KDR Performance
08-01-06 | 06:39 AM
#26
I've had good and bad with Dave and Kim. Most of the bad was related to his employees, which I hope are fired from now. I wish they returned my phone calls, but I think Skip? had something against me. Oh well.
08-01-06 | 06:56 AM
#27
Thread Starter
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 128
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From: CT
Originally Posted by budfc3s
i was there when your car was on the dyno........very nice.....sadly once we hooked my car up to the dyno my rear compression was bad..........left the car there to get the rear half rebuilt since the front half is already rebuilt.
08-01-06 | 07:31 AM
#28
Originally Posted by 4CN Air
I have nothing but good things to say about Dave. Unfortunatly I didn't find him until after I wasted a lot of time at RX7 Store. You want cheap parts, buy them from RX7Store, you want good tuning, go to Dave.
He spent hours on my car, and charged less than HALF what Jason @ RX7 Store charges for his guesswork. Well worth the 3 hour trip in the dead of winter with no heat and not being able to boost (new engine).
I wish Sevenspeed was still around, I had the pleasure of meeting one of it's previous owners, very knowledgable guy.
I haven't had any experiences with PFS (although I hear it's expensive).
I'll be having Mr Kan take a look at my car once it's totally done (so there will be no need for a retune), then I'll keep the MAP with the best results.
He spent hours on my car, and charged less than HALF what Jason @ RX7 Store charges for his guesswork. Well worth the 3 hour trip in the dead of winter with no heat and not being able to boost (new engine).
I wish Sevenspeed was still around, I had the pleasure of meeting one of it's previous owners, very knowledgable guy.
I haven't had any experiences with PFS (although I hear it's expensive).
I'll be having Mr Kan take a look at my car once it's totally done (so there will be no need for a retune), then I'll keep the MAP with the best results.
Wasted time? What exactly was wrong with your car that we couldnt fix? I find that hard to believe.
Jason
08-01-06 | 07:43 AM
#29
HOOAH!!
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 307
Likes: 6
From: Haymarket, Virginia
Originally Posted by Nuvolari
I have had all four major shops in the area work on my FD at some point over the past six years . All are good shops and many of the "blow them up " stories are bull **** at every shop. Dave really is a decent guy and runs a very fair business.
KDR did fantastic work on my t78 kit and tuned me to 440rwhp at 15psi, not bad ! The fuel system is nasty and anyone in the NE forum thats seen my car in person knows its top quality work.
KDR did fantastic work on my t78 kit and tuned me to 440rwhp at 15psi, not bad ! The fuel system is nasty and anyone in the NE forum thats seen my car in person knows its top quality work.
08-01-06 | 10:00 AM
#30
LOL
No I am not showing off, but its bull **** when people bash KDR and havent seen Dave's work. Alot of old horror stories and we all know every rotary shop in the area have there own.
Recently I saw so many Fd's at KDR and PFS that were beat to ****. I know the cars are over 10 years old but when people bring these guys a pile of **** they can only do so much. So I take the horror stories I read in context.
Working with Dave was a easy and I got exactly what I asked done.
93vrfd3s : You know my car and you know how good a job was done on my motor and tune at KDR .
No I am not showing off, but its bull **** when people bash KDR and havent seen Dave's work. Alot of old horror stories and we all know every rotary shop in the area have there own.
Recently I saw so many Fd's at KDR and PFS that were beat to ****. I know the cars are over 10 years old but when people bring these guys a pile of **** they can only do so much. So I take the horror stories I read in context.
Working with Dave was a easy and I got exactly what I asked done.
93vrfd3s : You know my car and you know how good a job was done on my motor and tune at KDR .
08-01-06 | 10:31 AM
#31
Every shop, mechanic, and tuner in the country have some sort of negative story out there about them from somebody, and some of them are true. **** happens. These are complicated cars, and Nuvolari is right... that's further complicated by the attitudes and means of many FD owners. I've you've been on the forum a while you know what a bunch of cheapskate champagne-taste-beer-budget guys we've got here. Guys that don't want to take good advice when they hear it because they don't like that it'll cost them money or not look "blingy".
I think some guys have an over-developed sense of what constitutes somebody else's "fault" too. Dave is one of ther good guys. Not perfect, but one of the good guys.
I think some guys have an over-developed sense of what constitutes somebody else's "fault" too. Dave is one of ther good guys. Not perfect, but one of the good guys.
