Inglorious Basterd (not the movie, but the engine build)
#26
4th string e-armchair QB
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There's a big difference in size of your peripheral exhaust ports than with a semi-pp intake. I think that with the reni's side port exhaust combined with an earlier 13b peripheral exhaust port, you'll have too much area and exhaust velocity might suffer... An alternative could be to use the reni rotor housings, devcon it and make a semi-pp exhaust with a smaller exhaust port, or use cosmo housings with the smaller diffuser in the port. Only one way to find out! Cool project.
#27
There's a big difference in size of your peripheral exhaust ports than with a semi-pp intake. I think that with the reni's side port exhaust combined with an earlier 13b peripheral exhaust port, you'll have too much area and exhaust velocity might suffer... An alternative could be to use the reni rotor housings, devcon it and make a semi-pp exhaust with a smaller exhaust port, or use cosmo housings with the smaller diffuser in the port. Only one way to find out! Cool project.
And i have seen some pretty large semi-pp intakes with HUGE exhaust ports. if you go back a little, i mention my thoughts on "exhausting" the engine by creating a loss in vacuum power.
the stock ports are small enough on the gsl-se housings that it shouldnt be a problem though. also, adding a semi-pp to the exhaust of the renesis housings just will not work in my opinion. without machining a steel or very thick aluminum sleeve. Devcon just will not hold up to the heat of the exhaust. I looked for many different epoxys also when i first gave this thought. or actually when i was trying to bridgeport the exhaust ports on the renesis... im still looking for a way to do that, and it seems like filling in the areas by welding might work. its chances for success are low...
and your right, there is only one way to find out. i plan on trying ALL of my off the wall ideas. Just over time...
#28
any thought on rotor choices anyone, my thoughts and observations are a few posts back on that...
So, while im still sorting the rotor choices in my head. Im moving onto something that is going to take some real thinking.Turning the 6 port Renesis plates into well working 4 port plates. seem easy when you think about it, but turns out...its not so cut and dry...
The main problem...
If you look at picture 3 and 4, you can see how far in the casting goes. or rather how thin the casting is where the ports are. picture 1 shows a not-so-exact measurement of how wide i can port and not either hit air(left) or water (right). the lower line, wich is basically right at the edge of the port shows i cant go any lower. cause i run the chance of hitting one of the emgine bolts, shown in picture 2. The top line represents about where the closing edge of my port face will be (this WILL change). Not the highest i can port.theres plenty of room to port up with the 6-ports being there. But if i do add a bridge or a semi-pp (or a mixture of the two!) having to large of a secondary port could kill the engines vacuum power. wich is a no no for all motor. all motor must keep a strong enough vacuum since no air is being force fed.atleast this is what i believe...
(now these pics here are just quick things i did in paint. they are not to scale. They are just visual references for those who understand better with pictures rather than words)
so, a few ideas... lets see what the opinions are.
Option 1. respect the boundries and have an oblong angled port opening.and fill in all the excess.
* I think it will be much to SMALL of a port and the angle will kill flow. I only made it an option to explore all possibilities and get the brain juices flowing
Option 2. Fill the coolant area (like with large brige ports or P. Ports on all other engines) and port into that area as needed.Port runner would be similar to older 13b 4-ports, and then fill in excess.
* as long as coolant will not leak in, i believe this is the best route to take
Option 3. Leave ports almost untouched, and only fill in the 6th port are to suit the port.
* would be VERY hard to make a nice runner for an intake manifold.hard but not impossible. and might have a lot of turbulance with the wierd shape...
Option 4. Leave it the hell alone and see how it does as a 6-port!
1.
2.
3.
4.
So, while im still sorting the rotor choices in my head. Im moving onto something that is going to take some real thinking.Turning the 6 port Renesis plates into well working 4 port plates. seem easy when you think about it, but turns out...its not so cut and dry...
The main problem...
If you look at picture 3 and 4, you can see how far in the casting goes. or rather how thin the casting is where the ports are. picture 1 shows a not-so-exact measurement of how wide i can port and not either hit air(left) or water (right). the lower line, wich is basically right at the edge of the port shows i cant go any lower. cause i run the chance of hitting one of the emgine bolts, shown in picture 2. The top line represents about where the closing edge of my port face will be (this WILL change). Not the highest i can port.theres plenty of room to port up with the 6-ports being there. But if i do add a bridge or a semi-pp (or a mixture of the two!) having to large of a secondary port could kill the engines vacuum power. wich is a no no for all motor. all motor must keep a strong enough vacuum since no air is being force fed.atleast this is what i believe...
(now these pics here are just quick things i did in paint. they are not to scale. They are just visual references for those who understand better with pictures rather than words)
so, a few ideas... lets see what the opinions are.
Option 1. respect the boundries and have an oblong angled port opening.and fill in all the excess.
