YaNi

iTrader: (2)

http://www.ms3efi.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28

From the great MUYTHAIBXR himself
I haven't seen any MS3 postings, so I thought I'd share the good news. The feature list is just mouth-watering, especially MS3 v2.0: Rotary sequential injection and support for 3 and 4 rotor engines with COP! From what I can gather MS3 v1 is about to go into beta testing, so I'm hoping it will be available before Christmas.

muythaibxr

Keep an eye on the ms3efi page for info ...

Current rotary ignition modes will continue to be supported as they are in "upgrade" mode. The first car to start on actual ms3 hardware (instead of James's demo board setup) was a fuel injected FB running a 2nd gen CAS and coilpacks in FC mode.

The new 2.0 modes are going to take a while. The angle-clock alone will probably take a considerable amount of time to get working. I estimate it'll probably take 2-3 weeks if I work on it every day of the week, longer if I don't. I'm not even going to start on that stuff until James and I are done with the beta and 1.0.

Ken

The Griffin

Is the current staged injection scheme part of the "upgrade" mode also(another equally important necessity if you have rotary trailing support)?

muythaibxr

Of course. Upgrade mode is just ms2/extra ported to the new chip plus support for a few things from ms2-standard code and support for the sd card.

muythaibxr

I'll also be testing ms3 on my own 2nd gen.

Jobro

iTrader: (2)

Good stuff Ken. I will buy a whole new MS3 Kit (not upgrade CPU) when you get some new usable features into it!

muythaibxr

The main thing most 2nd gen people will probably want is the sequential staging.

peejay

Want.

Mainly for the 5 cylinder coil-on-plug... Audi engines tend to blow up over about 350hp if you go through a distributor.

(What, you think rotaries are all I play with? )

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Awesome. I'm interested in COP support for a 4 rotor application. Can't wait to get my hands on one.

elturbonitroso

ken do you think that triple stage could be supported.

muythaibxr

That depends, we will have up to 10 injector outputs. (8 on the ms3x board, and the 2 original ones on the v3 board).

I could probably do triple staging for up to 3 rotors.

Keep in mind that those features will be in the 2.0 firmware not the 1.0. I'm saving them until I can do them really well with the angle-clock I'll also be implementing in 2.0.

Ken

elturbonitroso

ok thanks also thanks for all your work in the ms comunity.

levelzero

iTrader: (1)

Sounds very promising.

RX-S7V7N

Now i see a good MCU to do real work


It will be nice to run my 8 injectors setup.

Maybe 2 for idle, more 2 till 3000~4000 rpm and more 4 to red-line 8000rpm.

I just hoppe that this come out in short time, before that i have to go with only MSII.

Jobro

iTrader: (2)

Don't say only. In ways it is much better than the highly priced competition.

RX-S7V7N

I say only because i know it will do more, not for the moment but in near future.

yes price is crazy for some other units, in next week maybe i will receive my MS2, but i will keep loocking to know more about the MS3 board.

muythaibxr

Don't wait for us to get done with all these features in ms3. We're hoping to have 1.0 out by the end of the summer, with 2.0 coming out 3-6 months later... As much as I'd like to be fully dedicated to MS programming, it doesn't put food on the table.

If you need something now, get the ms2, the ms3 can be used as a direct upgrade to that with the 1.0 firmware in upgrade mode.

Ken

The Griffin

If I'm understanding this correctly, apart from the above mentioned "MS3 upgrade"extras there are extra inputs/outputs over the limited MS2 chip available,correct?

So even without the MS3 expansion board, using a MS3 in "upgrade mode" and a add on board like the error* board for example will allow the use of extra inputs and outputs over the current MS2 limits? If that's the case it would still be worthwhile reason to upgrade early, instead of waiting for the 2.0 firmware.

muythaibxr

You will only have to wait for the 2.0 firmware for the "Special rotary mode."

The extra outputs will be supported in 1.0.

Using the ms3x board would be much cleaner than using the error* board for example, since it's designed to be used with the ms3 board.

We won't be releasing the ms3 until 1.0 is ready, so the way I see it, there's not really a reason to go with the error* board, or any other add-in board with the ms3.

Ken

The Griffin

I see your point. No there wouldn't be a reason to use the error* board or others(and associated wiring nightmare) over the MS3 expansion board unless it is already wired in with MS1 or MS2.

RX-S7V7N

Yes, i know that things take time, but is good to see that it is on the good way.

This is going to be a challenge for me (to make the MS2 run) next one will be the update, this way i will try to let extra wires for new connections for MS3.

My unit already left Miami, and i´m still learning how to make it run on a rotary engine.

RXBeetle

Maybe I just missed it but how big will the fuel and ignition table be? I just jumped from a 20x20 table to a 20x40 for the Formula SAE car im working on. Dozens of hours on the dyno and the damn $2000 MoTec doesn't even have wideband control unless you pay even more... Yeah that aint gonna happen in Michigan with a team dependent on sponsorship money. I've been reading up on the MS3efi forum. Great work Ken and thanks for lookin out for the rotary guys.

muythaibxr

The fuel table will be 16x16 with the option of 12x12 if you're lazy.

Ignition will remain 12x12.

Trim tables likely 6x6.

I see no reason for 20x20, or 20x40... With movable bins and linear interpolation, there's no need.

Motec sounds expensive...

I think the MS3 daughtercard will be around $50-100 more than the ms2 card, and then the ms3x board will add to that. All in all we should end up being a REALLY affordable option with full sequential, angle-clock-based timing (in 2.0) etc...

There are pics and more posts over at ms3efi.com

Ken

RXBeetle

The lil F4i revs up to 13,000rpm @ 13:1 compression ratio. When the manifold hits resonance we get some real fast changes in VE at multiple rpm ranges. Really it all depends on the intake and exhaust design. I am just testing right now with previous years intake manifolds to get a baseline before I start design for the 2010 car. My goal is to smooth the torque curve as much as possible which would eliminate the need for so many cells. I kept having trouble with 20 rpm breakpoints with the intake and exhaust manifold from last years car.I stepped it up to 40 1. because I can and 2. because it's easier to find where the fast VE transitions are. That torque curve was nuts though, dead on it's face one second, revs pick up and it's all wheel spin the next.
I'll be on the dyno all night tomorrow with a longer runner manifold that seems to be much more predictable with less severe torque spikes which is what I will be shooting for the 2010 car. MS3 could be absolutely ideal for FSAE cars. On the '09 car we ran a MoTeC M4 ECU, AEM CDI ignition, Mychron dash and datalogging, aaaand an AFX wideband O2 controler.... Cost is also a component of the competition but is not scaled on actual cost.
I would love to get away from MoTeC, it's extremely powerful but the dos screen and pure number of options makes my brain hurt.

muythaibxr

ms3 is going to have a fair number of options as well once you add in all the trim tables, etc... more than any previous MS in any case.

Right now we have a dual-table option that can let you combine to do 16x30 or similar for fuel ... you would just make one table low RPM, one table high RPM, and use 2 bins to blend.

You can do something similar with 12x12 spark, just have 2 tables and blend them and you get 12x20.

We can do that right now in ms2/extra, so we'll be able to do it for ms3.

Ken