rtrpowr

hey i just got a 1985 gsl-se bone stock the motor was just rebuilt but they could not get it to start so they put a new fuel pump in and it still wont start compression is good so its def ignition related, so i took the cap and rotor off and have no idea what im looking at, its def not a gm HEI lol. so anyway im not sure which coil pack is leading an what is trailing or what ever so any info on on the ignition system would be really helpful, thanx

rtrpowr

ok been messing with it. plug wires were all on the wrong plug and the coil wires to the wrong coils, got everything where it needs to be, and everything sparks and timing is set. im getting fuel at the line before in goes under the intake plenum, the car has sat for 4 years so i drained the gas from the tank and purged everything from the pump/ lines till i got good clean gas at the line up front, still no start, again good compression. injectors clogged? do you have to pull the whole intake off to get to them?

Arcane-Tweek

For me it's pretty obvious if fuel is making it's way into the motor by sniffing the exhaust. If that is the case you think it maybe super flooded out? I know my 86 flood super easy and then starting it back is a chore.

rtrpowr

Ive done the de flooding procedure twice now, the plugs are wet with brown gas so i guess there is still some bad gas in the system somewhere buti woul think it would at least give me a little spit sputter or stumble. I pulled the intake and the injectors were real dirty so i cleaned them verified all the fuel line and wire routing. Idk i would be happy if it would at least act like it wanted to start

Arcane-Tweek

Well I'm not expert, But my 86 Coupe floods super easy. And when it does it I usually end up going and un pluging the fuel pump and then cranking it. Which is a terrible idea. But my car floods like a beast, and it will crank with out the fuel pump. After being flooded. Which as I said is dangerous. Then I shut down and plug the fuel pump up, crank it up and go. It will still sputter for 10 sec, and smoke for 45 seconds. After that it's as though nothing happened.

Vercauteren Philippe

it is terrible my fc has the same problem, you might want to read these articles

Rotary Performance Technical Articles
Rotary Performance Technical Articles

never tried the prevention method cause car is under construction!!!
unflooding methodes work perfect easy as well as hard

rtrpowr

ok well ive been messing with it and my bro (hes the rotor head im new to it) told me to do the atf thing, so i took all the plugs out and put a **** ton of atf in there rotating the motor by hand and let it sit for like 24 hours to let everything soak, i cranked it with the plugs out to get as much atf out as i could then put it all back to gether and it fired, kinda ran then stalled. it wouldent stay running and was back firing, i cam the the realization that the little marks they put on the distributor for alignment arent quite exact, so i reset the distributor so i could get proper base timing with room to adjust either way and she fired right up. but now new problems have come up. so now whats happening is when it starts it goes up to about 3k slowly drops to 2k stays for a min and drops some more, when it goes below 2k it stars to get rough and after about 1500 it just stalls, iv set the tps. any ideas?

Arcane-Tweek

Yeah that shut down method works great for me. I just have flooded it out three times by newbing it up.

Well it sounds like you got it running, have you tried limping it around to get it up to operating temperature? Does shut down while at operating temperature? I am not familiar with the distributor setup at all, but are you timing it with a light?

Vercauteren Philippe

short circuit your initial set coupler adjust screw on top of the throttle body underneath a black cap
check TPS with a light

rtrpowr

well i havent even titled it yet so i havent driven it around, plus tire really like to dry rot here in phoenix and im surprised that they even hold air with the size of the cracks in the sidewalls. i havent set timing yet its just at base timing wich is zero. i checked and cleaned the bypass valve the air supply valve is brand new. i used a voltmeter to set the tps, it seems that the shop that i got it from was turning every adjustment screw they could find trying to get it to fire so i think that has alot to do with it, they were messing with the variable resistor fuel mixture thing behind the airbox. so as ive been messing its getting closer but i cant seem to find ant base settings for any of then and honestly i have no idea what some of them do, all my experience is with modern fuel injection where it just kinda does its thing or carbs the early fuel injection kinda confuses me. im gonna take some pics of the adjustments that im not sure of

rtrpowr

ok well here is what im lookin at, tell me if im right.

#1- throttle stop adjustment

#2- tps adjustment

#3- air bleed screw (idle speed adjustment)

#4- ??????? if you know what that does please tell me

Vercauteren Philippe

fast idle operation
at a temp of 25 degrees C 77 F the cam roller is alligned with second mark
isnt it a s5 engine ?
idle mixture turn the variabel resistor until you reach the highest possible rpm then turn the air adjust screw until your idle is about 750 remove jumper wire

rtrpowr

i think its an s3? its a 1985 Gsl-se, stock, so whatever the first generation of fuel injected 13b is. is there any other way to set the fast idle? its gonna be months before its 77 degrees outside. i just set the resistor to the service manual base setting ( .5-4.5 ohms)
it will idle ok around 1k but gets rough under that and when it is running there is an intermittent miss. i just ordered a cap, rotor, plugs, and wires, thought maybe throwing a tune up at it will help the contacts in the cap are pretty crappy, idk who the hell rebuilds a motor (in a shop) with out replacing that stuff.

