Megasquirt MS1 pnp Help Needed.
06-18-10, 07:51 PM
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MS1 pnp Help Needed.
I am new to the MS world. It is one of the Zeal MS1 that is direct pnp for a s4 car. I have connected to it and had it running on PO partial tune but Everytime I open megatune and go to car1 to tune it, it comes up and says.
Controller code does not match signiture in MSnS-extra.ini
Expected "MSnS-extra format 029q********"
Recieved "0x53"
What does this mean? How can I go about fixing it?
Keith
Controller code does not match signiture in MSnS-extra.ini
Expected "MSnS-extra format 029q********"
Recieved "0x53"
What does this mean? How can I go about fixing it?
Keith
06-19-10, 11:38 AM
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I think it means that the firmware on the MS and the one I have selected is different. So what firmware comes on these MS1 s4 pnp? If I at least knew that I could select the right one.
06-19-10, 10:54 PM
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Yeah it was at 9600, but I ended up finding that it needed ms1/extra 029y3 so i switched the ini file to that and its good.
But now I loaded aaron cakes starting map onto it and it fired up for a few seconds then died. So I try to start it back up and the tach is no longer moving while cranking which means no spark... what happened? The car ran great a few days ago on the stock ecu. Any ideas?
Does anyone have a good map I can start with besides aaron cakes? Maybe the one that is recomended for this pnp.. ( calling Ken Culver
)
Car is a S4 turbo 60mm hybrid with 720/1000 and no afm. If that matters.
Thanks
Keith
But now I loaded aaron cakes starting map onto it and it fired up for a few seconds then died. So I try to start it back up and the tach is no longer moving while cranking which means no spark... what happened? The car ran great a few days ago on the stock ecu. Any ideas?
Does anyone have a good map I can start with besides aaron cakes? Maybe the one that is recomended for this pnp.. ( calling Ken Culver
)Car is a S4 turbo 60mm hybrid with 720/1000 and no afm. If that matters.
Thanks
Keith
06-20-10, 08:01 AM
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Yeah it was at 9600, but I ended up finding that it needed ms1/extra 029y3 so i switched the ini file to that and its good.
But now I loaded aaron cakes starting map onto it and it fired up for a few seconds then died. So I try to start it back up and the tach is no longer moving while cranking which means no spark... what happened? The car ran great a few days ago on the stock ecu. Any ideas?
Does anyone have a good map I can start with besides aaron cakes? Maybe the one that is recomended for this pnp.. ( calling Ken Culver )
Car is a S4 turbo 60mm hybrid with 720/1000 and no afm. If that matters.
Thanks
Keith
But now I loaded aaron cakes starting map onto it and it fired up for a few seconds then died. So I try to start it back up and the tach is no longer moving while cranking which means no spark... what happened? The car ran great a few days ago on the stock ecu. Any ideas?
Does anyone have a good map I can start with besides aaron cakes? Maybe the one that is recomended for this pnp.. ( calling Ken Culver
)Car is a S4 turbo 60mm hybrid with 720/1000 and no afm. If that matters.
Thanks
Keith
Did you run through the calculation for Req fuel? If you used Aaroncake's Req Fuel and you're running 720cc primaries, you may have just flooded the engine.
06-20-10, 09:54 AM
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Yeah I used his calculation, I am pretty sure it's not flooded. I cranked the hell outta it with the fuel pump off and it didn't even fire one time.
Won't the tach on megatune and the one on the car move while cranking? I think I seen them jumping while cranking before it started, it ran for a few seconds then died and now won't even fire at all.
Anyone have another map I can start with?
Won't the tach on megatune and the one on the car move while cranking? I think I seen them jumping while cranking before it started, it ran for a few seconds then died and now won't even fire at all.
Anyone have another map I can start with?
06-20-10, 10:33 AM
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MS1 won't fire trailing under 800 RPM, and thus you won't see the tach move while cranking.
