dj55b

iTrader: (2)

2.5" for street and bridge ports seems to be a good size. Thats what I have on my car right now. If you want your powerband to be a little lower go with a 2" system.

4portgsl

Im in on this, im building a 4 port 13b for my first gen. Streetport, racing beat exhaust, racing beat holley setup. Few other goodies, possibly rx8 stationaries. I hope to put down about 180 to 200 at the wheels... if i ever get the funds to get it done.

peejay

I like 2 1/4" mainly because it's widely available in 14 gauge instead of 16 gauge. Makes it quieter.

Right now i have 1 3/4" stock piping and the power is not really *that* bad... it's enough to break the rearend *housing* anyway

dvcn

The fine folks over at rx8club don't really care so I'll post here. They also have no idea who Steve Kan/Gotham Racing is.
In a nutshell, stock Renesis w/ RB boltons, tuned by Gotham.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=153312

The car was pretty hot after 15+ pulls, the RB ram air duct doesn't do a whole lot on the dyno. No header yet so I assume there is more power left on the table.

The dyno was backed up by Steve's street car and he said to multiply the numbers approx by 8% to match other dyno numbers.


Never dyno'd the 85 GSL-SE but:
Completely stock S4 13B, 2420lbs going down the track. 13.96@97mph

Same car, junkyard (84 rotors, 81 side housings, 74-76 rotor housings, old apex seals, etc) 4pt street port, Holley. 13.53@103mph

Roen

iTrader: (2)

With the race pipe, Check Engine Light on?

dvcn

Yes. But both the AccessPORT(if programmed to) and the Racing Beat reflash can block the code/CEL.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

What do you mean no one over there cares? I do. I just didn't see it. Awesome numbers. I know Steve. He's a good guy and definitely know what he's doing.

Your comment about the intake not doing anything on the dyno isn't surprising. Just to give you something to compare to, Speedsource Racing gets right at 230 rwhp with an internally stock Renesis on 98 octane gas and good tuning. They do have a good exhause and light flywheel but the intake is completely stock right down to the paper air filter! They even used the stock coils but watch them very closely to make sure they still work good. They lose their ground pretty easily apparently and start having problems that lead to them needing to be replaced.

Great work!

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Ooh....makes me want to get an RX-8 now and be emissions "legal".

dvcn

There is more thinking out of the box here. More people getting their hands dirty. At the 8 forum (and miata) they are sheep.

I wasn't saying the that intake did nothing. I meant that that a ram air intake works at speed, not on the dyno with a fan blowing 104°F air at 20mph.

I installed the Racing Beat REVi and ram air duct years ago. There was a definite increase in power. (My butt dyno used to be well calibrated. It's how I tuned the 1st gen before the advent of the cheap wideband.)

I heard that the SpeedSource cars were getting 200-210whp. 230whp sounds more appropriate. I wonder if the lower numbers were from a Mustang dyno.

Yes, the stock coils suck. I'm running the GM LS2 truck coils and they made a noticeable increase in throttle response and I believe that they are a big part of unlocking the power. I mounted them in a cool place so hopefully they will live a long time. The best part is that the coils are $19.99 each on eBay.

Watch this LS2 coil test video. It goes with your signature. After seeing this, I got on eBay and bought them.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65754251&hl=en

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

I've been saying the same thing about the ram air duct working at speed and not on a dyno for a while. It's true. They developed their setup on a dyno and then fine tuned it on the track.

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

so what is the highest power that anyone has seen a stock port 6 port make?
a bone stock internally 6 port engine, with no limit on everythign else being modified outside the engine?

crispeed

Anyone not using some type of ram air is leaving a lot of performance/power on the table.
People who based their performance on just a dyno reading are always the ones running in the back of the pack because most of the real tuning is done in the actual racing/driving situations. The benefits of ram air is one example that no dyno could ever show.
It's not un common for NA motors to see positive pressure in the intake manifold at higher speeds! I'm not going to quote what I or others have seen in both the rotary or piston world! Having the right electronics and the knowledge to compensate for the positive pressure is also the key.
How many in here have actually tuned for exhaust back pressure based on barometric conditions?
It's a never ending battle of 'suck' and 'blow' with NA applications!

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

never knew this. that's the only reason i've been apprehensive about deleting the cat, but knowing this, i'll go ahead and do it since i'm planning to get the RB race flash when my bolt-ons are done.

