Megasquirt Need Help Building MS2 with Zeal Daughterboard
02-24-12 | 11:41 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Rotisserie Engine
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From: Wilmington, DE
Need Help Building MS2 with Zeal Daughterboard
Okay! So to start this off, I have an S4 NA. Going to a turbo set up! Bought a MS2 v3 assembly kit from DIYAutoTune along with the Zeal daughterboard and a MegaStim. The point of buying the Zeal kit was to attempt to eliminate some of the confusion during assembly to build the 2nd VR circuit - also the PWM mod.
My problem is I am trying to follow the megamanual guide on building the MS2, follow Aaron Cake's guide on what to NOT add/modify for the VR and PWM mods and figure out how the Zeal is supposed to be wired into in their place! Can anyone dumb it down a little on how to install the Zeal board? Does it make sense to use both VR circuits on the Zeal board instead of the motherboard? Instructions are here but once I get to the juicy stuff it stops making sense.
Mainly this
Daughterboard Assembly:
For RX-7s and most other applications, we have found that the second signal conditioner works better with the ground jumper installed in the two holes next to U2. Install a length of snipped resistor lead to bridge these holes, and solder into place.
And this
"Using the VR Conditioners
On a V3.0 or V3.57 board, you can use the main board VR conditioner for the primary (NE) input, and the VR2 conditior for the secondary (G) input. On a V2.2 board, you'll need both conditioners. You are best bringing both wires of the sensor all the way to the board, instead of grounding the negative wire. This reduces cross talk noise issues. You can bring the signals in on unused pins on the DB37 (or DB15, in the case of a V3.57 board) and use the appropriate jumper holes on the main board to connect to the conditioner. For example, if you brought the G sensor signal in on pin 25 for the positive terminal and 27 for the negative terminal on a V3.0/V3.57 board, you would connect the lower (positive) VR2 hole to IAC1A, and the upper (negative) hole to IAC1B. Here is where to connect VR2OUT to enable the second trigger."
Sorry if any of this is confusing. This is my first time building any electronics like this. so all of these terms are still pretty new to me.
My problem is I am trying to follow the megamanual guide on building the MS2, follow Aaron Cake's guide on what to NOT add/modify for the VR and PWM mods and figure out how the Zeal is supposed to be wired into in their place! Can anyone dumb it down a little on how to install the Zeal board? Does it make sense to use both VR circuits on the Zeal board instead of the motherboard? Instructions are here but once I get to the juicy stuff it stops making sense.
Mainly this
Daughterboard Assembly:
For RX-7s and most other applications, we have found that the second signal conditioner works better with the ground jumper installed in the two holes next to U2. Install a length of snipped resistor lead to bridge these holes, and solder into place.
And this
"Using the VR Conditioners
On a V3.0 or V3.57 board, you can use the main board VR conditioner for the primary (NE) input, and the VR2 conditior for the secondary (G) input. On a V2.2 board, you'll need both conditioners. You are best bringing both wires of the sensor all the way to the board, instead of grounding the negative wire. This reduces cross talk noise issues. You can bring the signals in on unused pins on the DB37 (or DB15, in the case of a V3.57 board) and use the appropriate jumper holes on the main board to connect to the conditioner. For example, if you brought the G sensor signal in on pin 25 for the positive terminal and 27 for the negative terminal on a V3.0/V3.57 board, you would connect the lower (positive) VR2 hole to IAC1A, and the upper (negative) hole to IAC1B. Here is where to connect VR2OUT to enable the second trigger."
Sorry if any of this is confusing. This is my first time building any electronics like this. so all of these terms are still pretty new to me.
02-24-12 | 01:00 PM
#2
MegaSquirt Mod
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,721
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From: Maryland
[QUOTE=driftxsequence;10992389]Okay! So to start this off, I have an S4 NA. Going to a turbo set up! Bought a MS2 v3 assembly kit from DIYAutoTune along with the Zeal daughterboard and a MegaStim. The point of buying the Zeal kit was to attempt to eliminate some of the confusion during assembly to build the 2nd VR circuit - also the PWM mod.
