Megasquirt I just *finished* my 12A NA + T Conversion!
02-15-09, 02:56 AM
#1
I just *finished* my 12A NA + T Conversion!
By finished I mean initial. Its been going for a week, but I only just got the stock waste gate working properly. I'm using a 89-91 TII turbocharger, its non intercooled, and uses high compression rotors. It has been a VERY decent power increase now running 7psi boost!
I painted some lines today :P With my USDM LSD that I got off this forum!
I painted some lines today :P With my USDM LSD that I got off this forum!
02-15-09, 07:36 AM
#2
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Excellent! I, too, have a very similar build getting closer to completion. 12A, T3/T4, no intercooler, preturbo water, etc. I've run this one ~30K miles NA and am really looking forward to getting it done. What are you doing for injectors (#, size)? Are you using any water/methanol/AI of any kind? How is the MS' staged injection working for you?
02-15-09, 05:22 PM
#3
No charge cooling at all, I have the intercooler mounted, and I have the $$ to take the car to the exhaust shop to make me stainless intercooler piping BUT the battery is in the way on the passenger side (USDM drivers side), and on the drivers side (USDM passenger side) there is the radiator overflow in the way. I guess I would take it to the shop, remove the two, get the piping done, rip it off and bring it home with more motivation hopefully :P
You already know I'm using a 12A IDA manifold with twin 50mm IDA throttle bodies (injection perfection branded). I'm using 2 S5 Turbo injectors (550cc high imp.) and 2 Siemens (870cc low imp.). These are located in the throttle body just below the throttle plate. I'm use a tube type plenum above. I'll get some pics up for everyone to look at in disgust:P
You already know I'm using a 12A IDA manifold with twin 50mm IDA throttle bodies (injection perfection branded). I'm using 2 S5 Turbo injectors (550cc high imp.) and 2 Siemens (870cc low imp.). These are located in the throttle body just below the throttle plate. I'm use a tube type plenum above. I'll get some pics up for everyone to look at in disgust:P
02-15-09, 06:06 PM
#4
I just looked at your setup a bit more, I think you should put the plastic bosch bov valve towards the front of the engine. That turbocharger is going to melt it there. You should plumb it back between the pod and the turbo front cover.
Do square plenums work well? I can see why you are going to need staged injection :P with the location of your secondary injectors, you will want those staged on throttle position and load I think. I've seen injectors placed like that before in race cars so it should work really well. Also remember when they come online they are first going to have to wet all the intake tract between then at the primary injectors. You will want a longer staging delay before reducing the primary injector duty.
Yes staged injection is working well for me, my throttle bodies aren't staged like yours and I only use it for finer control
Do square plenums work well? I can see why you are going to need staged injection :P with the location of your secondary injectors, you will want those staged on throttle position and load I think. I've seen injectors placed like that before in race cars so it should work really well. Also remember when they come online they are first going to have to wet all the intake tract between then at the primary injectors. You will want a longer staging delay before reducing the primary injector duty.
Yes staged injection is working well for me, my throttle bodies aren't staged like yours and I only use it for finer control
02-16-09, 06:50 AM
#5
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Nothing is 100% firm as to placement of stuff, that "rough fitment" pic was taken with parts just tossed in there as I needed to be sure the hood would close, etc. I already had to move the alternator due to space issues; I moved the alternator down and now I have to mount the second gen trailing coil somewhere else. I'll be certain to have the BOV away from the turbo, for sure, thanks for the advice. That manifold has ~16" of wall between the TB injectors and ports so I'm well acquainted with wall wetting. I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work well in a colder climate, we rarely get below 24C here. I'm trying to be careful with respect to heat hence the aluminum heat shield along the non-US driver's side shock tower to protect the brake lines for the R front as well as to provide safe haven for cabling into the cab for the MS, wideband, TC amp, AI PWM converter, etc. The turbo-hood clearance is very tight, I'm planning on attaching some of that heat shield blanket aluminized material to the underside of the hood. I don't hold much hope for that working, we'll see. That sheet metal-and-angles square plenum is a proof of concept piece of crap that will be recreated in Al once it's seen to attain my not-so-lofty goals, namely 225 low-boost, safe HP in a light, stripped first gen. How did you do your turbo oil return? Drill the front housing?