08-01-06 | 11:14 AM
#32
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 22
From: CT
Originally Posted by pluto
where is the link that you mentioned about someone having issues with my tuning?
thus anyone reading this could see the value in a local tuner.
Last edited by matty; 08-01-06 at 11:26 AM.
08-01-06 | 11:17 AM
#33
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 22
From: CT
dave is awesome, he is a good honest man. has he had problems in past working on people's pieces of **** that they want to make 500rwhp? sure has. who cares. things happend. especially when u are tuning with that purple pfs. i think that could have been the real problem back in the day. seemed to me more cars blew up then vs guys running the power fc. Thats not the point though. the pt is that after serving thousands of customers you are goign to have those few that arent happy. the problem is that those few just love to talk **** all over three different forums for 10 yr now.
08-01-06 | 11:57 AM
#34
What makes you think he couldn't "tune right the first time"?
Originally Posted by matty
u have an awesome reputation. but u mean to tell me that u tuned everyones car right the first time? how bad would it suck for a customer, that pays $500 for a tune that isnt 100%, only for the tuner to go back home 2k miles away. whats the recourse? oh sorry, i will get you next time?
thus anyone reading this could see the value in a local tuner.
thus anyone reading this could see the value in a local tuner.
08-01-06 | 01:03 PM
#37
Rotary Freak
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,926
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From: fort worth, tx, usa
I never said that I could do it right the first time 100% of the time. Majority of the problems were due to mechanical issues and/or electrical issues that I wasn't able to help fixed while tuning it. Out of the 400+ cars that I have tuned, I could only think of about 5-7 cars that actually blew up while tuning it. half of them were due to mechanical issues (manual boost control spiking over 20+psi). There were also cars that was in such a bad shape that there was noway for me to do anything to fix it. You have to remember that I'm providing a tuning service, not a mechanic/tuning service. I usually do more than needed to get most cars running like they should.
Either way, cars that I can't tune. I usually only charge them 1/2 price and recommended them on what to look for to fix the problem. I usually only give up on a car if I spend more than 2-3 hrs on it and the problem doesn't go away. I usually tune to the limitation of their mods, I would tell them what needs done in the future in order to go higher.
I don't think I recall one time that I would just tell the customer, "sorry I can't tune your car" and take their money from them. I always try my best to do whatever I can to get as much done until it was way too problematic to finish the project.
Either way, cars that I can't tune. I usually only charge them 1/2 price and recommended them on what to look for to fix the problem. I usually only give up on a car if I spend more than 2-3 hrs on it and the problem doesn't go away. I usually tune to the limitation of their mods, I would tell them what needs done in the future in order to go higher.
I don't think I recall one time that I would just tell the customer, "sorry I can't tune your car" and take their money from them. I always try my best to do whatever I can to get as much done until it was way too problematic to finish the project.
Originally Posted by matty
u have an awesome reputation. but u mean to tell me that u tuned everyones car right the first time? how bad would it suck for a customer, that pays $500 for a tune that isnt 100%, only for the tuner to go back home 2k miles away. whats the recourse? oh sorry, i will get you next time?
thus anyone reading this could see the value in a local tuner.
thus anyone reading this could see the value in a local tuner.
08-01-06 | 01:14 PM
#38
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
From: zionsville, Pa
fc
Originally Posted by FDTT19
Hey, sorry to hear about your car but let me know how everything goes after the rebuild, your FC was sweet.
08-01-06 | 01:34 PM
#39
pluto (Steve) i respect you coming on here and explaining yourself. it shows a lot of integrity and pride in what you do. most people appreciate it more then if you were to come back here and bash owners (as some tuners would do) and their cars. my only question though, is what do you do if a customer gets their car tuned by you, but has a unforseen problem due to tuning further down the road? i would love to get my car tuned by you, as you come highly reccomended, but that is the only thing holding me back from doing it. i like knowing that i'd have KDR there (well 5 hours away) if anything happens, to fix any problems that may come up after tuning. and please, i dont mean any disrespect to you or your work, just a concern of mine.
08-01-06 | 01:37 PM
#40
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 22
From: CT
yeah its funny how i never heard of any of the complaints from the 5-7 guys that u mentioned. and let me tell u i spend alot of time on here. the point that i am making is that the small % that went wrong for dave choose to be very very ******* vocal for 10 yrs now. i am sure u know what i am talking about. basically what i have deduced is that these individuals behaved the way they did b/c they were in cahoots with other local tuners.
also what i was saying wasnt hat u would take money from them knowing u cant tune their car. my point was to express the benefit of having a local tuner vs a guy that flies in once every 2 yrs. what i was trying to articulate was what happens in situations where u tune a car then the customer notices say a lean spot or some drivability problems after u leave? how does that get solved?
also what i was saying wasnt hat u would take money from them knowing u cant tune their car. my point was to express the benefit of having a local tuner vs a guy that flies in once every 2 yrs. what i was trying to articulate was what happens in situations where u tune a car then the customer notices say a lean spot or some drivability problems after u leave? how does that get solved?