Lasse wankel

There you are right on spot Chrispeed ! ML Wankeltrim has dynoed 316 hp on a PP 13B on a stuskaengine dyno. But when the engine was in the car it was another story... Backpressures in the intake and pulses thar was so strong that a piece of the floor was collapsing.. many weird things that day on the RotoTest! Power was down ower 100 hp i can assure! Tune at the track or at a rolling road is my advise becausse you never what happen to your set up before dyno or track test it. We shall install a map sensor to see what positve intake pressure we got from the engine and 20kw fan blowing in front of the car

/Lasse

enzo250

How many people actually have ecu's capable of this? Or even know how to do it?

Also if you tune with backpressure compensation you don't need baro sensors.
You know both pressure going in and coming out.

crispeed

Exactly!

Some of the inventions I have done with an ecu not capable of doing it is also another story!

On a rotary the pressure sensor becomes a high maintenance item!
I really do miss our all motor program. To me it was always a never ending challenge in making more power but more important in going faster and quicker.

pirsq

i miss it too as i was really wanting to work with you and one of my race pipe expansion chambers.... im working on richie to see if he will let me do the full system on the pp gt2 car to see if it will hit 330-340whp.

theory

iTrader: (5)

I might as well post up some results from my "high-powered' NA attempts.

S4 NA motor, stock ports
S4 Intake Manifolds
Short Intake
RB headers, no-cat, Brullen Catback

155 rwhp
130 rwtq

S4 NA Motor
S5 Intake with functioning VDI
Short Intake
RB Headers, no-cat, Brullen Catback

158 rwhp
126 rwtq

Dyno runs were done on different days on dynojet. Stock timing and fuel. Starting to play with fuel now. Stock AFR's seem to fluctuate between 12.5-13 through out the powerband. Going to pull all AFR's to 13 and go from there.

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

Dang only 3HP from the VDI? Guess I'll hold off a while before I worry about getting one. Thanks for the numbers, very informative. I'm looking towards a similar setup. Will be very interested to see what you get after tuning.

I was pretty sure the RX-8 already made 200 wHP stock. No? Ya, a lot of people screw it up and only get 170-190 wHP, but I mean assuming it's in good shape.

Racing Beat only seems to advertise their ram air intake as a cold air intake, so it may still be good for the dyno. Ram air effects are only significant around 200mph (or more). Though funneling the air can make the air go faster at the end of the funnel than at the opening, if done properly. EDIT: I estimated 0.7psi at 200mph, which yields about a 4.7% increase in power. At 100mph it should be 0.17psi and a 1.2% increase in power. These are theoretical maximums; actual results may be lower.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

So ISC has an expansion chamber'd exhaust that they used to sell. Has anyone ever used it? They claim 6-10 more HP then competitors exhausts. I have heard that their header is a direct replacement for the Rb one and it will make more HP with the RB exhaust than RB's header.

drewski86

How did you come up with your estimates?

pirsq

if any one thinks ram air doesn't work when i crewed for scott molers neon(i used to port his heads)i fabed a cold air /ram air box at the track and all though the car was way leaner it when 4 ths quicker with no tuning. found out had to go 20 % richer to compensate for the ram air and that was a car only turning 125mph in the quarter at the time

drewski86

I was hoping someone would bring actual test data to the table. Thanks.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

I know it's apples and oranges, but I had a cold air intake on my old civic. When i took out the headlight and swapped in the ram air at the track it was 2-3 thenth's quicker and 4-5mph more at the top end.

karism

I think there might be some info that can be learned from the RX8 intake setup.

The series 4 & 5 engines with the dynamic chambers helped allot to get more air into the engine than without it.(I think the 6port manifold is superior to the turbo one,based on pulse tuning <not flow>)

*please refer to attachment*

If we compare the volumetric efficiency (sp?) between the Peripheral exhaust 13B ,the 4port Renesis en and the 6 port Renesis it obvious which one wins.

There are other things to keep in mind that is different on the Renesis though.IE Compression,management,exhaust etc etc.

Iam sure some of the clever guys ( NOT me.haha) Can help us work out the lenght of the manifold before ,and after all of the valves open on the Rx8 manifold??

This might help with the developement of a manifold,with the triplle tb,which utilises the same lenght runners,but can be controlled easilly by a servo?

Perhaps a study into its(Rx8) dymanic chamber will help?

Just throwing some random ideas?

Ps:I dont expect the guys who have built high hp NA rotaries to give secrets away.I think quite a few of us want more than we currenlty have,and will experiment more than now for it?