bobybeach

I’m considering purchasing a MS system,

But looking at this thread i see nothing but problems.

Is this a situation of false economy?

muythaibxr

There are plenty of people who have gotten the MS running just fine.

I'm one of them. Renns is another. Tofuball has. There are several others as well.

Mostly, the causes of the problems are:

1) It's a DIY project mostly. Even if you don't build the MS, you have to do the mods that are necessary to make it work. Often these aren't done properly.
2) 20 year old wiring. The MS is a bit more sensitive to bad wiring than the stock ECU. If you wire into a 20 year old stock harness, expect problems.
3) Even when you replace the harness, a lot of the extra wires (coils, CAS, etc...) are up to you. You choose the spare pin, then choose the wire routing.
4) Settings. Often people get their settings mixed up, and end up with bad timing, no spark, flooded engines, etc. Most often messed up are wheel decoder settings.
5) Tuning. You tune it yourself. This can be rewarding, but can also lead to problems while you're learning. Often other EMSs are tuned by shops with dynos who at least have some idea of what they're doing.

So there are pitfalls to watch out for, and often it's not easy to avoid them, but the MS works just as well as any other EMS as long as everything is done correctly.

You see nothing but problems because once people get their stuff working, they often stop posting. Meaning they only come here to get their problems solved.

Ken

turboefini88

iTrader: (1)

Ken summed it all up.

AC LINKS

In other words you are on your own... Don't do it... Unless you know someone in your area that has had any success in it. I put this thread up a month ago and no real feed back on it. Not even the 3 ppl Ken has mentioned. I wish you luck. You’re going to need it.

Yours truly a real end user not a spokesman for MS. lol

https://www.rx7club.com/megasquirt-forum-153/%2A%2Apost-your-megasquirted-7-videos%2A%2A-676396/

muythaibxr

The fact that nobody has posted a video of a turbo rx7 with a megasquirt does not mean nobody has done it. It just means nobody has taken a video.

I personally helped Eric Rhee at the megasquirt meet in Ontario, CA at Spectre's headquarters (along with Scott Clark, and a couple others) get a very good tune on his turbo rx7.

Even before we helped him, he had his engine running well.

I strongly recommend against paying any attention to the people saying "Don't do it."

It doesn't take "luck" to get these things working. All it takes is attention to detail.

Ken

turboefini88

iTrader: (1)

Read, re-read, and read again all the documentation on the megasquirt site. Everything from the build, to the tune. Download the tuning software and play with it while reading the docs, this will help get a great understanding on how it all works.

Once you doine that, get the stim and build it and then the MS and build it. Play with the software/stim/MS once built to get an even better feel and understanding.

twister7

iTrader: (3)

2nd that

sorry no videos but i have a pic of what i put my ms in


I really don't have any issue's with my ms !! I think it is set up better than accel dfi's that i have tuned in the past !!
only thing i would recommend is read,,,, read and more read """u have to do alot of research"" and work,, same as with any mod and or stand alone for that point!! I would also highly recommend that you have a second car to drive wile you work bugs out extra

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

mine is working great, and the only issues Im having are because im still tuning and experimenting with things like warmup enrichments etc. I dont have any dyno numbers or track times since im still tuning and just moved, but the car made the 600 mile trek to my grad school without missing a beat (and posting my best fuel economy so far after the engine swap... 20 mpg. Once again, im aiming for more but am still tuning). I guess im not doing anyhting right now so i could go take a video of it to appease AC Links, but it will be quite shaky since I dont have a camera mount in-car.

FCPOOTER

I have installed Many different EMS systems and they all have the up's and downs. Autronics, Aems, megasquirts , haltechs , Hondata, Electromotives , etc... Every one has there own problems.

Megasquirt is NOT for the "hey i want to plug this is and go..." But what is?
The Cool thing about megasquirt is that its open source. So it will allways be getting better software and hardware untill everyone is tired of it . My first megasquirt incounter was horrible i had to completly go and take out what the person had done and redo everything from board design to the whole wiring harness.

Now i just did a RX7 turbo with the single VR sensor 1,3,7,9 wheel trigger
3 coil mod and it fired right up. Now as for the tune its hours away from being even daily driviable but we have a dyno and alot to learn.