My problem is I am trying to follow the megamanual guide on building the MS2, follow Aaron Cake's guide on what to NOT add/modify for the VR and PWM mods and figure out how the Zeal is supposed to be wired into in their place! Can anyone dumb it down a little on how to install the Zeal board? Does it make sense to use both VR circuits on the Zeal board instead of the motherboard? Instructions are here but once I get to the juicy stuff it stops making sense.
You should use only the 2nd trigger VR on the Zeal card. The Zeal card also includes an "idle" circuit, which should be OK for running the idle valve, you should wire it to the same place that Aaron Cake's howto says to wire the TIP12x IIRC.
I'm not sure what doesn't make sense here. Just jumper the holes.
And this
"Using the VR Conditioners
This is just saying that you should bring both the + and - VR wires for the 2nd trigger all the way to the Zeal card's input since it helps with noise issues.
For the Ne VR sensor, just wire them to the mainboard and you should be fine.
Ken
My problem is I am trying to follow the megamanual guide on building the MS2, follow Aaron Cake's guide on what to NOT add/modify for the VR and PWM mods and figure out how the Zeal is supposed to be wired into in their place! Can anyone dumb it down a little on how to install the Zeal board? Does it make sense to use both VR circuits on the Zeal board instead of the motherboard? Instructions are here but once I get to the juicy stuff it stops making sense.
You should use only the 2nd trigger VR on the Zeal card. The Zeal card also includes an "idle" circuit, which should be OK for running the idle valve, you should wire it to the same place that Aaron Cake's howto says to wire the TIP12x IIRC.
Mainly this
Daughterboard Assembly:
For RX-7s and most other applications, we have found that the second signal conditioner works better with the ground jumper installed in the two holes next to U2. Install a length of snipped resistor lead to bridge these holes, and solder into place.
Daughterboard Assembly:
For RX-7s and most other applications, we have found that the second signal conditioner works better with the ground jumper installed in the two holes next to U2. Install a length of snipped resistor lead to bridge these holes, and solder into place.
And this
"Using the VR Conditioners
On a V3.0 or V3.57 board, you can use the main board VR conditioner for the primary (NE) input, and the VR2 conditior for the secondary (G) input. On a V2.2 board, you'll need both conditioners. You are best bringing both wires of the sensor all the way to the board, instead of grounding the negative wire. This reduces cross talk noise issues. You can bring the signals in on unused pins on the DB37 (or DB15, in the case of a V3.57 board) and use the appropriate jumper holes on the main board to connect to the conditioner. For example, if you brought the G sensor signal in on pin 25 for the positive terminal and 27 for the negative terminal on a V3.0/V3.57 board, you would connect the lower (positive) VR2 hole to IAC1A, and the upper (negative) hole to IAC1B. Here is where to connect VR2OUT to enable the second trigger."
For the Ne VR sensor, just wire them to the mainboard and you should be fine.
Ken
02-24-12 | 02:04 PM
#3
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Rotisserie Engine
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"Daughterboard Assembly:
For RX-7s and most other applications, we have found that the second signal conditioner works better with the ground jumper installed in the two holes next to U2. Install a length of snipped resistor lead to bridge these holes, and solder into place."
For this I was looking in the top left corner of the board and I saw a ground pad, but that was it. I did not see any other hole to put a jumper in since the cap and resistors are right there.
thank you for everything else! I will attempt this once I get home
For RX-7s and most other applications, we have found that the second signal conditioner works better with the ground jumper installed in the two holes next to U2. Install a length of snipped resistor lead to bridge these holes, and solder into place."
For this I was looking in the top left corner of the board and I saw a ground pad, but that was it. I did not see any other hole to put a jumper in since the cap and resistors are right there.
thank you for everything else! I will attempt this once I get home
02-25-12 | 12:47 PM
#6
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Rotisserie Engine
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From: Wilmington, DE
Well I fucked up somewhere 
Tunerstudio no longer sees the ECU. The PMP light on the stim flashes, and the D14 LED is solid when plugged in. In hindsight I should have tested before continuing with ****.
Here is what I changed.
Removed R19.
Bottom of R19 has a wire going to zeal "IDLIN"
zeal "IDLOUT" goes to JS10 under CPU.
