90t2rx7

ok so I was driving through a parkinglot and I held my RX in first gear.. Next thing I know I'm pegged for wreckless driving because "I was screaming through the parking lot and driving very very fast."

Now My Rx-7 has like fairly high gear ratio in first gear, so the car hits like 6k RPM and does no more than 25-30 mph.. I KNOW I wasn't going THAT fast, I was definately sitting at around 4-5k rpm doing around 20ish mph in a parkinglot.. yes it was A LITTLE fast, but not fast enough to be hit with "wreckless driving." My question is..
I'm from Pa, and In PA it's illegal to be pulled over on private property.. What's the rules here in Va?

What can I do to try to get out of this when I go to court in June? I was thinking I'm going to record my first gear so you can see I can't go any faster than 25 in that gear, which means there was NOWAY I was "flying" though the parking lot.. Any help/suggestions/official links that I can print out and take with me would be lovely.

Incase you're wondering about area, I was near Leesburg

BLKTOPTRVL

Ask for (you probably won't get it) a copy of the security tape. Then calculate the speeed.

calvin

The one ticket they can give you on private property is Wreckless Driving. He could not have given you a speeding or improper driving. So somehow you ticked him off and that is his only option. I do know of someone who got a wreckless driving ticket from doing a burnout in their own driveway.

I know that does not help, but that is why you got that ticket as opposed to something else.

90t2rx7

Fair enough.. I'll go to court and all that and ee what happens.. I'm not overly concerned.. I don' thtink its something that can raise my insurance or give points on my license.. We'll see what happens..

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

That's news to me Calvin. I was under the impression that private property is 100% off limits. Hmm...

DO NOT do that. That's what soo many poor folk who are new to VA do, and are SHOCKED when they go to court and end up being taken to jail for several days... See this thread for more info on the severity of a reckless driving ticket: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ssive+reckless

You're in deep crap my friend. You picked the wrong state to do something like that in. I dunno how old you are, but if you're under 25, you're in even MORE crap, cuz the cops and judges don't like kids ONE bit. You're looking at a hefty fine, jail time, license suspension, and if you're under 18 or 21, maybe even your license being revoked until you turn 18 or 21, respectively. That's not mentioning the fact that reckless driving tickets stay on your record for ELEVEN years in VA (also outlined in the above mentioned thread), so your insurance company is gonna absolutely LOVE you

What speed he was doing is irrelevant. You need a lawyer (see the above mentioned thread), b/c you were obviously revving the hell outta the engine, and that created a lot of noise (be it from the motor or the exhaust), and the cop heard that, which prompted him to give you a ticket. You could be doing 5 mph, but if you do something like that (rev high, or even chirp the tires), that's called excessive display of power, or instigating racing, all of which are still considered reckless driving. Now if no one was around you at the time, and so the only danger was to yourself, and your driving record is clean, you got a chance at DeVita (the lawyer in the thread above) pleading it down to improper driving. But you're pretty much looking at a ticket anyway.

Also, if you're young, ask DeVita if you should take a driver's improvement or aggressive driving class BEFORE going to court. What I'm saying is simple: you're in DEEP trouble (jailtime and license suspension), so do NOT take this lightly. And do NOT go in there trying to "wing it," cuz you'll be in for one hell of a rude awakening.

Welcome to Va
~Ramy

eage8

iTrader: (9)

I got wreckless driving for doing 87 in a 65 when I was in VA on wednesday... this doesn't look like it's going to be fun

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

For speeding, the Judges use the following formula: For every mile over 80 it's a day in jail. So you're looking at 7 days in jail, and he'd prob suspend 3 or 4 of them, leaving you to serve 2 - 3 of 'em. And that's in addition to the fine and license suspension...

~Ramy

eage8

iTrader: (9)

damn... it was in sussex county though, do you know if they're much easier? the cop didn't really make that big of a deal about it

mibad

In Va. anything 20mph over the speed limit is "wreckless driving." I got nailed for 78 in a 55 on the way to the outer banks. I called and had a consult with a lawyer. She told me I didn't need a lawyer. The judge dropped it to speeding. $150 fine.

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Fairfax County is def. the worst, Arlington County is hit or miss. I dunno Sussex County, but in general, that rule is state-wide. Search for the article on police enforcement along the I-85 Corridor. 900 tickets and over 1,000 arrests in the span of a month. Cop's chill b/c he just snagged a good one (you) and has nothing to worry about. Why would he care? You can take your chances, but being in the middle of nowhere, VA isn't liable to increase your chances IMO.

If you were under 80, you'd have a good shot at just doing driver's improvement and getting the ticket reduced. But a reckless, you're screwed wherever you are in the state. Get a lawyer...

