coopjedi

Anyone with exp steam cleaning their motor ?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

My dry cleaner won't take my car..he says it bends the hangers.

Seriously though,there are tons of threads that are Up already and you can look into this further.
Also look into "seafoam".
A Member called Kentetsu swears by it.
You let the engine suck it up through a vacuum line and it does a good job too.
Note that these methods may knock off carbon and can ultimately make things worse than before so they are not a 'sure cure' for anything.
If the car was well maintained and not driven "granny style" then I would just leave it the way it is.
But it is your decision.

coopjedi

Thanks for the info

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Rotary Resurrection home of the budget rebuild.

mlhorn101

iTrader: (3)

Is there no threat of vapor locking the motor?

TruStinger

Vapor lock only occurs when there is excess vapor. You won't be dumping a whole can of seafoam in at one time. You turn the car on and the engine slowly sucks the seafoam in through the vacuum line.

mlhorn101

iTrader: (3)

Oh, I see so no threat of vapor lock, so do seafoam 1st then follow with distilled water?

mlhorn101

iTrader: (3)

How often should you do this type treatment?

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

I think you're asking about hydro-lock, not vapor lock. And the rotary by design can't really hydro-lock. The biggest danger IMO from water injestion to decarbon the combustion surface of the rotors is to a turbo engine. A piece large enough to damage the turbo could be dislodged.

I think vapor lock refers to a situation where fuel in a line exposed to alot of radiant heat 'vaporizes' within the line, causing a restriction in the flow. Not very common anymore with high-pressure EFI, but my old carb'd Chevy has suffered from it in the past on hot days.

I wouldn't do it any more than absolutely necessary. Certainly not as a matter or routine. Maybe if I suspected alot of carbon build-up on a new-to-me engine, or low compression from a suspected stuck hard seal.

mlhorn101

iTrader: (3)

Ok that makes sense, ty for the clarification. I was just gonna do it this one time prior to putting on the Apexi, new intercooler and wide band. And before I get car on Dyno and get it tuned.

Hesstopher

From what I've read the idea is distilled water first, then seafoam.

I did the distilled water through vac line today and there was a noticeable improvement. idle smoother, throttle more responsive, generally the engine sounds more healthy. Just be careful not to leave the vac hose on the water too long. dip in and back out quickly. It's better to error on not having enough water than too much... that way, worst case it just takes you longer to run 1 gal through the engine. On mine it was puffing black and gray smoke for about the first 2/3 gallon. Then that began to subside and it started backfiring a lot more. Just FYI, I removed my cats for this process just to be safe-- rather not gum them up with carbon leaving the engine.

I'm going to seafoam oil, vac and gasoline tomorrow. Run the car about 80-100 miles then change oil. The next tank of gas I'll add 1qt ATF fluid in addition to the 2 cyc oil I normally run to help lubricate and restore all the seals in the engine. New plugs and then my 13b is fully restored. short of a legit overhaul... that is about as good as it gets I'd think.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

Sorry..THAT WILL NOT WORK!
IF you add ATF to your Gas and you will get the FIRE DEPT out there to see WTF is making all that SMOKE.
Besides ATF Is not meant to BURN..
.......and it EATS Seals..

Do,water..do Seafoam..keep the damn ATF for what it is meant for..transmissions.

Hesstopher

For the record, I've done 1qt ATF to as little as 10gal gasoline and NEVER had it smoke. Many things are not meant to burn. My house for one-- water is not meant to go into the air intake of a car, but there are benefits of that... aren't there?

After some research to validate your position before I cite all the websites and places on the internet saying to do this...

The "ATF Trick": The Real Truth

There is the answer, and an explanation rather than just "don't" ATF in fuel isn't that big of a deal and won't ruin seals. It helps dissolve carbon build up BUT can foul plugs at the same time. The danger of introducing ATF into a rotary is that it might come to rest in the chambers which, as it eats carbon, will eat away at seals causing failure. Particularly prone to this failure is the O-Rings. This danger is not present in piston driven engines, although plug fowling can still occur.

So now that this is cleared up-- What do you suggest to use to recondition and prolong the life of internal seals?

Just a note: it is helpful to follow a format like
> state your position
> back it up with explanation
> offer alternative to arrive at desired end

Generally, that will be much better received and not induce people to aggressive responses which devolves into a pissing match and ends with phrases like "do-do head."