Arcane-Tweek

I know shops that do that kind of work. It's a sad fact, I just avoid them if I even have work done for me.

rtrpowr

yeah its a damn shame because it gives honest mechanics (that would be me) a bad name, i used to work for a guy with a really bad reputation and it was really frustrating how i was "guilty by association" i guess you would call it. anyway, got bored and did the throttle body mod, it needed a cleaning anyway, still running the same, im really thinking the basic tune up will help, im also going to replace the battery cables they look pretty $h1tty. the positive starts to smoke if i crank it too much, lol

Swivel

Cap/rotor/wires are a good thing to do regardless.

Now that you have it running and idling in a reasonable fashion check around for small vacuum leaks again, those can be good for a stumble/random miss/not able to get idle low enough. Setting everything to the spec listed in the FSM should get you to where you need to be -- don't 2nd guess the settings at this point.

When I got my 83, she had been sitting for 10 years. I found after a couple days worth of
Italian Tuneups, she picked up power and the idle really smoothed out. Once you recheck all your settings, get the ignition tune up done and go over it with fine toothed comb for vacuum leaks, drive it -- drive the **** out of it.** I almost guarantee you she'll idle smoother (in much the same way that I almost guaranteed you she'd fire after the Battery Charge/ATF/Ether treatment).

** Considering you said it's a fresh rebuild, don't romp on it too hard as there may be some breaking in that still needs to be done.

rtrpowr

hahaha im such an a$$hole, i havent tried to fire it yet but i pulled the intake and cleaned the injectors before i ever got it to start, when i pulled it yesterday for the TB mod i noticed i had left the vacuum line that goes from the plenum to the rats nest off, i said to my self well **** thats def not helping, i did the mod put everything back together and it runs the same, i just thought about the damn line and i really dont think i put it back on...again... lol wow im gonna be stoked if thats all it is but then again pissed cuz ive been ******* with it for days. my parts dont come in till like wednesday so i gotta wait on that

rtrpowr

its never that easy is it

Vercauteren Philippe

How is your problem evolving? Temp is ambient (garage, evening) and just a guideline... If temp is a bit higher the cam roller is also a bit higher.
If operating temp is reached the cam and roller should have gap of 1 mm (0.04 inch) except for the water thermo valve there are no DIRECT setting for fast idle i guess check the pipe between BAC & water thermo valve

My opinion is your idle will become worse if you remove sec valves from TB

rtrpowr

i already took out the sec. butterflies. didnt really do much at all, im not too concerned with them it dont get that cold here. now as for how its going i did an ignition tune up and that has compleatly eliminated my random missfires. how ever i am still getting a surge and it seems to be running rich. i tested my vacuum solenoid vale wich was good and mt vent solenoid valve wich was bad (when you try and blow through it and put voltage thru it you can feel a kinda twitch but it never actually opens) so i bought one from somebody on here should be in within the next couple days and we will see where that goes. oh and does anyone know what direction to turn the variable resistor to lean or richen the mixture?

Vercauteren Philippe

when you turn the variable resistor and the idle:
- drops that is leaner
- rises that is richer

But can't you solve it with the air bleed screw?
The pre set mixture isn't designed to play with unless you own a diagnostic center.
After you set it last time did you seal it again with an adhesive?
Define too rich ? a bit too rich isn't too harmfull except $ the temp of combustion will be lower

rtrpowr

so counter clockwise - leaner/ clockwise-richer?
and no, the the air bleed screw wont do it, somebody was in there messing with the fuel mixture screw, i found a base setting in the manual but it still needs to be dialed in. and its way too rich, like fouled plugs and black smoke.

rtrpowr

ok so been busy, just got a new house and have been painting/cleaning so i havent really messed with the car too much, but tonight we are having alittle down time (at the "old" house) so i figured i would mess with the car and now its not doing even trying to run, went thru the usual found the injectors were not firing, WTF, the lat time i touched the car it ran for about 5 min as i was trying to smooth out the idle, the fusible links are good, what could possibly make that happen. i checked the wire to the computer way before when i was first trying to get it to run, and the trailing coil is firing. im seriously about a week away from giving up on this $hitty stone-aged EFI and throwing a carb on it till i can afford to do the Renesis w/ 6spd swap i want to do.