* I think it will be much to SMALL of a port and the angle will kill flow. I only made it an option to explore all possibilities and get the brain juices flowing
Option 2. Fill the coolant area (like with large brige ports or P. Ports on all other engines) and port into that area as needed.Port runner would be similar to older 13b 4-ports, and then fill in excess.
* as long as coolant will not leak in, i believe this is the best route to take
Option 3. Leave ports almost untouched, and only fill in the 6th port are to suit the port.
* would be VERY hard to make a nice runner for an intake manifold.hard but not impossible. and might have a lot of turbulance with the wierd shape...
Option 4. Leave it the hell alone and see how it does as a 6-port!
1.
2.
3.
4.
#29
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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I have done a lot of research and E85 has been proven to make more power for NA on back to back dynos. A lot of the V8 guys are switching to it, and i know a few honda people that are switching to it also. E85 is very similar to Methenol, wich a few of the fastest NA rotary cars in the world run on...
E85... better for boost, better for all motor, and the best thing to happen to a rotary since the turbo!
E85... better for boost, better for all motor, and the best thing to happen to a rotary since the turbo!
#31
4th string e-armchair QB
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One explanation for why N/A piston guys do better with methanol could be the difference in dwell times (from Lynn Hanover on nopistons) http://www.nopistons.com/forums/Crac...l&fromsearch=1 piston engines have less time near tdc, and need to use more advance to get the charge burning at the right time and make the most power. In order to do that, they need higher octane gas with high compression pistons.
#33
One explanation for why N/A piston guys do better with methanol could be the difference in dwell times (from Lynn Hanover on nopistons) http://www.nopistons.com/forums/Crac...l&fromsearch=1 piston engines have less time near tdc, and need to use more advance to get the charge burning at the right time and make the most power. In order to do that, they need higher octane gas with high compression pistons.
#35
I think that with the reni's side port exhaust combined with an earlier 13b peripheral exhaust port, you'll have too much area and exhaust velocity might suffer... An alternative could be to use the reni rotor housings, devcon it and make a semi-pp exhaust with a smaller exhaust port ...
#36
Sen2two ~
as far as what to do about your 4-port versus 6-port dilemma, i think you should just leave the 6-ports alone for now. get everything setup first and if you want to start running more complex experiments down the line, then go for it.
also, just a thought, for your side seals, you'd have to use the coded side seals on the Renesis housing sides and the uncut (clearanced by you) side seals on the intermediate housing. pretty interesting, eh?
as far as what to do about your 4-port versus 6-port dilemma, i think you should just leave the 6-ports alone for now. get everything setup first and if you want to start running more complex experiments down the line, then go for it.
also, just a thought, for your side seals, you'd have to use the coded side seals on the Renesis housing sides and the uncut (clearanced by you) side seals on the intermediate housing. pretty interesting, eh?
#37
Sen2two ~
as far as what to do about your 4-port versus 6-port dilemma, i think you should just leave the 6-ports alone for now. get everything setup first and if you want to start running more complex experiments down the line, then go for it.
also, just a thought, for your side seals, you'd have to use the coded side seals on the Renesis housing sides and the uncut (clearanced by you) side seals on the intermediate housing. pretty interesting, eh?
as far as what to do about your 4-port versus 6-port dilemma, i think you should just leave the 6-ports alone for now. get everything setup first and if you want to start running more complex experiments down the line, then go for it.
also, just a thought, for your side seals, you'd have to use the coded side seals on the Renesis housing sides and the uncut (clearanced by you) side seals on the intermediate housing. pretty interesting, eh?
and i didnt even think about using two different side seals for the different plates... thanks for pointing that out.
#38
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Yes, Kilito even mentioned that his car runs better on methanol in other thread... but we don´t know how much. If I calculated correctly, there is net increase in released heat in same amount of air when burning methanol vs. gasoline..but only 4,5%. Then we have charge cooling etc...
But I don´t really know what are you aiming for... If you want All motor outright power, full PP is proved, if you want streetable engine with high torque like PP but low load driveability, PP intake and side exhaust seems to be very good combination.
But I don´t really know what are you aiming for... If you want All motor outright power, full PP is proved, if you want streetable engine with high torque like PP but low load driveability, PP intake and side exhaust seems to be very good combination.
#39
The Shadetree Project
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I dont know if you've seen this, but Paul Lamar and the guys at rotarteng.net did the exact opposite of your motor with great results: Peripheral port intake, Renesis side port exhaust. With extremely long intake runners to get the low end they want in an airplane, They managed amost 200 ft/lb of torque and over 260 hp! Unfortunately, they took the dyno videos off of their site, but here is a shot of the dyno graph. Also, here is a link to a thread discussing it in the RX8Club forum: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=133479
#40
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That is how i wanted to build my engine, but I didn't have the money for the renesis side irons. I wanted to put a peripheral port intake in the rotor housing as well too. You should most definitley build this engine!!!!!!
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122509, 13b, 91, builds, gtu, intake, lamar, manifold, narcissist, nitrous, paul, peripheral, port, renesisfour, rotarteng