trainwreck517

iTrader: (1)

For those of you running Megasquirt, Could I get your maps so that I have a starting point for when I go tunning this weekend. Also do you have any tips or tricks that could be usefull for tuning, will be using a wideband for tunning. Also how do you have your injectors hooked up? I currently have it set for kurt staging.. Although considering dual table..but kind of scared about the tunning on a dual table.


This will be done on a S5 n/a. Currently idles fine, but haven't driven it.. as need to get a inverter for the laptop... dead battery.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Let me guess; you've got dual 460cc or 550cc injectors, right? One primary and one secondary per rotor? If I were you, I'd update to the latest MSnS-Extra firmware. It includes staged injection.

Roger Enns (renns on the forum) wrote the staged injection code and runs it on his own 13B. I'm going to use it on my 20B as soon as I finish my carb to EFI swap and get done bench testing; I just have a couple more things to test in the latest firmware release (msn-e022g), but so far, so good.

I could post pictures of the VE and spark tables I'm going to start with. Sorry, I don't know how to export them as files yet, but you can copy the numbers.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Again, the above tables have never actually been used on an engine, but they're what I'm going to start with.

Be sure to read through this part of the online documentation if you haven't already. It should be enough to get you started. http://www.megasquirt.info/manual/rotary.htm

Edit: It wouldn't be a bad idea to contact renns either.

trainwreck517

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I read that. Thats where I got the idea for kurt staging, I have 2 460cc per rotor.

What hardware version are you running? Thanks for the numbers.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I came into MegaSquirt at the right time to take advantage of the staged injection so I didn't have to mess around with DT or Kurt Staging (not that there's anything wrong with that). The progressive nature of the Mazda throttle body works best with staged injection.

You Req_fuel should come out to 9.4 or 9.6ms.

My hardware is the v2.2 printed circuit board. I just downloaded MegaTune version 225 build 412, but it looks like there's an even newer version recently added to the 'experimental' directory here. http://not2fast.wryday.com/megasquirt/mt/experimental/

Note: some versions of MegaTune are incompatible with older versions of the firmware. There's a version compatability list somewhere out there. Anyway, build 412 seems to work with Extra 022g. I think I'll try MT build 417 in a minute...

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I need to correct something I wrote above. The version of the MegaSquirt firmware I'm using is MSnS-Extra022g1

renns

Jeff,

Please don't promote code that has not received official release status yet. There's no better way to frustrate new users than to get them involved in playing around with Alpha or Beta releases. It's fine for you playing on the bench, but others may be modifying a daily driver, and sure don't need those hassles.

The official release of MSnSExtra and associated tuning software is posted here:

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=3489

Some further basic setup info is here:

http://www.megasquirt.info/manual/rotary.htm

The setup info posted is with 8x8 tables, but just spread the numbers out onto suitably spaced 12x12 bins and you'll be fine.

Roger.

trainwreck517

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info, Will be playing around with staged injection this sunday so will see how that goes.. Current set up is.. primarys on Injecter bank #1, and secondarys on injecter bank to#2. Set up staged injection simalar to the example shown on the sourceforge site. It says Dual table must be disabled.. Is there an .ini file which must be edited to disable Dual table, or is it automaticly disabled when selecting Staged injection. My friend will be helping me tune it with his wideband.. he is expereince with haltech and Wolf ECU's and hopefully we quickly learn to tune Megasquirt.... seems pretty easy... So if anyone could answer those questions..thanks.

Kenku

Hey, sorry to bring this back up, but it sounds like you guys are doing ignition control on the MSnS-Extra now on rotaries... is that right, and if so, what hardware are you using for spark?

trainwreck517

iTrader: (1)

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/ex...lect.html#fuel few stuff on ignition, I for one am still running stock ecu for ignition.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I'm doing something with the wheel decoder. http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/ex...tup-wheel.html It's so stable now that it's due to come out of alpha any time now. Actually, I think it already is out of alpha since James declared 021u stable for general use recently, which includes the wheel decoder software. Mind you it did have random RPM dropouts and spikes which James solved about a week ago in a more recent build. Since then, all the latest builds of the code have had a perfectly accurate wheel decoder.

I've currently got 022i6 on my CPU which has some new after start enrichment adjustability. I guess you shouldn't try it if your 7 isn't your dailiy driver, since it's an alpha code.

