Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

Did a vid a week or so back (day of the recording 5/21/2013) and so here is my rx7 vid on youtube:


I own a 1988 Mazda rx7 gxl and this is what has been done to the car:

J-spec S5 TII 13B with Stock Ports (bough used from Japan and no internal upgrades at all)
MegaSquirt II V3.0 (Bowling & Grippo 2005, with NO additional VR card)
Stock CAS (modified with 2 teeth taken out/ 180* from each other)
Stock N/A leading coil
Stock N/A trailing coil that has been modified as well
NGK Spark Plugs
NGK Spark Plug Wires
1000cc Delphi Primary and 1200cc Secondary
Aeromotive A1000 Fuel Pump
100 Micron Fuel Filter
6AN Stainless Steel Braided Fuel Lines
E85 with premix (need help getting afr's correct for E85 usage...)
Maxima Castor 927 premix (just as good as Klotz Benzol - I do a 1gal : 1oz mixture)
All emissions have been taken off
Power Steering Delete, A/C Delete, No Power Brakes
NGK PowerDex AFX Wideband
Hallman ES Manual Boost Controller
T76 .81 A/R P Trim Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbo
3" Down Pipe to 4" Glass Pack to a DynoMax Exhaust
44mm HKS Wastegate
Greddy RS BOV

I'm currently using TunerStudio MS V2.0.6
as for the firmware: ????? not sure

Coil timing (approximate advancement) "approximate" due to the timing light shifting back and forth from the yellow mark/in-between/ and red timing mark.

I have the CAS stabbed 4 notches counter-clockwise from the timing dimple

I hooked up my timing light (Craftsman with a **** timing advancement adjustment)

L1 = 0* advanced and was spot on (closest to the yellow timing mark)
L2 = 0* advanced and was spot on (closest to the yellow timing mark)
T1 = 13* advanced (timing light was set at 0 and the light showed the needle to be in between the leading and trailing notch on the pulley, I then adjusted the timing light to 13* of advancement and the needle lined up with the trailing notch on the pulley)/(closest to the red timing mark)
T2 = no where to be found, light would flash and when that happened I could not see any of the two (leading and trailing) notches.

**Is my timing correct for my turbo application, does my timing look right?

MSII V3.0 parameters:

Spark Mode: Toothed Wheel
Trigger Angle: 0.0
Ignition Input Capture: Falling Edge
Spark Output: Going Low (Normal)
Number Of Coils: Wasted Spark
Spark A Output Pin: D14
Dwell Type: Standard Dwell
Maximum Dwell Duration: 3.0
Trigger Wheel Arrangement: Single Wheel With Missing Tooth
Trigger Wheel Teeth: 12
Missing Teeth: 1
Tooth #1 Angle: 175.0
Wheel Speed: Crank Wheel
Second Trigger Active On: Disabled
And Every Rotation Of: Crank
Enable Rotary Mode: Rotary On
Output Mode: FC Mode
RX8 Mode: Disable

Here are the noticeable problems:

- Fuel Load at idle = 95.9%
- Ignition Advance at idle = 19.6* (going above 1000rpm raises the Ignition advance little by little and by the time rpms are around 2000, the ignition advance is at 25*)
I have aftermarket digital fuel pressure gauge and that reads 35-37psi of E85
- EGO = .42 volts
- Pulse Width = 3.913 mSec
- 0% fuel correction due to not being set up

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

Also car stalls right around 3500-4000rpms when fully warmed up...

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

Hmmmmmmmm

muythaibxr

Input capture should probably be rising edge but that depends on how you wired the inside of your MS.

Did you connect TSEL to VROUT or VROUTINV?

Ken

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

I have VROUTINV wired to TSEL

Here is the thread where you had answered all my questions about how I wired up MS:

https://www.rx7club.com/megasquirt-f...g-off-1012656/

I asked some questions a while ago to make sure my timing is correct, but some things where not completely known. I am about ready to get this car tuned and wanted to make sure I had timing on the pulley precise as possible.

But does everything else look fine? (fuel load at idle and ignition advance?)

muythaibxr

It sounds to me like your trailing ignition isn't working. An msq would be helpful in figuring out the problem.

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

Here is my current MSQ file in zip format.

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

I've never uploaded a zip file on rx7club before so I don't know for sure if it works or not. If it doesn't please let me know.

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

I wired up my trailing coil as per instructions, but the major difference is that I modified my CAS by taking out 2 teeth that are 180* from each other and that is because I do not have the zeal daughter card...I have read on this forum that some of the information about the trailing coil on diyautotune was incorrect and outdated.

(This link I am posting below was last updated Nov 2nd 2007 and is what I used as a guide)

http://stuff.pw.cx/Megasquirt%20MS2%...azda%20CAS.pdf

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

Is the trailing coil even necessary? I have it and would like to utilize my trailing coils but if there is no true benefit of having them other than emissions or increasing fuel mileage then why should I keep them? Will the trailing coils help prevent detonation? or increase power?