I did seafoam my oil, 1.5 oz to 1 qt oil Ran 50 miles on it and engine is even smoother now. oil pressure running slightly higher than normal but from what I read that is expected as the additive cleans sludge and water from the engine which thickens the oil. It is recommended that you not run over 200 miles before changing your oil and filter, most places I've read this practice on say change around 100 miles. These are figures for a piston engine and not rotary. Given my higher fuel pressure, I'm changing at 50 miles. I'd rather have some crap left over than risk damaging something on the engine. I added the remaining 7oz of sea foam to my gas once I was halfway through the tank to clean out fuel system. If you add without adding gas be sure to drive like a mad man and shake up your gas so it mixes. The best practice is to add it to the tank then add fuel behind it to aid in the mixing.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

Ya,ya..ok perfect ..Insert ATF ..IN the Engine's Spark Plug Holes,loosens Carbon Inside the ENGINE.
But,That is not the Point here.You are not Talking about the internals of the engine.

Having it go through your Entire FUEL system?..NO,apples and oranges. Injectors will suffer Fuel pump,rubber fuel lines.
So I disagree,and it's a free world no matter how I state it.

People think too much about these engines.It Farts and you automatically think Rebuild.
If it has good compression then leave it alone.If it has bad seal then it won't get magically fixed with a Miracle potion.It will need mechanical attention,not super glue.
I have had my car running 8 years without Blasting anything through the fuel system..I refuse to put **** in my fuel system.
8 years,that is a fact. NO seafoam,NO ATF,No jungle-juice in my Fuel.

SO,Cliff notes.
I stated my position.ATF is for Transmissions..(see label affixed to bottle)
Backed it up with: "put a hose in ATF and see what it does,.then get back to me on that"
Alternative: NO snake oil.NO ATF..in the fuel.

They do have 91 octane with additives.

So,to each is own.
You want to add stuff to your gas,it's your car.But the method is NOT proven by any standard IN the Fuel system,just in the ENGINE Internals.
That is why I must disagree and highly suggest others not to do it.

NOW,before this Thread gets knocked off it's perch,as YOU AND I are thread jacking the OP's thread.,IF you have anything to add I will gladly approve ANOTHER THREAD on this very subject.
It can get discussed in more detail in a thread that has nothing to do with WATER/MMO/ATF or other Alcohol or Caffeine based drinks inside cleaning the engine's internals.

(YES,Some Racer did use BLACK COFFEE to start their Car and it worked!)

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i agree somewhat, ATF is caustic to the fuel system and may do more harm than good by stripping the insides of the rubber lines and plugging the injectors with unecessary crap. rubber lines that carry detergents like ATF are designed specifically for detergents, fuel hose alternately does not work as a replacement for an automatic transmission hose, nor coolant hoses, they will swell and burst as they absorb the ATF.

if you have an engine that is smoking and already looking at a rebuild then it could alleviate the problem temporarily but only by injecting it into the engine outside the fuel system.

as for water, i haven't had any ill effects from internal steam cleaning treatments.

the fuel system rarely needs any attention. injectors rarey foul to the point of dangerous conditions for the engine and the leak/flooding myth only truly affects less than 1% of cars with actual flooding issues, usually it is compression related.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

IMO and experience water injestion is sufficient by itself to decarbon the combustion chambers. IF you absolutely want to put something else in with fuel, maybe MMO would be a better choice. It's as much a solvent as a lubricant and safe for fuel lines. But suspect that for any significant benefit it will have to be a long-term habit.
If you're looking for other alternatives to water-injestion and have a turbocharged car, I'd recommend a simple boost-activated water injection system. It will more gradually de-carbon as well as assist in cooling and knock control. Water's phase change takes much of the heat out with the exhaust, reducing heat stress on things like coolant seals. And with it, I chose to retain my working OMP along with pre-mixing oil (at a reduced rate) for additional hard seal lubrication and, hopefully, reduce housing wear. There is a AI/WI section on this forum with more info for doo-doo heads that are interested.

archaphil

iTrader: (1)

You know, I have seen this come up and wondered about it many times. My engine seems to run fine @ 166k miles, and still runs to red-line fine (go go carbon clean out!) I have been on the fence about doing this as the engine seems to run fine ( granted compression test yielded results indicating its getting due in the next 10k or so for a rebuild)

Seeing as we have 3 of the rotary wizards in this thread I figured it might be worth asking the ol "if It aint broke, don't fix it?" Should I do a distalled bath? or since it runs and idles fine, leave it? 166k+ on the ol girl

GSL-SE-S5

Ive only known of diesel engines being capable and unharmed by combusting ATF or motor oil, although having it thinned out with gasoline is a lil different....