02-16-09, 07:38 AM
#6
BAD NEWS AT END OF POST!
I didn't do it. Front side housing housing is normally the oil feed near the dizzy/cas hole. Pictures will explain my oil feed. My oil return is a piece of AL pipe welded into the front cover near the flat spot around the OMP. OMP has to be blocked off however as there is no room anymore.
Here are my setup pics
BAD NEWS
Late last year when I was still banging my head against the wall trying to get the hacked up and adapted S5 Turbo intake to work properly on my 12A. This is before the turbo. Anyway I measured the compression of my engine on a 'key' day to decide to just drop it and go IDA down draft throttle bodies. The compression measured 97 front 102 rear (I assume I can't remember which was which). Today I retested it, as a benchmark, expecting something very close to last time. Anyway I measured it warm, but not hot, and it was 85 front, 92 rear. I'm not really happy about this news.
Regardless I will get some in car videos, and a movie of me painting 2 black lines for you guys :P
I didn't do it. Front side housing housing is normally the oil feed near the dizzy/cas hole. Pictures will explain my oil feed. My oil return is a piece of AL pipe welded into the front cover near the flat spot around the OMP. OMP has to be blocked off however as there is no room anymore.
Here are my setup pics
BAD NEWS
Late last year when I was still banging my head against the wall trying to get the hacked up and adapted S5 Turbo intake to work properly on my 12A. This is before the turbo. Anyway I measured the compression of my engine on a 'key' day to decide to just drop it and go IDA down draft throttle bodies. The compression measured 97 front 102 rear (I assume I can't remember which was which). Today I retested it, as a benchmark, expecting something very close to last time. Anyway I measured it warm, but not hot, and it was 85 front, 92 rear. I'm not really happy about this news.
Regardless I will get some in car videos, and a movie of me painting 2 black lines for you guys :P
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02-17-09, 02:05 PM
#8
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ATF treatment needed? A friend has a 13B with similar numbers (ported as well) and it's been starting and running very well for a very long time. I guess I'd be more concerned about the downward trend than raw numbers.
02-17-09, 07:50 PM
#9
I'm not sticking ATF in this engine. It has about $3000AUD worth of new parts in it that are only 2.5 years old. I will fix the high inlet temps by mounting the POD inside the front air dam, and by getting the FMIC plumbed into the system. I feel that will drop the temperature of the air the engine in ingesting by a good 100degC.
ATM its sucking air thats already passed through the radiator, and compressing that in the turbo. I'm thinking its not unreasonable to assume air temp in the intake at around 120-130degC
ATM its sucking air thats already passed through the radiator, and compressing that in the turbo. I'm thinking its not unreasonable to assume air temp in the intake at around 120-130degC
02-23-09, 11:13 PM
#13
Its at the shop right now. I still need to relocate the battery to the inside of the car. So I will have all the pipes made up, as well as somewhere to put my air temp sensor 
I'm also getting a boss put in between the turbo and pod pipe so I can run pre-turbo water injection later.
I'm also getting a boss put in between the turbo and pod pipe so I can run pre-turbo water injection later.
03-18-09, 09:36 AM
#18
I got 3 runs in at the drag strip tonight. I'm not using my fancy intercooler pipes yet, EBC is not wired in yet, no water injection or charge cooling, just a nice rich mixture.
Run #1 FIRST EVER in any car 14.29 @ 96.38MPH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJp45zwUPs
Run #2 SECOND EVVER in any car 14.58 @ 97.91MPH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baPpXmgKjXo
Run #3 I'm not uploading, I added 10% fuel via req_fuel increase from 7.0 to 7.7 to see if I could trap more speed, and I blew out the spark mind run and ran 15.8x @ 93.xxMPH
Run #1 FIRST EVER in any car 14.29 @ 96.38MPH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJp45zwUPs
Run #2 SECOND EVVER in any car 14.58 @ 97.91MPH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baPpXmgKjXo
Run #3 I'm not uploading, I added 10% fuel via req_fuel increase from 7.0 to 7.7 to see if I could trap more speed, and I blew out the spark mind run and ran 15.8x @ 93.xxMPH
03-18-09, 08:00 PM
#20
Your guess is as good as mine! I have the IAT sensor in the engine bay, if i can control heatsoak its about 60degC under bonnet, with a hole for my pod pipe I imagine by turbo is taking air between 50 and 20 degrees and heating it to about 80-100degC
03-22-09, 07:24 AM
#21
Megasquirt EBC is in and working (clicking). I'm yet to hit full throttle with it there to test, but I feel like there is more turbo whistle in 1st and 2nd gear at lower revs. I have it very aggressively set below 2000rpm because I know its impossible for the car to overboost there.
