TwistedRotors

iTrader: (3)

I'm running a V3.0 board with 2 teeth cut off the CAS. The car will start for all of about a half second and then immediately die. I started out with a REQ_FUEL of about 7.9 and I've tried going all the way up to about 13.0 (in about .3 increments) and I'm getting the same symptoms the whole way. My ASE is setup just like Muy's is in the FAQ and it's 80 degrees outside so I don't think it's too cold. I feel like I'm overlooking something, anyone got any tips? I'm on AIM (TwistedRotors) if anyone's got some ideas I could try. I'm going to take a break for a few, been messing with this thing all day! :-P
-John

Rex4Life

What size injectors you got? I've got a S4 T2 map that should start you out.

TwistedRotors

iTrader: (3)

550 primaries.....1000 secondaries. I'd like to check out your map. Email to john@twistedrotors.com if you would please. My poor battery really hates me right now. I think I've drained and then recharged it about 10 times today.
-John

Rex4Life

You got mail!

muythaibxr

try pushing the gas pedal a little bit... or even pushing it all the way down... mainly just to see if you're flooded. Pushing the gas pedal all the way down will put you in flood-clear mode...

Also, I've had cases where I was close on the first time starting a car, I push the pedal down a little (not enough to engage flood clear), and the car fires right up and stays running.

Once you get it running you can tune your idle and stuff, and that'll help you isolate what's causing your problem.

Verify that your CAS is installed properly too... did you see my instructions for installing the CAS with teeth missing?

custom13B

80 degrees out....shesh. It was 7 here this am! Make sure you have the secondary injectors turned off for cranking that was a big part of my no start issue and Rex told me about it. Also remove the spark plugs and see if there fuel soaked,,if they are do yourself a favor and buy a new set. I faught with mine for a week kept cleaning the plugs...a member suggested new ones and mine wernt that old at all. I baught a new set and it started almost immediately! The NGK plugs fuel fowl very easily. I would suggest locating a local auto parts store and ordering or buying a set of autolite 2626 spark plugs for tuning only. Thier 2.39 each compared to the 6.00 for NGK's. You may foul a couple sets while tuning. Just something that helped me a lot when my car did the same thing,Shawn

TwistedRotors

iTrader: (3)

Muy: I tried using the gas pedal a little and it doesn't make a difference. Engaging flood clear doesn't seem to change anything either. I follow'd your directions explicitly for stabbing the CAS. The car starts for about 1 second and then just dies. I know it'll idle with some real funky settings, that's why I think it's something blatantly obvious that I"m missing.

Custom: I did check my sec. inj setting earlier after reading about it in your other thread and they were turned on. Turning them off didn't seem to make much difference. I will get some new plugs asap just in case.

Thanks for the ideas guys, I'm taking a break from it for today but I'll try all this stuff out tomorrow.
-John

muythaibxr

hrmm, that 2nd injector setting seems to be getting a lot of people, and flooding their engines... I'll have to emphasize that one in the FAQ.

TwistedRotors

iTrader: (3)

I think that's a good idea Muy. I guess that setting is enabled by default and I must have glanced over it a half dozen times, but it never really clicked in my head as to what it meant.
Thanks Rex! I recieved your fuel map and I'm going to load it up as soon as I get off of work. All I need it to do is start the car and keep it idling then I can get some tuning/tweaking done.
-John

jayroc

Try turning up your ASE at that temp by 5 or 10. That helped me as well. You may also want to increase your warmup enrichments a bit too.. An engine still may need ASE regardless of temperature. At least, that has been my experience.
Could be you have dirty injectors?

custom13B

I would try removing the spark plugs,engage flood clear and crank the engine over to remove excess fuel. Keep spark away from that side of the engine. Youll be suprised how much fuel vapor comes out. Then install a fresh set of plugs. Very likely your soo flooded just engaging flood clear wont solve the problem. Since your secondaries were on (like mine were) you have way more fuel than needed and your plugs are probally dripping with fuel. Especially having such big secondaries. My cad exactly the same thing for a week..it would start for a second then fall flat on its face. My issue was the secondary injectors being on and my plugs were fuel fouled. Other members on here told me there is nothing you can do to clean the plugs and they were absolutely right. Get some cheap plugs and clear out the fuel and its very likely to run for ya,Shawn

jayroc

Actually, I have fuel fouled 3 sets of Leading NGK plugs now. Oreilly's autoparts stores around here are somewhat lax with their warranty returns fortunately, and they keep them in stock. So, I only have 1 set right now that is "questionable".. Might sandblast it, or take the torch to 'em and see if I can save $11. Cleaning them and wirebrushing them off simply does not work.
Fuel fouled plugs are definitely something to check.