Big B

Have someone videotape you where you got the ticket to show the judge that you werent driving wrecklessly,its just our cars have a distinct often copied sound.Tape inside on the odometer to show your speed and rpm then tape it from outside or from where the cop was.The tape should show that the cop was just trying to fill his quota for the end of the month.Loud isnt reckless,you can beat it.I had a similar problem with my exhaust.The rotary engine is the originator of all these little imports.Give him some knowlege about the car,speak professionally and youll be laughing at the pig on the way out.lawyer,maybe but you might beat this with a three piece suit

Wizz

Lets just say he had it tached way up there and was only doing 5mph. Would that just be a noise pollution ticket. Here in OH we have those "loud stereo ordinances".

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Real smooth Big B. You know that the *worst* type advice is unqualified and thus bad advice?

Wizz, I'm talking about VA laws only. Here, it's not noise pollution. It's RECKELESS DRIVING, any way you cut it, b/c by that noise or excessive display of power or failure to control vehicle or instigation of racing (take your pick), he was putting himself and/or others in danger. End of story. He could have chirped (not burned out...just chirped) the tires doing 3 mph pulling away from a light, and that's reckless driving. He could have accelerated from a stop too fast (even w/o breaking the maximum speed limit), and that would STILL be reckless driving. He could have taken a turn too fast, and that TOO would be reckless driving.

Guys, don't listen to unqualified "advice" like Big B's (no offense). You're in very dangerous territory here in VA. There is no clear and explicitly stated guideline for what does or doesn't constitute reckless driving. This is how it works:

1) Officer testifies that he saw a vehicle behaving in a reckless manner (it is ultimately his DISCRETION as to what is or isn't reckless).

2) He will identify you - the defendent - as the driver of the vehicle.

3) He will testify that you were the driver at the time of the incident.

CASE CLOSED. See, it's not about what you say or what you think. You can SAY you weren't reckless until you're blue in the face. In court, it's not what you know, it's what you can PROVE. And unfortunately, you're guilty until proven innocent, b/c the cop is considered an "Expert witness," and your word isn't. So the judge WILL side with him over what you SAY. You have to provide the Judge with COMPELLING evidence (not some home-made video that's bound to **** him off and get him to fine you for doing it AGAIN, and having a loud exhaust). How you PROVE that you're not "reckless" is beyond me...b/c it's so subjective (it's designed NOT to be beat). So your only resort is to really plead it down w/ the Prosecutor and/or Judge (in that order).

Anyway, I think I've said enough. At the end of the day, you're gonna do what you're gonna do. Whether you choose to take my *years* of experience in the court system to your benefit or not is up to you. Whether you wanna *gamble* w/ getting thrown in jail (stays on your *criminal* record *forever* including job applications), or get your license suspended (will stay on your driving record *forever*, as far as insurance companies are concerned), that's fine by me. But I play it *smart* b/c the stakes are high, and when you get bent over, it's too late to wish you had taken it more seriously.

I'll leave you with this one final thought. For every single motion violation in the Commonwealth of VA, you can just pay the fine instead of appearing in court. You CANNOT prepay and skip out on appearing in court on DUIs and Reckless Driving. Ask yourself why. It's because they are NOT traffic violations. They are CRIMINAL violations. They're considered Class I Misdemeanors, and hence carry a *mandatory* court appearance. If you miss that *hint* that they're takin it pretty damn serious, I dunno what else to say...

~Ramy

90t2rx7

Man this stinks.
All for doing 20 mph in a parking lot..

I don't think they can take my license away. It's not a Va license, they have no authority over my license.

The cop told me when I went that it'd be knocked down to the "improper driving" violation.. But that because I was in the parking lot they can't assign anything less than the "wreckless driving" violation.

What do I do?

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Yea they don't take your license, but they suspend your privaledge to drive in VA. And if you EVER get caught behind the wheel in VA during that period, you automatically go to jail. That's the LAW. MANDATORY jail time. They're cracking down on ppl driving on suspended licenses, so don't try it.

I wasn't exactly clear on what you're saying re: reducing it to improper driving vs. not reducing it? A parking lot has nothing to do w/ it. In general, non-speed related reckless driving tickets (such as yourself...again, it has NOTHING to do w/ the speed) are pleaded down to improper driving violations, which are 3 points vs. six from a reckless. If the cop TOLD you he'd offer to reduce it if you show up to court and plead guilty, TAKE HIM UP ON THE OFFER. But you gotta make sure you go early, dressed to impress, and find him and speak to him PRIOR to the trial, to remind him and get it official (cuz he has to pass it by the Prosecutor, then the Judge still has to agree).

~Ramy

Big B

you can bend over and take it or you can fight the system.is it worth it to try to prove the cop wrong?i think yes.its not unqualified advice,its an idea.you sound like a lawyer so go rep him.ive been in the judicial system for a long time.im a criminal myself.i know that sometimes cops are excessive in whatever it is they do.its just an idea ive seen people get away with much worse by pleading their case.im just saying that you have rights.use them

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Well...I think that about sums it up. Thanks for proving my point. I rest my case Oh and FYI, I have absolutely *no* formal ties w/ the judicial world. I'm in healthcare

~Ramy

PS: You do realize that you can only attack a case from a technical standpoint if there's nothing but solid irrefutable proof that you committed the crime? (or guidelines so loose/subjective that there's no way to really *prove* your innocence). Your idea of a video tape will prove absolutely nothing short of incriminating yourself yet AGAIN...