Hesstopher

Not sure if I am one of those three, if you are counting me-- I don't think I am near deserving of that title, or any title. I am a newb as my name suggests.

That being said (standard disclaimer) you decide what is best for you, I offer my opinion and suggestion but I am not responsible for any damage that may occur, nor am I responsible for any lack of desired effects.

My take on the water carb removal hinges on what you use it for. I use my rx7 for track and be all in the top 2,000rpm most of the time. Given that stress and me trying to squeeze out power without compromising reliability I opted to do the water treatment. THAT BEING SAID, if you have your car as a daily driver, grocery getting, or trophy that you drive on the weekends and just put around in... I don't know that the water treatment is really worth the extra effort. If I were not tracking my car and using it to race in, I would not have done it. I'd also still have AC, softer suspension and an interior worth something.

I can attest there WILL BE water in your oil when you finish. My stance is, if I have to rebuild then so be it. But some people want to avoid a rebuild if possible. So if that makes your squeemish or you can't afford a rebuild on the off chance something goes wrong, then I'd suggest you not do the treatment. Hope that helps.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

well i should correct myself in one of the statements i made, decarboning could clean out the engine to the point that it could be dangerous for it if it is extremely high mileage.

i did have one customer with a car/engine that sat open to atmosphere for a few years, it rotated fine but it had dirt in the intake and upon cleaning it up and reassembling it there was a skip on one compression faces which was low.

after getting it running decently i did a water treatment on it but it didn't help the low compression face. after giving it back to the customer it ran fine for a few months but then one day he went to start it and "crunch", the engine locked up. i suspect a seal was marginal and extremely worn and rolled out of the rotor slot. but it may have done so even without the treatment.

some engines you just can't help from the outside without a teardown. the OEM 3 piece seals are notorious for rolling out of the rotor when mileage exceeds 160k.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Sounds like a 'No' archaphil.

And interesting info about the old 3 pc seals coming out of the grooves (worse than 2 pc versions w/high mileage). I'm tempted to ask why...but probably not smart enough to understand explanation anyway.

archaphil

iTrader: (1)

Thank you, I figured as much. I can still rush into a corner, Heel n toe out and red-line till the cows come home. I know I am only playing with fire at this mileage and current compression rates though. BUT, its a hell of a lot of fun! Even N/A S4 open Diff!

therealjonnyd

I steam clean my engine all the time, that's the only way I could really pinpoint where my oil leak was originating.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

here is a picture of the seals every FC/FD were built with:



the top long piece is the friction surface against the housing and it will wear and become shorter in height as times goes on.

as the engine rotates this seal also moves laterally in the rotor seal slot, the more wear it has the sloppier the seal and the rotor seal slot become.

add those 2 together and with enough mileage the seal tends to roll out of the rotor seal slot when you crank the engine or after a hard pull on deceleration as the seal relaxes against the decel side of the rotor and loses it's grip and falls out that way due to friction forces.

rotor tip to housing clearances are not equal throughout, so once the seal finds a convenient spot with the most clearance it will escape its confines.

a 2 piece seal combines the 2 long seals so the height is nearly doubled through the seal. this gives less "walk" in the seal laterally and allows it to utilize much more mileage before the above can be true.

early engines like the 12a never had this issue and is also why mazda eventually stopped selling the 3 piece seals regardless of their better sealing properties. in fact mazda used all the older failures to redesign the renesis to a more refined version that eliminated these sorts of problems, while it had other issues to cope with but that is another story. the renesis has alot of properties that were used in the 12a era, because they were the most bulletproof engine design, in some cases exceeding 400k miles on a single engine regardless of the much heavier/thicker seals tending to chew up the chrome housings before anything else gave up.

you will be hard pressed to ever find a set of 3 piece seals that ever made it over 250k miles before causing catastrophic engine damage.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Well damn...I DO understand. Thanks for taking the time to explain. I knew that wear was an issue with the 3 pc but had never heard of that particular issue before.
I remember what they look like because I replaced them (along with new housings) with 2 pc when I did my rebuild.