I personally am going to start making 1.8t VW Megasquirts w/ harnesses and hopefuly start on making some for the RX7 FC ,FD's . I know there are units that are plug and play but really with the old harnesses the way they are thats going to be more trouble than its worth. I dont want to step on anyones feet with the Rx7 market but the prototype harness is far away from marketable and all the basemaps havent even begun to be created.

With everyones help Things will get better.

turboefini88

iTrader: (1)

A bit OT, but Twister, what kit is that and where did you get it? That thing is hot as ****.

quasar

All of my problems were because I didn't understand what I was doing. Now that I have done it once it's no problem. You'll be glad once your done because if anything goes wrong you know you can fix it quick. Unlike other computers that you have to send off to the manufacturer to have repaired. Here's my video.

http://jaxrotaries.com/rx7/tampa.AVI

AC LINKS

All I'm saying is that if you are going to go with megasquirt don't do it if your car is a daily driver otherwise expect it to be down for a while. I know your spokesman will tell you "I get them running the same day" But it’s only because he has installed many of them and knows them inside out. So NO I'm not going to paint you the pretty picture. If Steve Kan a Master Tuner looks at you straight in the eye and tells you I tune anything but Megasquirt. Hmmm makes you think. If you think you can tune then go for it. Like FCPOOTER this is not for the hey I want to plug and go. Now Topless is always willing to give out needed info but my best buddy here is quasar which helped me a whole lot now has his 7 running very nice. But what I'm saying is that it takes time and effort to get here. Then tune, tune, tune tune.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

I think one of the reasons Steve Kan may not tune the MS is because there is so much variability in the quality that it is constructed and wired into the car. There are no quality controls, and if someone does a bad job soldering or wiring, then steve tunes it, then it blows up bc say the secondary injectors fail to come on due to a short or something. Owner then blames it on Steve's tune, makes a big deal of it etc... Even if theres no wiring fault, but a bug in the code that causes something to happen... who's accountable? no one, and certainly not Steve Kan, but chances are that it'd get pinned on his tune anyway.

Its probably at least partially a reliability/liability issue that keeps him from doing it.

AC LINKS

Nope he just laughs at you and says no thanks. Anything you take to him he has no liability on. Plus he is so good that he can tell you exactly what’s wrong and why he is no going to continue with the tune. But that was a good try...lol

turboefini88

iTrader: (1)

In a nutshell, If you dont have a decent grasp on electronics, diagrams, schematics and the understanding of how computer controlled engine performance works, your better off saving your money and going with a haltech/microtech ect ect.

Its not easy, its not PnP, its not for the non mechanical or non electrically inclined.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

oh... ok. well, i tried :-/

twister7

iTrader: (3)

if u are taking about the body kit i think it is some sort of gp sports knock off i got it off a local rx7 forum for 300.00 after sanding for quite some time i finally got it straight and to fit like it should !!!Fyi if are not going to paint and do the body work you're self look out it will cost a tone in labor and if do decide to got after it you're self get ready to spend a tone on filters, paint guns, fresh air breathing system (isocyanate's in the urethane paint will kill u) and a good compressor!!
search e-bay they are still on there

turboefini88

iTrader: (1)

Got a buddy that does body work. Ill stick to fixing and tuning, he can striaghten and paint lol.

quasar

I agree with what's being said with the know how, I took classes for omes law and studied circuit diagrams and was tested to see if i could solve the "missing variable".

So for me I felt that if i couldn't successfully build and install this ECM and get it to run my car I didn't learn/remember any of my training.

And second of all I agree with the downtime required to complete this task. My turbo gxl took me 8 months to get on the road, not all of it was because of the megasquirt unit but I didn't want to put a half *** car on the road because of safety and reliability issues. But I had the option of a second car to drive around while I was building the gxl.

Ironicly now my dailly driver is in the garage awaiting it's new intake manifold and injection setup and it is also going to have a Megasquirt on it, but it may take me another 8 months till I can afford everything.

Bottom line is one step at a time, know what your doing before you heat up the soldering iron, and have patients with your results. None of are master tuners and we all have to learn from our experiences and share with others what we have learned.

bobybeach

Wow 18 replies in just 24hr... That’s got to be a record for any of my threads.

Firstly thanks to all for you opinions.