90t2rx7

I would LIKE to take the officer up on the offer. I don't think I've got a real way to get out of it. I just wanted to know if you think I can trust him. What's the best way to get in contact with the officer? Should I try to call the Police Station (how do I find out their number from this stupid citation), and ask for oficer J.C. Maas?

What do I say to him? Hi I'm the guy you pulled over in the RX-7 a few months back (it'll be june when I go to court). I just wanted to make sure that my violation is going to be decreased to an improper driving offense?

90t2rx7

Quite true. I was thinking about the fact that even if the tape DOES show my car only does 25 mph in first gear that doesn't neccisarily mean that the cop couldn't say, well you weren't in first gear.. And just nerf that..

I can talk all the tech I want, and prove in math equations I wasn't driving the way I was stated, however That's only what I've got to say, and I'm just a guy, where as the cop is the "expert witness" (like you said), who clearly knows more than me no matter what.. Yay!!

I've sent an email to that lawyer you were talking about, but If I can get the cop to just lower the fine then I'll just take that and be on my way.. IF it gets lowered to "improper driving," is there STILL a risk of jail time? Because that's one thing I definately can't afford..

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Yes. He should have written his badge number and name. Found out what juristiction he's in (Fairafax, Prince Williams, State Police, what). Call their main number, and tell them you're trying to get in touch w/ Officer J. C. Maas, Badge # XXXXXX, and leave a voicemail if you must. Stay on him. When you talk to him tell him he had pulled you over on such and such date (don't mention the RX-7 lol) for a reckless driving ticket in a parking lot, and had mentioned that if you come to court and plead guilty, he'll recommend reducing it to improper driving. Ask him if you can still take him up on that offer/if the offer is still valid. If so, remind him of the court date, thank him for his kindness, and thank him for his time. And yes, trust him. If he lies and changes his mind in court, appeal the case immediately after court, talk to him afterward, see what happened. At which point you'll prob need a lawyer

~Ramy

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

The lawyer is only gonna reduce it to Improper Driving at best anyway, so if the cop offers you that, take it for free And no, improper driving doesn't carry jail time OR license suspension. It's a pay and go ticket w/ only 3 points (vs. reckless which is 6). And YES, the points will transfer.

90t2rx7

Really? The points will Transfer to Pa?? I didn't think they could because Pa is not a reciprocating state with Va.

Hrm.. I know some states they can transfer, but I'm not 100% sure of Va..
Oh well whatever happens happens.. I'll contact the officer and get that offense pegged down.. Maybe if I'm real nice I can worm my way out of points.. :P

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

How's this for proof.

I got a 81 in a 55 in PA (I was actually doing 105, but I saw the cop before he turned on his radar gun lol). I got it reduced to a 60 in a 55, which in PA is NOT a speeding ticket or even a motion violation. It's a NON-motion violation, carries no points (anything that's 1 - 5 over). It's just a pay and go ticket.

I checked, double checked, and TRIPLE checked that PA will NOT report this info to VA. They said they only report serious offenses like 27 mph over, or DUIs. Sure enough, a month later, the ticket was on VA record as a 4 point violation, saying "generally reckless." They didn't tell them my speed, so VA assumed the middle. I had to argue w/ DMV and have PA DMV and Courts fax papers back and forth to correct it as 5 mph over, and thus only a THREE point violation here in VA. Point being, the ***** reported the ticket. And I got screwed b/c of it. Imagine if I said "oh who cares, PA doesn't report to VA anyway" (which is the norm), and all of a sudden had a 6 pointer transfer over?? (according to VA law)?

As for VA, they pretty much will report to ANYONE lol. There's a chance it might slip through the cracks, but as I've demonstrated above, I would NOT bank on it... Do what you can to minimize the points from now.

~Ramy

90t2rx7

Oh I'm definately going to be working on minimizing those points.. We'll see if Pa honors them or not I suppose. I'm still not overly concerned assuming it gets shot down to improper driving.. I'll deal with it.. I don't WANT to, but it's better than wreckless.

How do I look up district info and stuff? I've got the badge number 2333..

Thanks for all your help..

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Look at the pretty yellow sheet (the ticket hehe). It should say at the top "Fairfax County" or "Virginia State Police" etc. If it doesn't, look at where the courthouse is. The cop is either a State Trooper or of that court's municipality. If it's the Prince George's General District Court, for example, he's either a PG County cop, or a State Trooper. Make sense? Then you google for that Police Station, call 'em up (non-emergency line LOL) and vioala.

~Ramy