-There are also others who only use the leading coil during forced induction drag racing, but those are obviously during short durations and completely different environment to what I had in mind for my rx7. I would like to drag race the rx7 but it will be a weekend highway warrior and street driving show off.

I was on this forum and read what some of the people were saying and pretty much got schooled on ignition of a rotary engine.

Below is that link and had very useful information.

Leading / trailing plugs on a rotary

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

Tis ist no bueno

muythaibxr

You don't have to use trailing if you don't want.

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

I noticed on tunerstudio that my degrees advanced at idle is at 19.6* and when I rev the engine above 1500rpms that advancement increases to 25*and I was told that is not right (but was also told, and read in DIY autotune that for the rotary, this 20* advance is done on purpose). Where should my timing advance be at? Someone more knowledgeable than me told me to go into my timing table and lower the numbers, but due to myself being a first time tuner, have not the slightest clue how to do that.

My other question is (earlier on during my other thread) my trigger wheel is set at:

Trigger Wheel Teeth = 12
Missing Teeth = 1

Yet my wheel is a 24 toothed wheel with 2 missing teeth 180* from each other so wouldn't my settings be:

Trigger Wheel Teeth = 24
Missing Teeth = 2

This is my settings now (I also posted a zip file of my msq up above a few posts above this one)

Spark Mode: Toothed Wheel
Trigger Angle: 0.0
Ignition Input Capture: Falling Edge
Spark Output: Going Low (Normal)
Number Of Coils: Wasted Spark
Spark A Output Pin: D14
Dwell Type: Standard Dwell
Maximum Dwell Duration: 3.0
Trigger Wheel Arrangement: Single Wheel With Missing Tooth
Trigger Wheel Teeth: 12
Missing Teeth (teeth): 1
Tooth #1 Angle (deg BTDC): 175
Wheel Speed: Crank
Second Trigger Active On: Disabled
And Every Rotation Of: Crank
Enable Rotary Mode: Rotary On
Output Mode: FC Mode
RX8 Mode: Disabled

As for the trailing coil = Sweet, I won't use the trailing coil then...I put the timing light to the rx7 again (850-950rpms) and check the leading coil packs to make sure my timing was correct. There are two marks (1/2" of space between the two) on the eccentric shaft pulley: the one on the left (should be colored red but due to old age, the color is not there anymore) is the trailing coil timing mark. The one notched on the right is the yellow timing mark (leading coil).

From my timing light (Craftsman Professional Advance Inductive Timing Light): has a dial in the back to allow 0*-60* advance scale measurement.

L1 = 0* spot on the yellow timing mark (notch on the right)
L2 = 0* spot on the yellow timing mark (notch on the right)
T1 = Not using (coil pack still there, but unplugged)
T2 = Not using (coil pack still there, but unplugged)

Here is that thread I created a little while back:

https://www.rx7club.com/megasquirt-f...g-off-1012656/

I also need a timing map for something similar to my build or even a timing map that is a good basis for someone to be able to tune my setup. I have someone local who has tuned multiple srt4, dsm, etc with megasquirt and is familiar with the software but has never tuned a rotary. He will be using the timing map as a general guide to tune my rx7 and he will go from there, checking egt's, etc, etc. Should it be somewhat similar to tuning any other forced induction 4 cylinder? What key things should I tell him...I live in Sioux Falls SD and there is really nobody around here who wants to even touch a rotary engine let alone tune it.

Any help would be awesome...

Thanks,


Matt K.

muythaibxr

Your dwell is set a little high, and your tooth #1 angle is probably wrong unless you stabbed your CAS VERY in a very weird way.

The advance should be set to whatever makes the car run the most smooth and makes it consume the least amount of fuel. You have to tune it.

If you don't know how to tune it, i'd recommend finding a good tuner/installer and get him to help you with both.

Ken

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

what should my dwell be at? my tooth #1 is 175 due to my cas being set funky

This is my settings right now

Trigger Wheel Teeth = 12
Missing Teeth = 1

Yet my wheel is a 24 toothed wheel with 2 missing teeth 180* from each other so wouldn't my settings be:

Trigger Wheel Teeth = 24
Missing Teeth = 2

I already have someone lined up who can tune the car, but he was looking for a timing map similar to my rx7's build.

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

Wait a minute......I keep asking about the wheel configuration, but I have it right already. Because I have taken off two teeth on the CAS (180* from each other) that makes my wheel a 12-1...for some reason I kept over thinking about the number of teeth, etc, etc. Never mind on that part.

I have read some of your posts to other members and it seems to me you set your dwell at 2.6 msec. I will give that a try today.

Yes, my CAS is stabbed in very uniquely and is very odd due to the teeth that were taken off and how that correlates to the dimple on the gear of the CAS and that appendage that sticks out of the CAS's aluminum piece (the dimple should align with that thingy off the CAS casing itself)

The reason for the ridiculous tooth #1 angle of 175 is that my CAS was stabbed in a unique way due to having 2 teeth taken off of the CAS (I don't have the Zeal card and I am not using the 2nd trigger which is why it is disabled on my settings). When I had originally cut the 2 teeth out of the CAS I did it pretty randomly (but made sure that the 2 teeth were exactly 180* from each other). Now that I actually know what I am doing, I will modify my spare CAS accordingly so that my tooth #1 angle in degrees isn't a huge number.