Did you just apply my fuel map with no other changes? What are your cranking and warmup settings?
I would expect 720CC injectors to be VERY rich on my map, which is even very rich on 550CC injectors (remember, it is nothing more then a base map to get you started).
Did you just apply my fuel map with no other changes? What are your cranking and warmup settings?
I would expect 720CC injectors to be VERY rich on my map, which is even very rich on 550CC injectors (remember, it is nothing more then a base map to get you started).
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06-20-10, 11:21 AM
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Yeah I used his calculation, I am pretty sure it's not flooded. I cranked the hell outta it with the fuel pump off and it didn't even fire one time.
Won't the tach on megatune and the one on the car move while cranking? I think I seen them jumping while cranking before it started, it ran for a few seconds then died and now won't even fire at all.
Anyone have another map I can start with?
Won't the tach on megatune and the one on the car move while cranking? I think I seen them jumping while cranking before it started, it ran for a few seconds then died and now won't even fire at all.
Anyone have another map I can start with?
Next, make sure you're getting spark on the leading plugs. Try hooking up a timing light and pointing it at you while cranking to see if it flashes. Then, make sure you are getting fuel.
On a new installation its quite easy to lose fuel and/or spark due to loose connections or bad solders. Make sure you have fuel and spark, then you can look at fuel maps and setup issues.
06-20-10, 06:47 PM
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MS1 won't fire trailing under 800 RPM, and thus you won't see the tach move while cranking.
Did you just apply my fuel map with no other changes? What are your cranking and warmup settings?
I would expect 720CC injectors to be VERY rich on my map, which is even very rich on 550CC injectors (remember, it is nothing more then a base map to get you started).
Did you just apply my fuel map with no other changes? What are your cranking and warmup settings?
I would expect 720CC injectors to be VERY rich on my map, which is even very rich on 550CC injectors (remember, it is nothing more then a base map to get you started).
I plugged the stock ecu back in and it started right up.
Plug the MS in and it just cranks. And the tach just stays red at 0 while cranking on megatune.
Any other ideas? Will all your settings work on a s4 turbo car?
I have all stock s4 turbo sensors and am running low impendence injectors.
Thanks for the help.
Keith
06-21-10, 06:45 AM
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If your not getting RPM in Megatune, the MS won't inject fuel or spark as it doesn't realize the motor is turning over. Cause and effect. When doing an initial install (and first install) with Megasquirt, when you hit an issue, try and think about what could cause the issue or what would cause the symptoms
In this case, since you know that it runs on the stock ECU, and Megasquirt doesn't see RPM, I'd look towards your rpm input first. If you get RPM into the MS and it still doesn't run, THEN you look towards does it have air, fuel and spark (at the correct time) and go from there.
In this case, since you know that it runs on the stock ECU, and Megasquirt doesn't see RPM, I'd look towards your rpm input first. If you get RPM into the MS and it still doesn't run, THEN you look towards does it have air, fuel and spark (at the correct time) and go from there.
06-21-10, 08:08 AM
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So if I am not getting rpm in megatune what causes that? Like I said it is all stock sensors minus afm on a pnp MS. The car runs on stock ecu, and the wiring is good, I went through the harness. Are there settings that in megatune or configurator that have something to do with that?
06-21-10, 10:47 AM
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I doubt its something in the configurator. More than likely its an ignition setting or a wiring problem. also make sure you are getting power in start and run key posiions and that you have GOOD grounding for the MS. Don't discount the absurdly simple either
p.s. i personally prefer tunrstudio over megatune for my msii-extra. It interfaces well and is easier to use...in my opinion
p.s. i personally prefer tunrstudio over megatune for my msii-extra. It interfaces well and is easier to use...in my opinion
06-21-10, 02:32 PM
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Update. Checked all the grounds. They are all clean, so I decided to put new plugs in it since its been awhile, I plugged the stock ecu back in for the heck of it and it started right up, so I suppose that means there has to be something wrong with my settings.