Kenku, I'm running leading only (0°+180° per rotor), and since I know trailing doesn't do anything for power, I doubt I'll even notice its absence. Trailing may be supported soon, but it's not something I'm keeping tabs on.

I threw a timing light on the CAS and spun it in my hand drill while connected to the MS. Now I know where to set static timing, plus all the trigger positions.

Kenku

Ah, okay. Seems like there should be some way to do trailing though... (no, I don't exactly know what that method would be, but I'm sure it'll be cool)

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

The two ways you can run ignition right now are single leading sparks with trailing firing at the same time (no split), or dual leading sparks only (0° and 180°). We currently can't have both like what a stock FC ECU provides. My position is that you're upgrading an ECU for greater adjustability and power rather than emissions. This means the loss of trailing shouldn't really be a concern. Some of us have ran without trailing and didn't notice a difference on a chassis or butt dyno. It's not like a piston engine where every spark plug is required to spark. Trailing is optional unless you're required to meet emissions standards, in which case you shouldn't be messing with your stock stuff anyway.

Kenku

Yeah, I'm not overly concerned or anything, and I saw mention on the MS Rotary page on how dynos are showing eliminating the trailing not having any effect on power. But the engineer/perfectionist in me objects to eliminating adjustments compared to the stock ECU.

... which I don't have anyway, being a 1st gen guy, but it's the principle of the thing.

Although, really, I'm planning on building an MS for a *pport* motor. What the hell am I doing worrying about things to fine-tune emissions?

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Hehe, and if it's a p-port, you don't need to worry about retarding under boost or any of that. DLIDFIS or a completely stock 1st gen dizzy would work for you. Even Blake Qualley's p-port could rev up to 11k on a stock 1st gen dizzy (everything through the cap). Easily switching to direct fire leading is just icing on the cake at that point. Plus trailing can still be run (through the leading part of the cap) to satisfy your itch.

Kenku

Yeah, though some of extra features in the MSnS-Extra caught my interest, like the traction control and such. Direct-fired dual-post coils firing lead and trailing at the same time would do it well enough, I think.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Nope. Ask peejay why it's a bad idea to fire both plugs in a rotor housing from a dual post coil. I'm sure he'd be able to explain it without confusing you.

Kenku

... uh... not firing trailing as waste spark, which would be silly. I fail to see a functional difference between using two seperate coils to fire plugs with 0 split and using one dual post coil to do the same.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Most people don't realise this, so you're not alone.

You do not want to fire two plugs in one rotor housing from a dual ended coil because more of the spark energy would go to the trailing plug, thus weakening the spark on your more important leading plug. Or at least that's what I remember from reading peejay's post a while ago. It has nothing to do with wasted spark on trailing or anything like that.

Kenku

Oh... huh. That actually makes some sense... as I recall, that's part of the theory behind the ion-sensing ignition that various companies are playing with.

Back to good ole reliable 3-coils then, I guess.

renns

The dual-post coil is intended to be fired in 'wasted spark' mode, where the working plug fires into a high-pressure relatively low-temp chamber, and the wasted plug fires into a low-pressure high-temp chamber. It is _much_ easier to jump the gap in a low-pressure high-temp chamber, so the coil voltage needed to jump the two plug gaps (as is required in a dual-post coil) is not much more than the working plug alone. If both plugs were placed in same rotor housing, then the voltage required to fire the plugs will go up accordingly, nearly doubling in fact. It _may_ work, if there is enough margin in the ignition system already, but likely not worth the bother. In my simultaneous fire setup, I used four single-post coils from FC trailing coil packs. They are still fired as pairs, but now each plug has a dedicated coil.

Roger.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

renns' setup is the best way to do it if you're using EDIS on a 13B. Of course I'd simply go with the dual-post coil for leading and its stock ignitor hooked to one of the LEDs of a MegaSquirt, but that's just me.

Here's some info about RETed's NA 20B setup. He used three dual-post coils and the engine experienced high RPM ignition breakup. I'm not sure what ignitors he used, but the ECU was a Haltech. I think he solved the problem, but I'd need to reread the thread to refresh my memory.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Here's the thread. It even includes peejay's explaination. https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...light=misfires

Kenku

*nod* Okay, I get it... thanks for going and looking that up. And that thread makes me want a 20B, idly.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Uh-oh.

Scroll down for pictures of the no-no setup. You'll see three leading coils. https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=291793