So moving on...

The CAS rotates counter-clock-wise, so from the missing tooth to the tooth that is right in front of vr sensor (BTDC = -5*) is exactly 6 gaps. 6 gaps * 30 degrees per gap = 180 degrees. If the tooth in front of the sensor is -5, then the actual tooth #1 angle is 175 BTDC. You and I actually figured this out on a previous thread of mine.

Later on down the line (to save myself the hassle if there ever was a reason for me to take out the CAS) I took out the CAS and lined up the dimple on the gear itself with the CAS's aluminum housing appendage looking thingy, I aligned those two parts and then repeated the process again. This time there was 8 gaps from the missing tooth to the tooth in front of the sensor instead of 6. 8 * 30 degrees = 240 - 5 degrees -> tooth #1 angle = 235*

Now with these numbers (tooth #1 angle) being high numbers, that wont affect the MegaSquirt right?

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

I know I made that way to confusing and I have pictures from that previous thread to help anyone visualize what I am talking about.

Snaple07

iTrader: (17)

The main reason or reasons as to why my timing was causing the rx7 to not idle correctly.

1st thing: 3 Bar sensor was not getting correct vacuum signal off of one of the vacuum ports on the UIM, moved the vacuum line to where the stock signal feed was located. With megasquirt now able to read actual engine vacuum, that drastically fixed my timing issues. No more cam'd v8 sound (sounded like it was running off of 1 rotor)

2nd thing: Pulsing during idle was due to vacuum nipples not being fully secured (vacuum nipple caps where put on and zip tied, but not tight enough). Just because you zip tied the nipple cap on doesn't mean that zip tie is on very tight. Making a boost leak tester proved to be very helpful.

3rd thing: Warm Up Enrichment was ON, ALL THE TIME, even when fully warmed up - threw the whole fuel map off and was dumping too much fuel.

4th thing: FPR had a cracked diaphragm, was leaking fuel out of the vacuum nipple on the top of the FPR. This caused drops of e85 to go into the LIM stock fpr vacuum source.

5th thing: Just because RTV silicone is used, does not mean it prevents boost leaks, or any type of leaks what so ever. The only way to be certain is to make a boost leak tester (which fits on the compressor housing inlet of the turbo). Like said earlier, this proved very helpful and is a very useful tool when checking for any vacuum/boost leaks.

6th thing: Can't stress this enough, making sure ALL electrical connection no matter how small of a job the wires actually do, by making sure all contact points are corrosion free and wired correctly can save many hours even months of headache. Dielectric grease is good for many applications especially when soldering wires, light bulbs, connectors, etc etc.

7th thing: Making sure that megasquirt timing is in synchronization with actual engine timing. What I mean by this is that there is a certain procedure to getting megasquirt to sync with the CAS.

Here is a good link: http://stuff.pw.cx/Megasquirt%20MS2%...azda%20CAS.pdf

*Mid way down the article shows how to sync CAS with MS*

Installing and setting up the CAS:

With your ignition off and CAS out of the engine, rotate the engine clockwise by hand (ratchet the eccentric shaft pulley) until you line up the first pulley mark with the timing mark on the front cover.

Align the matching marks on the CAS housing and driven gear before sliding it into the engine and connect the harness.

Go back to Basic Setup -> More Ignition Settings and use the following settings:

- Fixed Advance: Fixed timing

- Timing for Fixed Advance (degrees): -5 (The Leading mark is placed 5 degrees AFTER top dead center)

Now start the car. Using a timing light running off either Leading coil output spark plug wires, rotate the CAS so that the Leading mark on the pulley lines up with the mark/needle coming off on the front cover.

Turn off the ignition and make sure everything that is loose gets tightened.

8th thing: Having a decent base map (VE table, AFR table, Spark Advance table, etc) WILL HELP, but is not a 100% solution to everyone's problems. Just because the table worked for one person does not necessarily mean it will work for you. Depending on mods (type of fuel, coil packs, parameters in MS, tuning software, EMS type, N/A or boosted) will significantly dictate whether or not 8* at idle is perfect or 19* is even better. I have seen plenty of Ignition tables with degrees all over the place, when you hear someone give advice as to "Adjust numbers to what ever number you want as long as it feels right or idles very nice" does not mean they are being lazy, it just means there is way too many variables to just say that your timing is wrong.




***** And as of today (9/23/2013), this issue seems to be the one where I am having some minor issues. I am using what Aaroncake uses in is MS on his webpage (How to MS you rx7), I do understand that the information is pretty old and slightly outdated but the Ignition Advance Map he has is what I am using and I have dropped it from 18* to 8* at 500rpms. 8* (degrees) at around 750 rpms is very smooth and the idle is amazing, but as soon as I switch it back to his settings the rx7 backfires (a pattern of popping sounds appear) and a very miniscule amount of change happens but enough to change the sound of the exhaust note.