Q4 is now empty (wires that were in there never terminated to anything anyway)
S5 goes to +5v on zeal
S6 goes to ground on zeal near +5v, 12v
Protoground goes to ground on zeal on other side of board.
s12 goes to +12v on zeal
changed jumpers around from TACHSELECT/OPTOIN to TACHSELECT/VRIN
changed jumpers around from TSEL/OPTOOUT to TSEL/VROUTINV
removed XG1 and 2 jumper
SPR1 is going to "VR2" on the zeal board.
SPR2 is going to pin 14 on the VR circuit (ground)
D14 to IAC2B
D15 to IAC1A
D16 to IAC1B
Is it not supposed to work in tunerstudio now?
Tunerstudio no longer sees the ECU. The PMP light on the stim flashes, and the D14 LED is solid when plugged in. In hindsight I should have tested before continuing with ****. Here is what I changed.
Removed R19.
Bottom of R19 has a wire going to zeal "IDLIN"
zeal "IDLOUT" goes to JS10 under CPU.
Q4 is now empty (wires that were in there never terminated to anything anyway)
S5 goes to +5v on zeal
S6 goes to ground on zeal near +5v, 12v
Protoground goes to ground on zeal on other side of board.
s12 goes to +12v on zeal
changed jumpers around from TACHSELECT/OPTOIN to TACHSELECT/VRIN
changed jumpers around from TSEL/OPTOOUT to TSEL/VROUTINV
removed XG1 and 2 jumper
SPR1 is going to "VR2" on the zeal board.
SPR2 is going to pin 14 on the VR circuit (ground)
D14 to IAC2B
D15 to IAC1A
D16 to IAC1B
Is it not supposed to work in tunerstudio now?
02-26-12 | 09:03 AM
#7
MegaSquirt Mod
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,721
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From: Maryland
Jumper +5v to the 5 volt pad on the proto area, +12v to the +12v pad on the mainboard, ground to the ground pad on the mainboard.
Choose two of the spare pins on the db37 and jumper those to the secondary VR in on the Zeal card. The secondary VR out on the Zeal card should go to JS10 on the mainboard.
For idle, follow the instructions on Aaron Cake's site.
Ken
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02-26-12 | 09:08 AM
#8
MegaSquirt Mod
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,721
Likes: 1
From: Maryland
Well I fucked up somewhere Tunerstudio no longer sees the ECU. The PMP light on the stim flashes, and the D14 LED is solid when plugged in. In hindsight I should have tested before continuing with ****.
Here is what I changed.
Removed R19.
Bottom of R19 has a wire going to zeal "IDLIN"
zeal "IDLOUT" goes to JS10 under CPU.
Tunerstudio no longer sees the ECU. The PMP light on the stim flashes, and the D14 LED is solid when plugged in. In hindsight I should have tested before continuing with ****. Here is what I changed.
Removed R19.
Bottom of R19 has a wire going to zeal "IDLIN"
zeal "IDLOUT" goes to JS10 under CPU.
Ken
03-02-12 | 08:51 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Rotisserie Engine
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From: Wilmington, DE
These are the instructions posted on the diyautotune site on how to hook up the zeal board. should i follow these?
are these instructions saying to use both VR circuits on the zeal board? should i follow them, or what you posted above? I'm getting more and more confused.
one more question...I really appreciate your patience!
trying to figure out what way is the best to control boost - looking into using the MS. do i need the boost mod kit or can i use one of the "general outputs" on the zeal board?
P.S. where can i send a donation?
Using the MS-II PV3 ECU
with MS2/Extra 2.0.1 or later code
Omit the stepper IAC jumpers in step 22 - you'll need the IAC terminals for your ignition output. If you're going with an assembled unit, remove these jumpers
Build the ECU up to trigger from the VR Input. Jumper TachSelect to VRIN and TSEL to VROUT.
We will need three ignition outputs, each with a 5 volt pull up.
Run a 1K resistor from the 5 volt source in the proto area or the right side of R24 to the top (negative) lead of D14, and run a jumper wire from the negative lead of D14 to IGN. This is spark output A.
Run a 1K resistor from the 5 volt source in the proto area or the right side of R28 to the top (negative) lead of D16, and run a jumper wire from the negative lead of D16 to IAC2B. This is spark output B.
