Here's an exact copy of the letter I received (via snail mail):

Dear Mr. Nasr,

"I don't really think about that. I just think about doing my job." --- It's a quote from a state trooper of a neighboring state who was recently awarded a medal for saving the life of a young boy injured in a car crash.

As a longtime Virginia State Trooper and the head of the Virginia State Police Association, this quote pretty much sums it up. It illustrates the attitude of the men and women who serve you as state troopers in Virginia and elsewhere.

I've said it before, if you ever wonder that your donation to the Virginia State Police Association is insignificant or in vain or not appreciated, stop wondering. Your contribution helps far more than you realize. Through your generosity we are able to assist Troopers, fellow police officers and their families in times of catastrophic needs such as sickness, fires and accidents; last year we awarded college scholarships to 57 children of Troopers; and, it allows us to present our needs to the General Assembly through full time representation before both Houses.

This spring, any contribution will receive our 2005 window support stickers. For a donation of $55 or more, we will include in your packet two additional window stickers, plus our chrome metal license plate frame and somethign new for us: our custom, black cast metal, high-intesity flashlight for your glove compartment.

The VSPA raises funds in two ways: Telemarketing services and this, our direct mail campaign. You have a choice in how you wish to contribue. Except to pay for the costs associated with getting this mail and your gifts to your home, your direct mail contribution goes directly to the VSPA to support your State Troopers.

Please call our Richmond office at (804) 320-6272 or visit our website at www.vspa.org if you have questions. On behalf of the state troopers serving the Commonwealth of Virginia, thank you for your continued concern and support.

Most Sincerely,

Ed Haith, Jr.
President/VSPA

 

And here is the response I typed up, and actually will send to them, save for a few modiciations and suggesstions from you guys

Two quick points tho: 1) This letter was addressed to my dad, so I'm writing it from his prespective, me being the son mentioned in this response, and yes he's cool w/ me writing and he signing this letter. 2) I purposefully tried to write this in a style mimicking the letter I received from them.

Thanks guys
~Ramy

Dear Mr. Haith,

"I don't really care. Tell it to the judge." --- It's a quote heard all too often from local officers and state troopers in the Commonwealth of Virginia, after initiating a traffic stop.

As a long time Virginia and Fairfax County resident, I think that quote pretty much sums it up. We live in one of the most affluent counties and states in the nation, yet face one of the most prominant and prevalent informal taxes in the form of purposefully under-rated speed limits, extravagant expenditure for extensive fleets of unmarked cruiser of various makes and models, helicopters and their expensive fuel for traffic enforcement, and often arrogant and abrasive police officers -- all this for local revenue generation, in one of the most peaceful and safe states in the nation.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, there's good and bad in everything. It just so happens that the bad is becoming increasingly overwhelming in the area where I reside (Fairfax County), and scores of people from all different backgrounds and walks of life in Virginia agree with me. The police resort to dirty tactics of entrapment, blatant lying in court, intimidation, and harrassment, all for the sake of generating revenue.

When an officer young enough to be my son or even grandson gives me an attitude for not following an obscure sign or simply making an innocent mistake, there is a problem. When my son is repeatedly profiled and harrassed simply because he is young and drives a high performance sports car, yet is found innocent in virtually every single court appearance, there is a problem. When the State imposes $1000 fines for driving in an HOV lane, or $2500 fines and JAILTIME for going 20mph over the speed limit (which is a mere speeding ticket in the majority of other states), and officers willingly support and enforce this, there is a problem. When officers refuse to listen to explanations or issue warnings, thus focusing on the financial aspect and not the educational and safety aspect of traffic enforcement, there is a problem.

Unlike officers who have nicely scheduled court appearances, I have to cancel appointments with sick patients that need my urgent attention, fight through horrendous inner-city traffic to get to a courthouse simply overflowing with petty violations and nitpicking officers, and plead my case to a Judge who soon realizes that 30 seconds of an open mind and a free ear could have saved us all a huge hassle, not to mention a bogus ticket.

And unlike the officers we consistantly deal with, when my son - an aspiring trauma surgeon - receives an injured and traumatized patient (which often includes police officers), he doesn't attempt to find fault and lay blame, because his job is to help save lives. He does not care whether injuries were caused by recklessness or of no fault, nor does he look to one's skin color, ethnic background, or type of car before deciding whether or not to intervene immediately to save a life.

You see, as doctors, we aim to listen, understand, respect, and educate, without simply "doing our job" and being intimidating an impersonal. In fact, we too have the ability to "raise local revenue" by ordering unncessary test and labwork, adding to your lost hours on the job, and increasing your bill. Yet we know how unfair and unjust this is, and try to treat people as best we can - as we would like to be treated ourselves.

