Need expert help. (S4)
01-13-13, 03:34 PM
#1
Need expert help. (S4)
Alright I'm in the middle of my build and I want to get 225- 250 HP out of a S4 N/a motor. Obviously I'll need an aftermarket manifold, exhaust, and air filter. I've already installed an electric fan. I want to keep a/c. I'm hoping to move redline up to between 8k-9k RPM. Not sure about what port style but either a large streetport or full bridgeport.
Now here's my question. Will the stock ECU be able to find idle with stock injectors and be able to pull at least 200HP out of the motor until I get a standalone? Or will I need to upgrade injectors, port sleeves, fuel pump/system, and standalone ECU and connectors?
If I need a fuel system, injectors, and ECU what are some good cheap ones you all recommend. Also, are my HP goals reasonable, what's the least amount of things I'll need to accomplish what I want?
Sorry for all the questions all.
Now here's my question. Will the stock ECU be able to find idle with stock injectors and be able to pull at least 200HP out of the motor until I get a standalone? Or will I need to upgrade injectors, port sleeves, fuel pump/system, and standalone ECU and connectors?
If I need a fuel system, injectors, and ECU what are some good cheap ones you all recommend. Also, are my HP goals reasonable, what's the least amount of things I'll need to accomplish what I want?
Sorry for all the questions all.
01-13-13, 05:11 PM
#2
01-13-13, 05:36 PM
#3
Well that sucks. What Would I need to make an n/a push that kind of power? Even 200 at the flywheel would be ok. I'd like to make my first mod build an n/a rather than doing a full TT swap or 6 port hybrid. If it's not reasonable then what kind of mods on a street ported engine will help get the most out of a stock ECU with a piggyback?
01-13-13, 07:02 PM
#5
It will indeed be a street car/ weekend warrior. The exhaust work will be done solely by me aside from the header (will go with racing beat performance n/a) Cats/ emissions will be gutted.
Last edited by jjandros; 01-13-13 at 07:04 PM. Reason: i'm dumb
01-13-13, 08:03 PM
#6
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OK, in that case you can forget about going NA because you will never pass your local emissions tests or noise restrictions with anything over 180hp.
Therefore, your best bet is to swap in a S4 TII engine. You can probably get away with up to about 200hp with the NA driveline, but you would want a full TII driveline for anything over that. Either way, I recommend that you obtain a TII ECU and get it upgraded by RTek. The level of RTek and fuel mods will depend on your power goals, and you can get a BNR turbo upgrade if needed. You will also need to decide on whether to stick with the stock intercooler and TII hood or use an aftermarket front-mounted intercooler. You will need a turbo exhaust, so don't bother with any NA exhaust mods for now.
See this link for some basics about the swap, and there is also some info in the 2nd Gen FAQ.
Rotary Resurrection home of the budget rebuild.
Therefore, your best bet is to swap in a S4 TII engine. You can probably get away with up to about 200hp with the NA driveline, but you would want a full TII driveline for anything over that. Either way, I recommend that you obtain a TII ECU and get it upgraded by RTek. The level of RTek and fuel mods will depend on your power goals, and you can get a BNR turbo upgrade if needed. You will also need to decide on whether to stick with the stock intercooler and TII hood or use an aftermarket front-mounted intercooler. You will need a turbo exhaust, so don't bother with any NA exhaust mods for now.
See this link for some basics about the swap, and there is also some info in the 2nd Gen FAQ.
Rotary Resurrection home of the budget rebuild.
01-13-13, 08:34 PM
#7
... I am a state inspector... I didn't wanna have to put that on the forum but there ya go. Any way I can keep it n/a now? lol. As a side note. Thank you for the info and the link becasue when I'm done with this build I'm selling my DD in order to but a TT.
Last edited by jjandros; 01-13-13 at 08:36 PM. Reason: add
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01-13-13, 11:56 PM
#8
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If you get caught falsifying the emissions tests then you face a fine of up to $250,000 and 2 years in prison. You would need to be one of the biggest idiots on the planet to risk that for a few extra hp. If you really want to be a criminal and risk jail time, then just rob a bank and use the money to buy a tricked-out 600hp FD RX-7.
01-14-13, 12:13 AM
#9
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If you get caught falsifying the emissions tests then you face a fine of up to $250,000 and 2 years in prison. You would need to be one of the biggest idiots on the planet to risk that for a few extra hp. If you really want to be a criminal and risk jail time, then just rob a bank and use the money to buy a tricked-out 600hp FD RX-7.
#2: ah man,my wife screwed around,so I hacked her and her boyfriend up in
little pieces.What are you in for?
#1: I fudged the Etest Documents on my Rx7 and got Nabbed.
#2:....Oh!......GUYS!..stay away from this Dude....he's carazzzayyy!