This is my DD. Help me please...
This is my DD. Help me please...
06-21-10, 04:16 PM
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Here is some pictures with the cover off
On the main board it says Megasquirt v3.0 2005 Bowling & Grippo
On the other board it says MSnS_Extra Daughter Board.
The daughter board has those two wires that are either a little melted from soldering or from something else. But the backside looks fine, not sure if that is something to worry about.
Since it says bowling and grippo on the board does that mean I need to use the bowling and grippo setting in the configurator?
On the main board it says Megasquirt v3.0 2005 Bowling & Grippo
On the other board it says MSnS_Extra Daughter Board.
The daughter board has those two wires that are either a little melted from soldering or from something else. But the backside looks fine, not sure if that is something to worry about.
Since it says bowling and grippo on the board does that mean I need to use the bowling and grippo setting in the configurator?
06-22-10, 05:57 AM
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Here is some pictures with the cover off
On the main board it says Megasquirt v3.0 2005 Bowling & Grippo
On the other board it says MSnS_Extra Daughter Board.
The daughter board has those two wires that are either a little melted from soldering or from something else. But the backside looks fine, not sure if that is something to worry about.
Since it says bowling and grippo on the board does that mean I need to use the bowling and grippo setting in the configurator?
On the main board it says Megasquirt v3.0 2005 Bowling & Grippo
On the other board it says MSnS_Extra Daughter Board.
The daughter board has those two wires that are either a little melted from soldering or from something else. But the backside looks fine, not sure if that is something to worry about.
Since it says bowling and grippo on the board does that mean I need to use the bowling and grippo setting in the configurator?
Can you post up a log of trying to start the car? That might help diagnose why its not catching on the MS.
If you try and start it with the MS, are the plugs wet after you try? (i.e. getting fuel)
Also, you said it was an S4 (N/A?), IIRC those have high impedance injectors...did you set them to 100% current limit and 25.4ms threshold?
06-22-10, 10:13 AM
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As previously stated, car is a s4 turbo with 720/1000 injectors and no afm.
I completely rewired the fuel pump to a separate relay last year, just incase that matters.
I did have the car running for a good hour on the previous owners tune, I even drove it 15 miles. But I figured loading a different map would be easier to start with... ever since then, no running.
Here are two logs I just did while cranking it. Again 0 rpm on megatune. My MSQ IS ABOVE IN A PREVIOUS POST.
2 cranking datalogs.zip
I completely rewired the fuel pump to a separate relay last year, just incase that matters.
I did have the car running for a good hour on the previous owners tune, I even drove it 15 miles. But I figured loading a different map would be easier to start with... ever since then, no running.
Here are two logs I just did while cranking it. Again 0 rpm on megatune. My MSQ IS ABOVE IN A PREVIOUS POST.
2 cranking datalogs.zip
06-22-10, 01:31 PM
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Your MSQ looks correct. If you aren't getting RPM, then it is probably a hardware problem.
I'm not familiar enough with the daughtercard to say whether or not there is a problem from the pictures. On the MS board, however, are both your pots fully counterclockwise?
Do you have access to a scope? With it, you can trace the signal from the CAS all the way through the LM1815 circuit and to the processor.
I'm not familiar enough with the daughtercard to say whether or not there is a problem from the pictures. On the MS board, however, are both your pots fully counterclockwise?
Do you have access to a scope? With it, you can trace the signal from the CAS all the way through the LM1815 circuit and to the processor.
06-22-10, 02:33 PM
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On the logs the only thing I noticed that was odd besides the no rpm is that it was reading about 8.5-9v while cranking. Does this matter?
The pots are the little blue things with a srew on top right?
I do not have what you call a scope I don't believe.
This is driving me insane not being able to figure it out... I need my wheels back, riding around with the wife is getting old. Lol
The pots are the little blue things with a srew on top right?