The point of this letter is simple: there is a reason why I readily empty my pocket when the local fire department is fundraising, yet I won't even attempt to reach for my wallet when the VSPA is soliciting funds. This should not come as a surprise to you, being that officers in Virginia forcefully take my money - be it directly from my wallet in the form of a bogus ticket, indirectly from my job by time lost in a court apperance, and even prospectively by insurance premium increases, simply because officers have become too narrow-minded, judgemental, arrogant, and unforgiving.

With great power comes great responsibility, and it is my humble opinion that the VSPA on the whole has failed severely in maintaing its power in a positive, helpful, and constructive manner. We can donate to scholarships and hospitals directly; donating to the very police organizations that will lobby for more money, equipment, and power to pull even more money out of our pockets would be irrational, to say the least. That's why I hope you understand my firm refusal in aid the VSPA in any way, and encouragement of others to follow in my footsteps as well.

I also hope you take this letter under serious advisory, as I know countless others like myself that are simply fed up with the current situation, and would be more than willing to take major steps to improve it. With that said, please keep in mind one of the quotes etched in stone in our nation's capital, "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance." For as you teach your fellow officers how to point their finger on the radar gun at us, remember that four more point back at them. Indeed, no change will befall a people until they change what is in themselves. We will try to drive more carefully, and hope that your officers act more respectfully and responsibly.

Respectfully yours,

Dr. Nasr, MD

 

doctors are are just as bad as cops
some good and some who just do not give a **** and just want money
From reading this its like when you go to a doctors office,fill out the same form you
have filled out at least 10 times before,wait a half hour in the waiting room,then another half hour in the room waiting for the doctor,he or she finaly comes in, you get a prescription after talking to you for 3 minutes ---then you get the bill in the mail and they have either charged you or your insurance company 300.00 for a 3 minute visit---hmmm--
Sorry bro but I am not felling your letter.

 

Well there's a difference IMO. A big one at that.

1) On the whole, I don't think most docs are out to get you. Most actually care for your health.

2) Docs really don't have control over prices. They're in a Catch 22. Do too few tests, you'll sue 'em when they miss something. Do too many tests, insurance won't pay. It's a tough spot. And we're talking about lives on the line. Traffic enforcement isn't exactly of the same caliber or seriousness IMO

3) Prices are high because of the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. Doctors actually have lobbies AGAINST these organizations. Traffic fines are high because of the State, and cops lobby FOR the state. Big difference. Who encourages it, vs who fights it?

4) I'm not trying to make it a doctor vs cop thing. It's really not about who's better. I hope that's not what you got out of the letter. It was merely saying why I don't want to pay you, keeping in mind I CAN do the same thing you're doing, but I don't. That's all.

 

"When the State imposes $1000 fines for driving in an HOV lane, or $2500 fines and JAILTIME for going 20mph over the speed limit (which is a mere speeding ticket in the majority of other states)"

i agree with you on most of the stuff, but thats a little out there. 20 mph over? that deserves some punishment besides a slap on the wrist. if you dont slap a huge fine on a HOV lane vilolator, how do you keep traffic flowing, because you know people will do it anyones. "oh its a $10 ticket, no big deal".

 

20 mph over is NOTHING! Turn in your RX-7 at the nearest car dealership and buy a Kia.

*edit* Not saying 20 mph shouldn't be a ticket, but not 2500/6 months jail. More like oh... 500 MAX fine (if you're being a real jackass) and no jail.

 

Thanks for the good point. I thought about that before I wrote it...and here's my issue.

Other states classify speeding as speeding. End of story. If the cop's real pissed, he can take you to jail that night. In VA though, 20 over is reckless driving, which is a class I misdemeanor (ie it's as serious as a DUI!!!) I don't think ANY other state takes speeding THAT seriously. It's a mandatory court apperance, $2500 max fine, 6 months max license suspension, 1 year max in jail. I think that's wayy more than a slap on the wrist. That's taking it too far.

About the HOV, point well taken. I guess I should add a line about instead of imposing such high fines on HOV lanes, why not use the incredible amount of revenue generated to better the dire traffic jam situation we have (which is why people violate HOV laws, out of necessity of getting to work in less than 2 hours), rather than taking that revenue and putting it toward the current Fairfax County General District Court in a $94.5 MILLION expansion, simply to handle more traffic tickets...