Originally Posted by pluto
I never said that I could do it right the first time 100% of the time. Majority of the problems were due to mechanical issues and/or electrical issues that I wasn't able to help fixed while tuning it. Out of the 400+ cars that I have tuned, I could only think of about 5-7 cars that actually blew up while tuning it. half of them were due to mechanical issues (manual boost control spiking over 20+psi). There were also cars that was in such a bad shape that there was noway for me to do anything to fix it. You have to remember that I'm providing a tuning service, not a mechanic/tuning service. I usually do more than needed to get most cars running like they should.
Either way, cars that I can't tune. I usually only charge them 1/2 price and recommended them on what to look for to fix the problem. I usually only give up on a car if I spend more than 2-3 hrs on it and the problem doesn't go away. I usually tune to the limitation of their mods, I would tell them what needs done in the future in order to go higher.
I don't think I recall one time that I would just tell the customer, "sorry I can't tune your car" and take their money from them. I always try my best to do whatever I can to get as much done until it was way too problematic to finish the project.
Either way, cars that I can't tune. I usually only charge them 1/2 price and recommended them on what to look for to fix the problem. I usually only give up on a car if I spend more than 2-3 hrs on it and the problem doesn't go away. I usually tune to the limitation of their mods, I would tell them what needs done in the future in order to go higher.
I don't think I recall one time that I would just tell the customer, "sorry I can't tune your car" and take their money from them. I always try my best to do whatever I can to get as much done until it was way too problematic to finish the project.
08-01-06 | 01:38 PM
#41
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 22
From: CT
Originally Posted by ZumspdRX-7
pluto (Steve) i respect you coming on here and explaining yourself. it shows a lot of integrity and pride in what you do. most people appreciate it more then if you were to come back here and bash owners (as some tuners would do) and their cars. my only question though, is what do you do if a customer gets their car tuned by you, but has a unforseen problem due to tuning further down the road? i would love to get my car tuned by you, as you come highly reccomended, but that is the only thing holding me back from doing it. i like knowing that i'd have KDR there (well 5 hours away) if anything happens, to fix any problems that may come up after tuning. and please, i dont mean any disrespect to you or your work, just a concern of mine.
right this is a very valid concern. when u go for big rwhp. u will likely need "something" when u get on the dyno. this soemthing is gonna cause u to run less boost then u want or ignition break up....soemthing. having a guy like dave around allows u to work things out as they come. rather than waiting for 2 yrs
Last edited by matty; 08-01-06 at 01:40 PM.
08-01-06 | 01:38 PM
#42
Matty,
I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to agree with Steve on this one. I've organized three or four tuning sessions for Steve and been to countless others, and every time he does everything in his power to take care of the customer. Obviously he could just turn them away, but always he jumps in the engine bay to see if he can fix the problem. Obviously this isn't a thread about Steves tuning or Steve at all, which is why I don't even know why he was brought into a thread about KDR.
Zum,
I don't see what problem would result down the road from a tune, maybe an idle problem? If you mod your car further down the road then you'd obviously need a re-tune. You could either wait for Steve to be in the area or have KDR or PFS tune it.
I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to agree with Steve on this one. I've organized three or four tuning sessions for Steve and been to countless others, and every time he does everything in his power to take care of the customer. Obviously he could just turn them away, but always he jumps in the engine bay to see if he can fix the problem. Obviously this isn't a thread about Steves tuning or Steve at all, which is why I don't even know why he was brought into a thread about KDR.
Zum,
I don't see what problem would result down the road from a tune, maybe an idle problem? If you mod your car further down the road then you'd obviously need a re-tune. You could either wait for Steve to be in the area or have KDR or PFS tune it.
Last edited by Scrub; 08-01-06 at 01:42 PM.
08-01-06 | 01:41 PM
#43
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 22
From: CT
Originally Posted by Scrub
Matty,
I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to agree with Steve on this one. I've organized three or four tuning sessions for Steve and been to countless others, and every time he does everything in his power to take care of the customer. Obviously he could just turn them away, but always he jumps in the engine bay to see if he can fix the problem. Obviously this isn't a thread about Steves tuning or Steve at all, which is why I don't even know why he was brought into a thread about KDR.