I do not have what you call a scope I don't believe.
This is driving me insane not being able to figure it out... I need my wheels back, riding around with the wife is getting old. Lol
06-22-10, 03:25 PM
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Yeah, it's probably a problem reading the signal from the CAS. This can happen if your grounds are not EXACTLY like factory or it can happen if the potentiometers aren't fully counter clockwise. That unit ran an engine (mine to be specific) before I shipped it, so it's not the unit unless something has been broken in the meantime.
Ken
Ken
06-22-10, 03:43 PM
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If something is broken or burnt out will it be visably obvious?
It had a tune on it when I got it, hooked it up and it fired right up, then I get my laptop connected and loaded a different map, now this.
I have not changed anything about the MS nor the car besides that map and spark plugs, AND I AM NOT RUNNING A BAC IF THIS MAKES A DIF.
Ken if you want I would Send it to you so you can check it out.
What causes this? I need this car driving asap, so anyones help would be great.
Thanks
Keith
It had a tune on it when I got it, hooked it up and it fired right up, then I get my laptop connected and loaded a different map, now this.
I have not changed anything about the MS nor the car besides that map and spark plugs, AND I AM NOT RUNNING A BAC IF THIS MAKES A DIF.
Ken if you want I would Send it to you so you can check it out.
What causes this? I need this car driving asap, so anyones help would be great.
Thanks
Keith
06-23-10, 05:41 AM
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My suggestion at this point would be to step through the circuit from the CAS to the MS and see if the CAS is putting out voltage, is it getting TO the MS, and is it something with the Zeal board or something that is not getting the RPM into the MS.
I breezed through your .msq and nothing "seemed" amiss (mind you my daily driver v6 is MSed, but i haven't done a rotary...yet
) I'd lean more towards the fact your CAS signal doesn't seem to be arriving at the MS over the MS being bad, but thats just my $.02
I breezed through your .msq and nothing "seemed" amiss (mind you my daily driver v6 is MSed, but i haven't done a rotary...yet
) I'd lean more towards the fact your CAS signal doesn't seem to be arriving at the MS over the MS being bad, but thats just my $.02
06-23-10, 09:31 AM
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Ken would you be willing to check this unit out if I sent it to you? I could pay you if need be.
I am going to have to run through all the harness again, I must have missed something. Starting with the CAS.
Signal from the CAS is what give the MS rpm signal right?
Any other ideas?
Thanks for the help thus far.
Keith
I am going to have to run through all the harness again, I must have missed something. Starting with the CAS.
Signal from the CAS is what give the MS rpm signal right?
Any other ideas?
Thanks for the help thus far.
Keith
06-23-10, 10:45 AM
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Yes, the signal from the CAS gives the MS engine speed and position. Without that signal, the MS can do nothing.
If you have access to a scope, you can trace the signal all the way through from the CAS to the CPU. If not, the next best thing is a multmeter which has a frequency function. Spinning the CAS quickly by hand will produce a sine wave, and the meter will be able to read that frequency. Start at the CAS and continue down the line until the meter shows nothing. That's where your fault is. A regular multimeter will be of limited help.
If you have access to a scope, you can trace the signal all the way through from the CAS to the CPU. If not, the next best thing is a multmeter which has a frequency function. Spinning the CAS quickly by hand will produce a sine wave, and the meter will be able to read that frequency. Start at the CAS and continue down the line until the meter shows nothing. That's where your fault is. A regular multimeter will be of limited help.
06-23-10, 12:23 PM
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What is a scope? I have a regular multimeter that I nomally use.
If it were a problem with the CAS or a wire between it and the MS How would it not show a problem when the stock ecu is hooked up? That is why I keep leaning toward a hardware/software problem in the MS.
If it were a problem with the CAS or a wire between it and the MS How would it not show a problem when the stock ecu is hooked up? That is why I keep leaning toward a hardware/software problem in the MS.