 

I know a friend from NY where they have similar things, except instead of a sticker it's a card. You get pulled over and flash your card that says that you donated such and such and the cop is fairly lenient and will likely let you off with a warning (depending on the situation of course). Is that how this sticker works as well? If that's the case it may be easier in the long run just to give in. Either way I admire the stance you've taken and think you've made some good points.

When I have to deal with the police in CA, I'm always polite and curtious with officers when I get pulled over and a lot of the time I'm let off with a warning. When I do get those officers that pull me over for non moving violations (pull me over for noise, or mods, etc...) there the ones that aren't likely to be swayed with kind words anyways so I try to be as much of an *** as possible without pushing the limits.

I think that loudazzrx7 makes a good point as well, and his arguement is relevant since you're making it apparent in your letter that you are a doctor, and flexing your social status (whether intentionally or not).

All that said, you got some ***** sending that in Ramy considering they probably have a profile on your RX-7 already . Let us know what there response is if any...

 

Man this is a great one--good job fdnewbie
We actually have something in the northeast section thats worth reading!!!!!
And I do mean that.
You do make alot of good points,I didnt mean to turn it into a doctor vrs cop thing
I just hate the doctors office--lol

 

BlueRex, yes, the stickers supposedly work the same...that's why people put them on the rear passenger window, on the driver side. But I think that's such BS. That's like legal bribery lol.

Regarding being an *** when you can be lol...Dave (FD3Boost) once told me something that I loved...he said he's always super nice and what not when he gets pulled over, but once he knows he's getting a ticket, he makes sure he gives the cops a peice of his mind lol. Hey, at that point, you might as well. Only reason I don't do that is I'm afraid of the "hmm...why don't you step outside and pop the hood while you're at it" or "You know what son? I think you don't have cats on this car...whadda you say we find out if I'm right?" lol

Honestly, my point wasn't to flex my "social status" (plz...you swear a job makes you a better person. A dishonest doc is still a dishonest bastard in my book lol). I was just trying to parallel his situation w/ mine, saying that I could do what you do, and I have the power to, but I DON'T.

And trust me Jason, had you lives in Fairfax County, you'd be as fed up as I am.

loudazzrx7, I feel you man. Everyone dreads bad news, pointy needles, poking and prodding, and dropping their pants LOL. And on the same token, just the other day I was in line to get some food, and two cops were in front of me, and they had bulletproof vests on (I could see the outline underneath their shirts). I talked w/ the cop for a few, and I was amazed that they wear them all the time, every day...esp in such a safe area. I had so much respect for them willing to put their life on the line like that...cuz the severity of it (needing a vest all the time) just struck me. But of course, that feeling was quickly erased when I remembered just how pompous and egotistical most high patrolmen are

 

Basically...

Yep, most likely I'd agree with the statement you made, "...as I know countless others like myself that are simply fed up with the current situation, and would be more than willing to take major steps to improve it."

 

Traffic cops suffer from very bad case of " GOD SYNDROME"

FDNEWBIE.. in your letter.. you should write something like..
" I donate to the Va POLICE " Every year, its called.
STATE INCOME TAX. and that you are very displeased, that
VA peoples taxes are funding people like you solicit money,
when you could be out fighting crime.

I feel so bad for you folks in Fairfax county and up and down 66.

 

Go for it Ramy. I hate those *************. I just got yanked on the toll rd. last week doing 76 in a 55 by the airport police. The guy was in the airport lane and said he was pacing me. Complete horse ****. There is a huge jersey wall in that section I even questioned him and he said he could see the top of my car. F'n doucebag. He went through the bus lane and got in behind me and pulled me over. He then took his sweet *** time then walked around my car looking for something else he could write a ticket for. I can't wait to go to court and take this ******* down. Good thing my wife is an attorney. I'm so sick of this crap. Fight some real crime and leave the tax paying working class alone while in route to work.

 

Ramy makes some great points. Virginia state and its revenue hungry legislators are out of hand. If you get two reckless driving tickets you are on thin ice...the third one and you are a felon. They are also trying to pass legislation so you not only have to pay court costs and fines but up to 950. to DMV. The laws really got tough last June. Think about it, if you are traveling 75 in a 55 or 80 in a 65 as most traffic doesthat's reckless.

I also thought our taxes paid for services such as the state police? The state wants to raise you personal property taxes through the roof and then local and state municipalities cry for poverty. The problem is the legislators don't know how to manage the money they collect with the correct priorities. I'm about one step from moving out of this redneck state.

I am wondering if those stickers and tags for donations are similar to the 1099 CHP club in California. If you notice the real high dollar vehicles (Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc.) in Cali all sport the tag. It is similar to a free pass on violations up to a point...Might be worth the 55.00 in Va.