Run a 1K resistor from the 5 volt source in the proto area or the right side of R25 to the top (negative) lead of D15, and run a jumper wire from the negative lead of D15 to IAC2A. This is spark output C.
When building the IAC circuit, omit R19, Q4, Q20, R39, and D8. You'll use the driver on the daughter card instead.
Now it's time to connect the daughterboard to the main board. Use these connections:
Daughterboard connection Main board connection
12V S12
5V S5
GND Proto GND
GND SG
VR2 + IAC1A
VR2 - IAC1B
VR2 Out JS10
IDLIN Bottom end of R19
IDLOUT Banded end of D8
IN1* JS11
OUT1* SPR1
* The tach signal connections at IN1 and OUT1 are optional - they make wiring things up easier on a first generation RX-7 running a FC ignition, but the FC does not need an ECU tach output, so you can ignore this step on an FC.
with MS2/Extra 2.0.1 or later code
Omit the stepper IAC jumpers in step 22 - you'll need the IAC terminals for your ignition output. If you're going with an assembled unit, remove these jumpers
Build the ECU up to trigger from the VR Input. Jumper TachSelect to VRIN and TSEL to VROUT.
We will need three ignition outputs, each with a 5 volt pull up.
Run a 1K resistor from the 5 volt source in the proto area or the right side of R24 to the top (negative) lead of D14, and run a jumper wire from the negative lead of D14 to IGN. This is spark output A.
Run a 1K resistor from the 5 volt source in the proto area or the right side of R28 to the top (negative) lead of D16, and run a jumper wire from the negative lead of D16 to IAC2B. This is spark output B.
Run a 1K resistor from the 5 volt source in the proto area or the right side of R25 to the top (negative) lead of D15, and run a jumper wire from the negative lead of D15 to IAC2A. This is spark output C.
When building the IAC circuit, omit R19, Q4, Q20, R39, and D8. You'll use the driver on the daughter card instead.
Now it's time to connect the daughterboard to the main board. Use these connections:
Daughterboard connection Main board connection
12V S12
5V S5
GND Proto GND
GND SG
VR2 + IAC1A
VR2 - IAC1B
VR2 Out JS10
IDLIN Bottom end of R19
IDLOUT Banded end of D8
IN1* JS11
OUT1* SPR1
* The tach signal connections at IN1 and OUT1 are optional - they make wiring things up easier on a first generation RX-7 running a FC ignition, but the FC does not need an ECU tach output, so you can ignore this step on an FC.
one more question...I really appreciate your patience!
trying to figure out what way is the best to control boost - looking into using the MS. do i need the boost mod kit or can i use one of the "general outputs" on the zeal board?
P.S. where can i send a donation?
03-02-12 | 04:43 PM
#11
MegaSquirt Mod
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,721
Likes: 1
From: Maryland
These are the instructions posted on the diyautotune site on how to hook up the zeal board. should i follow these?
are these instructions saying to use both VR circuits on the zeal board? should i follow them, or what you posted above? I'm getting more and more confused.
are these instructions saying to use both VR circuits on the zeal board? should i follow them, or what you posted above? I'm getting more and more confused.
trying to figure out what way is the best to control boost - looking into using the MS. do i need the boost mod kit or can i use one of the "general outputs" on the zeal board?
P.S. where can i send a donation?
P.S. where can i send a donation?
Information on donating can be found here:
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...?f=131&t=35880
Ken
04-19-12 | 09:06 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Rotisserie Engine
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From: Wilmington, DE
Okay so I wired in the boost control kit provided by DIYAutoTune. Everything is wired in and I initially wired it to JS2. When I did this I opened TunerStudio and it showed the available selections as JS11, FIDLE and 2 others(not js2). I went to resolder it to JS11 and then tried to figure out what pin it will be going out of the DB37 as. What am i missing here? I cannot find anything about JS11 going to the DB37 cable. I feel pretty stupid right now...
edit: I also plan on using the twin scroll function for my s4 turbo. can i use this boost controller as the twin scroll solenoid also as configuration 2?
edit: I also plan on using the twin scroll function for my s4 turbo. can i use this boost controller as the twin scroll solenoid also as configuration 2?