I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to agree with Steve on this one. I've organized three or four tuning sessions for Steve and been to countless others, and every time he does everything in his power to take care of the customer. Obviously he could just turn them away, but always he jumps in the engine bay to see if he can fix the problem. Obviously this isn't a thread about Steves tuning or Steve at all, which is why I don't even know why he was brought into a thread about KDR.
edit...want to be clear here to anyone reading. i have two pts really and neither are bashing steve. 1) showing that after serving thousands of customers u will have some problems and i think the people that had issues with dave choose to be very vocal in expressing their unhappiness and 2)i think its good idea to have a local tuner if u have a big project.
Last edited by matty; 08-01-06 at 01:55 PM.
08-01-06 | 01:48 PM
#44
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 22
From: CT
Originally Posted by Scrub
Zum,
I don't see what problem would result down the road from a tune, maybe an idle problem? If you mod your car further down the road then you'd obviously need a re-tune. You could either wait for Steve to be in the area or have KDR or PFS tune it.
I don't see what problem would result down the road from a tune, maybe an idle problem? If you mod your car further down the road then you'd obviously need a re-tune. You could either wait for Steve to be in the area or have KDR or PFS tune it.
08-01-06 | 01:52 PM
#45
Originally Posted by matty
how about a sloppy as hell on/off throttle? and break up on partial thorttle? some of these things dont get identified intially. but never the less are quite annoying.
08-01-06 | 03:18 PM
#46
Rotary Freak
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 0
From: fort worth, tx, usa
Matty,
Those are very valid points. No one in this world is perfect and I would never claim that I can do it right the first time 100% of the time. What I can guarantee was my track history on the number of cars I tuned vs. the number of people who were satisfied with it. In the case of the engines that blew up while tuning due to a manual boost control, I have no control of it. I can only react to the boost as fast as I can see it (watching the wideband, listening to the engine, monitoring the rpm, monitor EGT and watch the boost gauge all at the same time), I could be 1/2 a sec lag and pops the engine. This is why when there is a manual boost control involved, I tell the customer to dial the boost himself since I don't want to be the one that accidentally turn it too far.
As for the hiccups that you mentioned, I rarely do have them. Most of the hiccups were due to idle hunting caused by a lean condition. This is generally a easy fix since I modified in the area where you can easily change the a/f using the commander with the PFC. in the case of haltech, AEM, and other engine management system. I could usually step the person through to adjust it. So if you're asking if I provide any support after the tune. The answer is yes.
Now, the part about someone that wants to upgrade after the tune. This goes true on anything else you buy. You expect to need another tune when you upgrade any parts of your car. You can't buy a CD player and expect it to play DVD and MP3. You can however tell the tuner what additional upgrades you want soon in the future, the tuner should be able to adjust the map far enough to accommodate for the changes you have plan for. Of course this will also affect your current tune since any additional performance upgrade will cause the car to run leaner so the logical thing to do is to tune it slightly rich for future mods.
The only complaint I have from some customers are that they expected another free tune after they change their entire setup (turbo, ic, injectors etc...) I don't see anyone exchanging their old I/C for an upgraded one for free?
Those are very valid points. No one in this world is perfect and I would never claim that I can do it right the first time 100% of the time. What I can guarantee was my track history on the number of cars I tuned vs. the number of people who were satisfied with it. In the case of the engines that blew up while tuning due to a manual boost control, I have no control of it. I can only react to the boost as fast as I can see it (watching the wideband, listening to the engine, monitoring the rpm, monitor EGT and watch the boost gauge all at the same time), I could be 1/2 a sec lag and pops the engine. This is why when there is a manual boost control involved, I tell the customer to dial the boost himself since I don't want to be the one that accidentally turn it too far.
As for the hiccups that you mentioned, I rarely do have them. Most of the hiccups were due to idle hunting caused by a lean condition. This is generally a easy fix since I modified in the area where you can easily change the a/f using the commander with the PFC. in the case of haltech, AEM, and other engine management system. I could usually step the person through to adjust it. So if you're asking if I provide any support after the tune. The answer is yes.
Now, the part about someone that wants to upgrade after the tune. This goes true on anything else you buy. You expect to need another tune when you upgrade any parts of your car. You can't buy a CD player and expect it to play DVD and MP3. You can however tell the tuner what additional upgrades you want soon in the future, the tuner should be able to adjust the map far enough to accommodate for the changes you have plan for. Of course this will also affect your current tune since any additional performance upgrade will cause the car to run leaner so the logical thing to do is to tune it slightly rich for future mods.