 

go fdnewbie!!!

But 20mph over = jailtime is just rediculous, they need to change that law! I got a ticket for going 26mph over (but I got it dismissed ) and it was like a 250+$ fine and points. Although the points would have made me lose my license since I was under 18.

 

Stop playing..

that is totally ridiculous.
so if you get caught speeding over 20mph(which happens every day allday)
going the speed limit, can get you shot or run over.
the 3rd violation you become a FELON??

Lose you rright to VOTE?? and etc?? its unbelievable..

VA turning seems to be turning into a communitst state.

I bet if someone ran for VA political office against the establishment
and beaurocratic BS.. they would get alot of votes.

 

BTW.. if any of you are lawyers or law school folks..
I think VA motor vehcicle laws are UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
wonder how it would shake out if you challenged these
motorvehicle laws in court.

 

Man I love talking about cops and tickets. I could seriously go one for hours. I have a total of 22 points on my driving record. I am 28. I did not get my first ticket until I was 21. I have been through everything Maryland wants to punish speeders with. DIP class, Suspended license and every other random thing they thought would slow me down. I have beat three speeding tickets in court. I used to just pay the fine. After I kept getting them I just decided to stat fighting them in court. I feel bad for you guys in Va. Here in Chuck county Md. you can usually get off light so long as its a county boy who gets you. If the state troopers pull you over its a definite court appearance.
Ramy, I am serious about what you mentioned me saying. I was once zapped by a county boy in my 3rd gen doing 90 in a 55 on an empty section of U.S.301 down by Budds creek. I saw him about a mile back with the lights on. I knew he was coming for me so I pulled over to the shoulder and waited. When he got there him and his partner both approached me with guns drawn. He said you know why I stopped you? I say no why ( never admit guilt) He says he got me at 90 yadda yadda. So I ask to see the radar gun and the current certification papers if he didn't mind. He laughed a bit said no. Then goes to his sqaud car. Comes back in a few and then gets me to sign the warning. Yes homeboy let me go. Thats one of the nice things about living in the out in the sticks. We dont necessarily get treated like a revenue. ****, I went to school with half of those *******.

I agree with everything you mentioned in your letter Ramy and I hope you get someones attention with it. I think if more people would speak up you would not be dealing with the problems that you do in Va. in regards to the tickets and fines. Don't even get me started with the red light cameras...

 

they **** you in the hospital!!
did I mention how cell phones **** ya--sorry
I had a lethal weapon flash back

 

Good job. I do see a few minor grammatical points and will be glad to proof the final version. Since the VSPA is an association without power to directly regulate the actions of individual troopers, it It makes sense to focus on the lobbying power of the VSPA, and secondarily the informal influence they have on the trooper members.

Unfortunately, I don't have specific information on exactly which bills the VSPA lobbyists influenced, other than those related to trooper retirement and benefits. But I do know they weigh in on many, and have a very strong influence. Some of our "favorite" laws are most likely supported by the VSPA. When I was chatting recently with the SEMA lobbist, he mentioned the power of the police lobbies as a big factor to consider in trying to change the exhaust laws. If I had the time, I would talk to my legislators and those on the transportation committees, asking them about what input they hear from the VSPA. (I'll try to do this if I run into them somewhere.) By the way, for those who don't know it, laws are often actually drafted or written by a third party such as a trade association or the like, and then introduced to the legislature by a senator/delegate/representative friendly to the cause.

Among the most infuriating practices I see from the police are "selective enforcement," and blatant law violations in their own driving. By selective enforcement, I mean not just selective enforcement in profiling people such as yourself, but selecting which laws to actually enforce. There are many safe-driving laws on the books which the police never enforce, and which they themselves also routinely violate. Violations of laws that mandate signalling before a lane change, and keeping to the right except to pass are routinely ignored by the police. And how often do you see police speeding, driving in the left-hand lane, failing to signal, and running yellow lights and stop signs?

About a month ago, one of Fairfax's finest was driving next to me in a lane which merged onto I-95. Without signalling or turning on his lights, he decided to cut in front of me and back onto the main road, in order to pull over the car ahead of me for an expired license plate. If anyone else had made that same maneuver, you can bet they would have gotten a reckless driving ticket. A while back, another county officer went through a red light in front of me (without turning on his lights) and caused an accident. In spite of several witnesses' statements, the cop was cleared by his colleagues who investigated.

No, it's far too easy for the police to simply drive like they own the road, eat their doughnuts, and write speeding tickets (knowing their honesty will never be questioned in court). When I lived in England, the police didn't really bother you for speeding if you were otherwise driving safely, and if the car itself was up to the task. I doubt that policy would work in this country, but the police could at least recognize what really causes accidents, and obey the laws in their own driving.