04-20-12 | 09:27 AM
#13
Engine, Not Motor
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Boost control is not available at the DB37 by default. You need to add the boost control circuit to the Megasquirt board and then bring the connection out on the DB37 (typically to one of the spare or unused IAC wires).
Start by checking out the MS2 boost control in the hardware manual:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/...ware.htm#boost
Now check out the pin usage chart:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/...htm#ms2options
You'll see that you can use several ports for the boost control, including JS11.
To use twin scroll, you'll need another spare output to switch the solenoid on and off:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/...re.htm#outputs
Connect it to whatever spare pin you still have on the ECU, and bring it out on the DB37 using a convenient connection.
Start by checking out the MS2 boost control in the hardware manual:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/...ware.htm#boost
Now check out the pin usage chart:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/...htm#ms2options
You'll see that you can use several ports for the boost control, including JS11.
To use twin scroll, you'll need another spare output to switch the solenoid on and off:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/...re.htm#outputs
Connect it to whatever spare pin you still have on the ECU, and bring it out on the DB37 using a convenient connection.
05-14-12 | 09:05 AM
#14
Thread Starter
Rotisserie Engine
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Okay I got that part figured out....
I still cant get it to "start up" with the stim. No RPM signal. I tried messing with the two pot. I thought i read somewhere that when I set the jumpers to the VR signals that it wont be test-able afterwards. is that true??
This project is taking longer then expected
I still cant get it to "start up" with the stim. No RPM signal. I tried messing with the two pot. I thought i read somewhere that when I set the jumpers to the VR signals that it wont be test-able afterwards. is that true??
This project is taking longer then expected
05-14-12 | 10:44 AM
#15
MegaSquirt Mod
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,721
Likes: 1
From: Maryland
Okay I got that part figured out....
I still cant get it to "start up" with the stim. No RPM signal. I tried messing with the two pot. I thought i read somewhere that when I set the jumpers to the VR signals that it wont be test-able afterwards. is that true??
This project is taking longer then expected
I still cant get it to "start up" with the stim. No RPM signal. I tried messing with the two pot. I thought i read somewhere that when I set the jumpers to the VR signals that it wont be test-able afterwards. is that true??
This project is taking longer then expected
Is the stim set to output both signals as +12v?
The lm1815 needs a capacitor on the 2nd trigger (0.01 uF to ground on the signal) to work with the stim 2nd trig signal.
Ken
05-17-12 | 08:43 AM
#16
Thread Starter
Rotisserie Engine
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From: Wilmington, DE
how can i verify those signals are set to 12v? this is the original stim. had i known the other stim was so much more complex i would have ordered it.
I will see if i have an extra cap in my bag of extras
I will see if i have an extra cap in my bag of extras
06-30-12 | 10:42 AM
#19
Engine, Not Motor
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From: London, Ontario, Canada
I never bothered trying to use any of the Stims to simulate the CAS signal. I just made a little breakout harness between the Stim and 'Squirt with a spare CAS wired in place. The nice thing is that you can spin it with a drill to simulate high RPM quite easily.
07-07-12 | 10:32 AM
#21
Engine, Not Motor
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From: London, Ontario, Canada
Didn't take too long to make the mini harness since most of the wires are straight across. Actually one could just use some ribbon cable and crimp connectors, then just extract the wires leading to the CAS and have the harness done in a few minutes.
Over to the left is my old Heath scope. Restored it when I was 15/16. Once you let the tubes warm up it works quite well for EFI stuff. Tends to round off the corners of square waves, but whatever.
Over to the left is my old Heath scope. Restored it when I was 15/16. Once you let the tubes warm up it works quite well for EFI stuff. Tends to round off the corners of square waves, but whatever.
07-31-12 | 08:53 PM
#22
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Rotisserie Engine
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From: Wilmington, DE
So it looks like I'm a goddamn retard and with the revised DIYAutotune harness, and the conflictions between Aaron guide, and the instructiosn on How to MegaSquirt your FC RX-7 I could really use some help....