By the Way,I lied..I am not an Expert.
But ya,in all seriousness,it is just a car,so don't get involved with illegalities.It isn't worth it.
01-14-13, 07:17 AM
#11
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NC emission testing not for pre OBD 2
If you get caught falsifying the emissions tests then you face a fine of up to $250,000 and 2 years in prison. You would need to be one of the biggest idiots on the planet to risk that for a few extra hp. If you really want to be a criminal and risk jail time, then just rob a bank and use the money to buy a tricked-out 600hp FD RX-7.
The only emission related "testing" is a visual inspection to see if the engine/emission controls are in place and look pretty much stock.
Last edited by ncaudio; 01-14-13 at 07:22 AM.
01-14-13, 08:09 AM
#12
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S4 TII engine, transmission, ECU, all associated TII sensors, and complete drivetrain swap. Depending on how much "haggling", searching, and deals you're willing to search for... Along with a lot of patience... The entire swap could cost you anywhere from ~$1,800 to ~$4,500. Keep in mind, this is only a rough estimate.
The range I posted above is based on whether you're able to find a GREAT deal on everything or whether you'll have to replace, buy, or slightly upgrade any other parts. The final price will be determined by how thrifty and willing you are. Inspect, inspect, inspect! Don't just settle. Demand a compression test.
Japan2LA is a reputable rotary engine importer on this forum.
Obviously, upgrading will cost you more, but can be really fun!
Here's a good link that can give you an idea of what kind of HP to expect with certain upgrades. It has many recommendations for supporting modifications.
FC3S Pro: From Mild to Wild Engine/Power
The range I posted above is based on whether you're able to find a GREAT deal on everything or whether you'll have to replace, buy, or slightly upgrade any other parts. The final price will be determined by how thrifty and willing you are. Inspect, inspect, inspect! Don't just settle. Demand a compression test.
Japan2LA is a reputable rotary engine importer on this forum.
Obviously, upgrading will cost you more, but can be really fun!
Here's a good link that can give you an idea of what kind of HP to expect with certain upgrades. It has many recommendations for supporting modifications.
FC3S Pro: From Mild to Wild Engine/Power
01-14-13, 10:24 AM
#13
Not any more. Multiple threads in the 'bad guy' section and is now banned. He was the last good engine importer, but there really aren't any rotary knowledgeable ones left.
So unless you can go inspect the exact engine they are going to ship you, don't trust an engine importer. Not one I've heard of has honored their warranty on rotaries and many specifically say on their sites that warranty does not apply to rotary engines.
So unless you can go inspect the exact engine they are going to ship you, don't trust an engine importer. Not one I've heard of has honored their warranty on rotaries and many specifically say on their sites that warranty does not apply to rotary engines.
01-14-13, 01:03 PM
#14
NC does not do emission testing on pre OBD 2 cars so there is nothing to falisfy and no threat of fine/prison. they used to do the tailpipe sniffing and it was a real hassle with some cars, but they stopped doing it some years ago. For the older cars they only do safety inspection which is a mechanical checkout and can be fairly thorough, lookling at/testing suspension, checking tire tread depth, headlight alignment, horn etc.
The only emission related "testing" is a visual inspection to see if the engine/emission controls are in place and look pretty much stock.
The only emission related "testing" is a visual inspection to see if the engine/emission controls are in place and look pretty much stock.
As for turbo vs n/a I just want this build to be as basic as possible while getting as much power out of it as Realistcly possible.
01-14-13, 01:52 PM
#15
Check out this solid build using the best of mostly all stock parts. https://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-d...-port-1006884/ He gives a lot of info about his setup. It's about as good as you are going to get without going to a bridgeport. If I were building an NA engine, I'd stick pretty close to what he did.
IMO, once you go to bridgeporting, the ecu tuning and customized parts just don't justify the gains when doing a turbo has so much more potential. They are fun to play around with, but if you just care about power, go turbo.
IMO, once you go to bridgeporting, the ecu tuning and customized parts just don't justify the gains when doing a turbo has so much more potential. They are fun to play around with, but if you just care about power, go turbo.
01-14-13, 02:00 PM
#16
Check out this solid build using the best of mostly all stock parts. https://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-d...-port-1006884/ He gives a lot of info about his setup. It's about as good as you are going to get without going to a bridgeport. If I were building an NA engine, I'd stick pretty close to what he did.
IMO, once you go to bridgeporting, the ecu tuning and customized parts just don't justify the gains when doing a turbo has so much more potential. They are fun to play around with, but if you just care about power, go turbo.
IMO, once you go to bridgeporting, the ecu tuning and customized parts just don't justify the gains when doing a turbo has so much more potential. They are fun to play around with, but if you just care about power, go turbo.
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