For me the biggest attraction to the MS ecu is the price. I agree that the sense of achievement in building your own ecu must be very rewarding, I do all work my self on my project cars from engine builds, tuning, painting, welding etc,
But I have to be honest I seem to have less patients for solving problems than I did when I was younger and I worry that fixing unnecessary ecu problems associated with the incorrect build or install of a MS system will take up to much of my precious time.

I have tuned and installed many microtech units before on other projects, if I can have the same success with using a MS on the 13b then that would be great because the cost saving would be huge. This project isn’t my first and it certainly want be my last, I have also just purchased a Toyota AE86 that will be turbo charged with new ecu also. It would be great to have success with the MS on the 13b that could then be applied to other project in the near future.

monkhommey

this forum is a place where you get answers to technical problems. by the nature of the forum, it could seem like people are not having much success with it, but id dont think thats true. when i started my megasquirt project, i had no electronics experience and very little standalone experience. i dove into it, read a ton and was able to build a working ecu. now i have gained an incredible amount of insight into how ecu's work and how to control engines. i think that the bigest benifiet to building a megasquirt is the knowledge gained.

i was also able to keep downtime to a minimum with my installation. i made a temporary plug and play adapter so that i could learn the megasquirt on my running vert na engine. that way when i do my turbo swap it will be easier that i dont have to learn the ecu at the same time. it took me about 6 hours to rip apart my car install the MS, wideband and program both, and then get the ***** to turn the key. it fired up the first crank.

so now im building another megasquirt for a 1jz monster and it sounds like i will doing yet a 3rd for a 1g before to long. hell i can build 2 more after that for about the same cost as a used name brand standalone!

its a very indepth project, so if you decided to do it dont half *** it. it will take you a substantial amount of time for your first one but afterwards its all laid out for you. so i say do it. and if you have never soldered before, buy the megastim and use that as a practice kit.

AC LINKS

Hey Bodybeach one thing that I have learned about this forum is that you have to stir up ppl's emotions in here to get a good answer to your questions. It's just a psychological approach to it. Otherwise you will just be directed to the FAQ or get a one sentence answer. Once you stir them up you will get tons of info. So for now on start your thread as Megasquirt SUCKS because.... lol

renns

I've put about 40,000 miles on daily-driven MS'd rx-7's, both turbo and n/a. It takes a solid understanding of what you are doing, and lots of reading. If your car is in poor condition, or is not presently injected, the conversion to any standalone will be much more involved. If the car's ready to go, and you know what you are doing, you could install, tune and drive in one day.

I'd say the MS requires the most technical expertise to build and install as compared to other standalones. Unfortunately, due to the low cost, it tends to attract those who can't afford other options, and usually don't really have the skills needed.

bobybeach

Haha, well said

I think Monkhommey is rite in that this forum has a lot of threads related to problems because it’s an ideal place to get answers.

I also agree with Renns that there is a large group of people using the MS by budget choice only which perhaps doesn’t give the MS true justice or performance results due to lack of funds in other areas of the build ie Turbo upgrades real tuning time and other mods needed for true reliable hp.

I expect nothing less than big results with any ecu system.
Before the new ecu upgrade I was running microtech at 1.6bar with 700hp MP turbo. The reason for upgrading is that my microtech was getting old and only used a 2bar map so wasn’t really ideal for the boost I was running. The initial plan was to use the new version microtech with 3bar map, but looks like ill bin that idea in favor of the DIY approach with the MS

Ill give it an honest chance and perhaps find some time to persist through any problems that may arise. Getting my head around the MS ecu would be such a powerful tool for future cars and this reason alone entitles it to more persistence than I would normally give any other ecu system.

brent clement

Once the wiring and ecu were all sorted out it took us about 5hrs to get a good tune on an MS-I V3 running an s5 t2 in an 83 rx7. First time using one and I'm glad to say the only real issue we had was the ecu itself had a burnt transistor right from the builder. In short I beleive the ms is great, as long as it's put together well and you ensure that all your wiring is new or in excellent condition. This is equally true for all standalones, only catch with the ms is you need to do all your own homework or rely on the forums and internet for information when you have problems. The upside to this is that this forum is of great help. As said above, people only post when they have problems. I know because I haven't really posted anything in this forum since we tuned the car. I don't have any vids to post but I can assure you that the ms works well. Just ask rxfreak, his car is a blast to drive. It's not only fast, but it drives smoother than stock.

Brent