According to the DIYAutotune guide,
Pin 25 is VR2+
Pin 27 is VR2-
Pin 29 is Spark C (Trailing toggle) IAC2A
Pin 31 is Spark B (Trailing triggle) IAC2B
Pin 26 is Spark A (Leading Trigger) IGN
As for the CAS,
Pin 2 goes to white (ground)
Pin 24 goes to red
Pin 25 goes to green
Pin 27 goes to black/white
According to Aaron Cake's guide
Pin 2 goes to white
Pin 3 goes to green
Pin 4 goes to black/white
Pin 24 goes to red
Pin 27 is IAC1B
Pin 29 is IAC1A
Pin 31 is IAC2B
My car is wired up
pin 1 is not used
Pin 2 goes to white
Pin 3 goes to green
Pin 4 goes to black/white
Pin 24 goes to red
Pin 29 is goes to the trailing coil DIY Green/coil side Tan
Pin 31 is going to the leading coil DIY Green / coil side red
Pin 25 is going to the trailing coil DIY Blue / coil side red
Here is where it gets confusing...DIYautotune says to use VR2 +/- on pins 25 and 27 - Aaron says to use pins 27 29 31 as ignition triggers. These inputs and outputs are all jumbled up...My wires are already in place, and the Harness has been modified using Aarons guide. All of these IACs have me confused to hell...Plus with the VR +/- saying to use Pin 25 is the pink wire for the o2 sensor! wtf!!!!
I know **** is fucked up, and My brain is fried from over thinking this....Can someone please tell me what goes where? I really appreciate it.
According to the DIYAutotune guide,
Pin 25 is VR2+
Pin 27 is VR2-
Pin 29 is Spark C (Trailing toggle) IAC2A
Pin 31 is Spark B (Trailing triggle) IAC2B
Pin 26 is Spark A (Leading Trigger) IGN
As for the CAS,
Pin 2 goes to white (ground)
Pin 24 goes to red
Pin 25 goes to green
Pin 27 goes to black/white
According to Aaron Cake's guide
Pin 2 goes to white
Pin 3 goes to green
Pin 4 goes to black/white
Pin 24 goes to red
Pin 27 is IAC1B
Pin 29 is IAC1A
Pin 31 is IAC2B
My car is wired up
pin 1 is not used
Pin 2 goes to white
Pin 3 goes to green
Pin 4 goes to black/white
Pin 24 goes to red
Pin 29 is goes to the trailing coil DIY Green/coil side Tan
Pin 31 is going to the leading coil DIY Green / coil side red
Pin 25 is going to the trailing coil DIY Blue / coil side red
Here is where it gets confusing...DIYautotune says to use VR2 +/- on pins 25 and 27 - Aaron says to use pins 27 29 31 as ignition triggers. These inputs and outputs are all jumbled up...My wires are already in place, and the Harness has been modified using Aarons guide. All of these IACs have me confused to hell...Plus with the VR +/- saying to use Pin 25 is the pink wire for the o2 sensor! wtf!!!!
I know **** is fucked up, and My brain is fried from over thinking this....Can someone please tell me what goes where? I really appreciate it.
08-01-12 | 09:14 AM
#23
Engine, Not Motor
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From: London, Ontario, Canada
You need to just follow ONE writeup. Because you are jumpering the pins on the connecter to the proper locations on the circuit within the Megasquirt, the pins used for each function are at your descretion. So if you follow half the DIY writeup and half my writeup, nothing will line up. Either follow DIY for wiring, or follow my writeup for wiring, not both.
08-01-12 | 07:23 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Rotisserie Engine
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From: Wilmington, DE
So my next question then, is how do I hook up the cas with your wiring considering I am using the zeal board instead of building the circuit in the proto area? I think I know but if you have a minute to explain to make sure I'm correct, I'd appreciate it!
p.s. the reason I am going with your route is my harness is wired for your way, so it will be easier to rewire the ECU than try to re-do the harness...
p.s. the reason I am going with your route is my harness is wired for your way, so it will be easier to rewire the ECU than try to re-do the harness...
08-01-12 | 08:50 PM
#25
Full Member
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From: va beach
i just did the zeal board on my MS and as for wiring the CAS its exactly the same as aaroncakes write-up
U must first go out and buy a 4 conductor shielded cable and than just follow his write-up there is nothing different
U must first go out and buy a 4 conductor shielded cable and than just follow his write-up there is nothing different