TwistedRotors

iTrader: (3)

Here's a short datalog and my MSQ file if someone wouldn't mind looking over them. I haven't messed with the car much for the past couple of days cause I've been real busy with work. I am going to get new plugs today and swap those in if it stops raining. :-)
-John
http://www.twistedrotors.com/datalog200601221102.xls
http://www.twistedrotors.com/megasquirt200601161934.msq

Rex4Life

The pulse widths seem a little high, I would expect something around 7-9 ms when cranking at about 50 deg F.

Also the TP is reading 59, why is that?

Haven't looked at alot of cranking logs--but I may soon.

That's all I could see.

Scott

Scott

TwistedRotors

iTrader: (3)

That log is actually 4 seperate attempts at getting her running. The first 3 times she caught and ran for a half a second then died. The last attempt she didn't want to catch, coughed a couple times but no running. The TPS at 59 was me hitting the gas.

muythaibxr

there are several things that can make the engine do that when you're cranking... Your after start enrichments could be a bit off, your fuel map might need to be richer, the ignition timing could be off.... etc...

I'd suggest increasing your req_fuel in increments of .2-.4 ms until you get the car to continue running... Tofuball and I had to go through several iterations of this to get the generated map to keep the car running. When we were done, we reset req fuel to the calculated value, and used the "reset req_fuel" feature in the VE table editor to scale the VE table up to where it should be based on the change in req_fuel.

jayroc

Try reflashing also. I noticed you're on 26h?

muythaibxr

026h won't keep him from starting, it just doesn't have some of the extra features I added.

TwistedRotors

iTrader: (3)

Actually I am running 026i. I'll try that Muy. I had messed with the REQ_FUEL number before, but I may have had the secondary injectors enabled on cranking then too.
-John

muythaibxr

If you want some of my new features you should try 026i_mod posted in the firmware thread in the megasquirt section...

Soon, I'll be validating 029b in tofuball's car (already checked in my friend Julian's car) and posting that. That includes all the features I've added, as well as some closed-loop idle speed control code that should work better than the current code in 026i_mod.

jayroc

Just thought I'd mention it incase he downloaded the wrong flash or somethin..

'cause that happens sometimes.. heh

TwistedRotors

iTrader: (3)

Went from 7.9 REQ_FUEL all the way to 12.1 in .2 increments and didn't have any noticeable change in behavior. The car will start and run for about a half second and then just die. At 12.1 it will cough but not actually start and that's when my battery died. Time for a break.
-John

muythaibxr

yeah, tofuball and I had to do several iterations... I'd go to around 14, then reset req_fuel to 7.9 and scale the fuel table, and start over.... Once we actually got it to stay running, I adjusted the timing and adjusted the fuel to around 12.2:1.

TwistedRotors

iTrader: (3)

ok, I'll give that a shot. I've also updated the trigger settings to match your new numbers and I've set my spark table to match the one you've got in the FAQ. I know it's for an NA but when I compared it side by side with my E6K map the numbers were WAY off!! I mean like upwards of 10 degrees for some bins. Do you see any problem with me using your NA map to just try and get the car started on? Thanks for all your help Muy.
-John

muythaibxr

just don't go into boost with my map

That map is for an S5 NA, an S4 NA or turbo will be a bit different....

The map that tofuball is using now has some significant differences from the map I posted too... he's upped the advance in the cruise part of the map by 2-3 degrees... The map that's posted is actually not really tuned, I basically pulled it from a stock S5 map, and increased the full-throttle advance by a few degrees accross the rev range... and upped a lot of the rest of the map by a little.

Was the E6K map higher advance or lower?

If you're updating your trigger settings double check your CAS to make sure it's stabbed the way a stock CAS is stabbed.