B6T

iTrader: (2)

I'm wondering if anyone has removed the rotor gears, and if so, how did you do it? I've got a few ideas, but they all require spending money so I'd like to hear how other people have done this. One of my ideas is to make a specialized tool, which is quite intensive, and something I'd like to avoid doing unless absolutely necessary.

Thanks, I appreciate the help!

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

sorry its no help. But......

Why?

Black91n/a

Racing Beat (and others I'm sure) do it to be able to install the snap rings to retain the ring gears at high rpm so that they don't work their way out (apparently that happens). You might try sending an email their way.

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

Yes but if you don't have the tooling to remove them then you don't have tooling to cut a grove for a snap ring or reinstall the gear.

Kenku

Ugh, how did I know someone would say that...

Does it ever occur to people that hey, some of us have full machine shops, can make tooling and everything, but would appreciate advice from people who have done so so we don't chew up some tooling doing it whatever way occurs to us when there's an easier way? Do you have any idea how trivial it is to cut a groove into something and press a gear back in is? It makes about as much sense as people telling someone asking for streetport advice that if they can't figure out a template themselves they have no business cutting ports for themselves.

I'm interested in this too; I tried a few different things, but none of them worked as well as I liked.

Black91n/a

I've heard it suggested that one could remove half the roll pins, tap the holes and screw the rotor gears on to retain them, assuming that's the intent of the excercise, to retain the rotor gears at high rpm, except this wouldn't necessarily require that they be removed.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

In my experience with something like this you're better off sending the part to a place like Racing Beat to have it done right the first time. Kind of like milling 3mm apex seals grooves, when you're dealing with engine internals and exacting tolerances why mess around?

Of course if you have a machine shop and the necessary skills, then by all means go to town. But for the rest of us......

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who has clearanced, spec'ed, ported, and built many engines

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

I made this tool and it worked pretty good.










As you can see, half the roll pins come out with the gear and the other half stay in the rotor.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

So, I made this tool to pull them out.



Drive it on, tighten the screw, and attach slide hammer.

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

Awesome, you could probably sell some of those and make some money. Great idea.

B6T

iTrader: (2)

I need to measure the dowel pin positions on a CMM.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

I have that information.

B6T

iTrader: (2)

Going along with what Kentetsu was saying, I work in aerospace and defense manufacturing, so I can make anything short of cast rotor housings.

Thanks Tony, that's exactly what I had in mind! I really appreciate the help!

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

Tony's got it right. thats 80% identical to the tool i use, but it has a wedge and works like a puller, where as his looks like you hammer it out.
kenku chill out. I was looking for more info to know why he wants the gear out so i can get him on the right path. If he was making a clock out of it I would have told him to put it on a drill press and drill them out. But he is going to reinstall it so this would be the worst way to do it.
Re installing them can be the bigger problem for most. If you have a real press thats for the better. My buddy got inpatient with the lack of free time I had and tapped on in and it damaged the rotor as it was not seating evenly.
I like to mark the rotor and gear at one pin so you reinstall it the same way it came out, but if you don't its not the end of the world, most don't.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

No hammering. I use a press.

The gear is already marked.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Here you go. This is the roll pin locations.






Here is the corner seal and side seal center and radius.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

everytime i start losing faith in what this board provides, a thread like this comes along and restores my faith. this is awesome information. granted, i can't do anything with it for myself, but if i ever am able to do major machining, then it's here.

thanks, TonyD89.

Kenku

TonyDB9, thank you! Clever looking setup and actually a lot simpler than what I was coming up with in my head. Really appreciate you posting that; I've seen this come up several times over the years and never saw anyone give any sort of useful response.

nillahcaz, sorry about that, but your response just blended into sounding like every other response to an interesting question I saw here before I got frustrated, stopped paying attention to the forums a couple years back, and started chucking stuff on the mill to see what happens. "If you don't have the tooling to remove them, then you don't have the tooling to mill snap ring grooves" sounds exactly like that.; a standard "if you are asking questions you obviously can't do it even if we answer" dismissal... enh. I'm just grumpy, pay no mind.

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

Lol. It's ok i've given up on the forum a few times. I have a heavy engineering mindset and can be kinda blunt that's not always the best combo for helping others.
I assumed the OP was another one of the air pump supercharger guys.
Well you know what they say about assuming

as for marking them.. im a dumbass. I removed gears 4 rotors and marked them to reinstall the same gear to same rotor. Before you ask I got the rotors electropolished for cheep and it was a waste of money.

B6T

iTrader: (2)

Funny you mention it, I'm actually designing one of those electric air pump superchargers for my RX-7 :



(^ This is actually why I needed the CMM data)

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

I called and talked to them. They won't tell you the specifics on how to do it.



I believe the proper method is to remove (drill, or however) half of the roll pins and tap through both the gear and the rotor and install a long set screw. Loctited in and then you peen over the edge of the hole for added protection from backing out. The hole for the roll pin is 6 mm. Gear and rotor.



Racing Beat will only snap ring new rotors.



No problem.



No problem again. I'm all about simple when it comes to making tools. I like to find stuff that will work as is from the stock rack (off-falls and the like). If all it needs is some welding or a screw hole, all the better.


There are two rotors in the before posted picks. The one with the gear is a good S5 turbo rotor but the other is a junk S5 NA rotor. Old rotors are good for experimenting on. Here's a couple of picks of the junk rotor.

You may have already noticed the side thinning in this pick. I was proofing a NC program. But look closely at the center hub and windows. I also proofed some hub/webbing thinning programs.





The other side.





I also tried my hand at welding and repairing apex seal grooves. The NA's really only wear out at the top.





I hope you guys find it interesting enough.

mikliska

I have had a gear back out and can see the benefit if fixing the gear to th rotor. best bet... tap the gear in with a light, soft mallet before rebuild... If U intend to run it on street.

mikliska

I believe those rotors are junk unless you have a qualified machinist or experience.\

mikliska

Best solution is to tap the bearing (using a rubber mallet) into the rotor before assembly in an app below 9k rpm. (all assemblies actually).

Kenku

Yeah, I wanted a more reliable way of getting the things apart to carve metal out from the internal webs (or whatever you call them) personally. Never had a 12A gear walk actually.