The only complaint I have from some customers are that they expected another free tune after they change their entire setup (turbo, ic, injectors etc...) I don't see anyone exchanging their old I/C for an upgraded one for free?
Originally Posted by matty
i think i am not explaining myself correctly. just attempting to show the vailidity of having a local tuner. i am not knocking steves work. i just have some logistical concerns. if and when i go single i would rather start the project with some locally.
edit...want to be clear here to anyone reading. i have two pts really and neither are bashing steve. 1) showing that after serving thousands of customers u will have some problems and i think the people that had issues with dave choose to be very vocal in expressing their unhappiness and 2)i think its good idea to have a local tuner if u have a big project.
edit...want to be clear here to anyone reading. i have two pts really and neither are bashing steve. 1) showing that after serving thousands of customers u will have some problems and i think the people that had issues with dave choose to be very vocal in expressing their unhappiness and 2)i think its good idea to have a local tuner if u have a big project.
08-01-06 | 04:17 PM
#47
Living life 9 seconds at a time
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,541
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From: Abingdon, Md
Originally Posted by matty
dave is awesome, he is a good honest man. has he had problems in past working on people's pieces of **** that they want to make 500rwhp? sure has. who cares. things happend. especially when u are tuning with that purple pfs. i think that could have been the real problem back in the day. seemed to me more cars blew up then vs guys running the power fc. Thats not the point though. the pt is that after serving thousands of customers you are goign to have those few that arent happy. the problem is that those few just love to talk **** all over three different forums for 10 yr now.
Dave blew 3 motors up for me using the All Mighty Power Fc, then blew another with the Haltech which he totally botched the wiring on. (Ask Demetrios).
The man has NO BUSINESS tuning. He blew my car up on the dyno, rebuilt the engine but never changed the bullshit tune! So as soon as my "break in" was over, i hit the gas and it blew at the same rpm it did on his dyno. And the GREAT part of it was Dave's bullshit excuse...You'll love this! He says, oh, you fouled a plug, causing the tip to fall off! LOL...They were brand new iridium race plugs...Gee couldnt be because his fantastic tuning abilities detonated the **** out of my motor?! I spent almost $20k in 6 months there.
Guys I've been around a LONG time, had 3 FD's, from street to race. I've been to most shops too. Demetrios taught me how to do most things for myself. Now I don't have the time so Ray takes care of me, but one thing is certain, Steve Kan should not be questioned for his tuning abilites, EVER. Jason and Xavier know how to build and tune as well. Ray is my choice, hands down. And if you want to talk about how many cars Dave has sitting, thats fine, just sounds like more motors he has to fix that he's blown.
Now some of you guys are young and don't have alot of money, but this car demands constant attention and money! If you can't do it and take the cheaper route, 9 chances out of 10, your gonna be sorry. And Please don't come back here spouting how Dave made you a great 400rwhp car. BFD.....the car is 14 years old, you'd think he should know the basic's by now.
08-01-06 | 05:13 PM
#48
I was was so hopefull you would'nt chime in. You seem to be a cool dude in person but that **** you go over and over is silly... Yes you have been around a long time perhaps too long . Your issues were years ago, and alot of missing information in your "story" I will keep this lite and just tell you to get your ....
Last edited by Nuvolari; 08-01-06 at 05:16 PM.
08-01-06 | 05:19 PM
#49
Living life 9 seconds at a time
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,541
Likes: 0
From: Abingdon, Md
[QUOTE=Nuvolari]I was was so hopefull you would'nt chime in. You seem to be a cool dude in person but that **** you go over and over is silly... Yes you have been around a long time perhaps too long . Your issues were years ago, and alot of missing information in your "story" I will keep this lite and just tell you to get your ....
[ QUOTE]
By all means, elaborate!! I've got plenty people to back up my facts, especially the fanastic negitive split timing Dave liked to run on the Power Fc. Yes, this is old news, but relavant. Hell Demetrios saw Daves maps first hand as well as his fantastic etch a sketch porting job.
[ QUOTE]
By all means, elaborate!! I've got plenty people to back up my facts, especially the fanastic negitive split timing Dave liked to run on the Power Fc. Yes, this is old news, but relavant. Hell Demetrios saw Daves maps first hand as well as his fantastic etch a sketch porting job.