You hit the nail on the head with the reference to cop's "attitude." Not every cop, but I wouldn't say a minority either, has an "attitude." They think they are above the law,...and they are correct. Ironically, not only do they pick and choose which laws to enforce, how to enforce them, and which individuals or groups to target, but they indirectly write the laws, through the lobbying efforts of the VSPA and their other police groups.

Speaking of attitude: Who isn't sick of constantly hearing that bovine excrement line about cops "putting their lives on the line..."? They repeat that spiel to justify everyting from basic rudeness to civil rights violations, lying under oath, and even murder. When judges and prosecutors (e.g Fairfax Co.'s Horan) let these cops routinely get away with perjury and murder, it is easy to see how their attitude and behavior is reinforced.

In contrast, many professions, (including doctors) risk their lives to help other people, yet they don't cop an attitude. I risked my life many times in the Air Force--in more dangerous situations than those cops will have in an entire career. All so they can have gasoline to keep their cars idling and stay warm while drinking coffee and swapping politically incorrect jokes on cold nights...waiting for their next victim.

Anyway, back to the letter...

 

I know it probably felt good to vent but your letter will probably go no further
than a tele-marketer.

Very few police departments still solicit funds through the mail or telemarketers.

In Pa., the state troopers association recently sued a few of these similar sounding groups to stop soliciting.

Pennsylvania stopped doing these solicitations 30 yrs ago.

 

If you don't want a ticket in the HOV lane, don't drive there. If you don't want a ticket for going 20 mph over the limit don't drive that fast. Its funny, I follow the law and I have no points. Wow its funny when you do the right thing, it all works out. Stop bitching about they are doing to you, see what your doing to cause this. I know there are a few ball busters out there, so don't give them a reason.
My 2 Cents

 

Is that what you would say to Prince Jones, if he were still alive?

 

What they are talking about has nothing to do with Prince Jones! This is about him wanting to go over the speed limit and the HOV crap hes crying about. Look I'm not going to justify the shooting of anyone, the old wrong place at wrong time stuff. All this thread is about is kid who's crying that he can't speed or drive the way HE wants without being pulled over. Like I said, there are ball busters out there, just don't do something to get them pissed.

 

I've been pretty lucky in the aftermath of my traffic violations. My first violation at the age of 17 was for 96 in a 60. It was most definately my own fault as I was just a little to excited about my cars ability to stick to the road through an on ramp with a posted speed advisory of 45 mph. By the last several feet of the ramp I saw the cops care sitting next to some trees and immediately got on the brakes. By the time I hit the highway his lights were on and he was making his way out of the grass. I know I was well over 96 and was acting on immaturity. I got a $300 ticket, some points, and a nice insurance increase for my parents. This was enought to help drive more responsibly for a little over a year. I didn't need jail time or the loss of thousand dollars to learn from that experience. The punishments should fit the crime and situation. That cop understood why I was driving like that and understood that I was scared shitless was he came to the window and exacted a fitting punishment that would teach me not to do that again.

That held up well until riding with some friends down a long stretch of road in south florida coming from a drag racing event at moroso when only 1 month from turning 19. I knew better than to follow along with these friends who were clearly excited about the racing that we watched earlier. However, my invalid justifacation for following along with them was that I had no idea where I was or how to get home since I followed them out there. I followed them down the highway passed an F-250 crew cab loaded with special weapons and tactics officers at a few mph short of triple the speed limit. There is absolutely no justification for going that fast at any moment in time on a public highway. The realization hit me with force of an impact with the side of a mountain at the speed I was traveling the moment I saw the lights from the truck come on. I knew and was ready to except the jail time and permenant loss of a driving license that I was sure was headed my way, but for whatever reason, maybe because it wasnt their job to issue a punishment, maybe the traffic cops in the area were all tied up pulling over other youngsters leaving the event, the grace of God is definately in there somewhere, but I recieved a 45 minute panic session, being spread out over my car while 30+ cars passed at less than 20mph many of them laughing, the thought of being pulled over by officers with bullet proof vest, night vision googles, mini-submachine guns and an assault shotgun (and an F-250 capable of catching my car doing those speeds). No ticket, no jail time however since that day I can not recall a single moment driving of driving about 10 mph over the speed limit. Lesson learned by an appropriate punishment given the situation (I know it shoould have been even more harsh). I was young and immature and have grown without jail time or $20,000 in fines.

End result... you have my support and punishments should fit the crime not the current fund raising efforts.