03-29-09, 02:08 AM
#22
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Hello,
I also have one 12A stock, after start reading about Megasquirt i get interested, have read many threads on this forum, follow many links and see many ideas.
It was soo many that now i start to get confused, too many information to fload the brain.
I have some question for anyone that already did/know this setup and wants to replay.
1- Consider buy megasquirt 3.57 extra, what other parts i need to buy from same place?
2- In 12A engine will it use the signals from dizzy or need to add one to the crank?
3- Stock Coolant temp sensor can be used or need to add a new one?
3- For N/A engine what will be the normal injector size to use 4x 400~500cc ?
Staged or continous mode?
4- is there a place were we can get the base maps and "codes" to start ?
5- For 3.57 extra i will need to make what changes?
I know how to read electronic circuits, donīt have problems in solder "already have tune some otto engines with EFI similiar to MS", this for me is the easy part, what make more confusion
is the fact that there is soo many board versions, codes and modifications that i donīt know were to start if i buy this unit, so i look for someone that already did it on a 12A engine.
Any replay, links is ok for me.
Tanks in advance
I also have one 12A stock, after start reading about Megasquirt i get interested, have read many threads on this forum, follow many links and see many ideas.
It was soo many that now i start to get confused, too many information to fload the brain.
I have some question for anyone that already did/know this setup and wants to replay.
1- Consider buy megasquirt 3.57 extra, what other parts i need to buy from same place?
2- In 12A engine will it use the signals from dizzy or need to add one to the crank?
3- Stock Coolant temp sensor can be used or need to add a new one?
3- For N/A engine what will be the normal injector size to use 4x 400~500cc ?
Staged or continous mode?
4- is there a place were we can get the base maps and "codes" to start ?
5- For 3.57 extra i will need to make what changes?
I know how to read electronic circuits, donīt have problems in solder "already have tune some otto engines with EFI similiar to MS", this for me is the easy part, what make more confusion
is the fact that there is soo many board versions, codes and modifications that i donīt know were to start if i buy this unit, so i look for someone that already did it on a 12A engine.
Any replay, links is ok for me.
Tanks in advance
03-30-09, 01:01 AM
#23
I would buy a MS2 CPU with a 3.0 PCB kit. You should also buy an extra LM1815N chip from the supplier. I would buy a TIP120 Darlington transistor, and also some (3?) IRLZ44Z MOSFETs.
The easiest (and most expensive) way of fuel injecting the 12A is with a downdraft IDA manifold, and a 50mm ida style throttle body that has provision for 4 petrol injectors.
You can do fuel only, or fuel and spark. I have always controlled spark with Megasquirt. I would probably suggest doing this as well. The easiest parts list is.
Megasquirt 2 with V3.0 PCB kit
Extra LM1815N chip
Extra transistors and mosfets I said above
Series 4 Turbo RX-7 (approx build date 1986 to 1988) waterpump with standard water temp sensor.
Either IDA intake, or 1986 through 1991 RX-7 Turbo intake and ASK adaptor plate.
If you want to use ASK adaptor plate I suggest you also find a primary iron that has injector provisions in it. I would suggest factory 12A Turbo centre irons, or GSL-SE centre irons from America. You will need to check the bolt spacing differences for yourself.
If you plan on going turbo buy the boost solenoid kit from the reseller too.
Regarding maps I have already posted my full setup map on this forum. When you understand the system well enough you will be able to understand the settings you are putting in.
Regarding injectors I would suggest finding 4 S5 Turbo Injectors, called purple tops they can be faded to be nearly red at their age now tho. The part number on the side is 195500-2020. They are very good petrol injectors, high impedance, and flow 550cc/min, which is perfect.
Regardless of the 2 intake setups I have tried, I have always used staged, continuous injection. You just set the ECU to 2 injectors (even if the engine has 4), and depending on Megasquirt1 or Megasquirt 2 CPU you get it into a staged mode.
Also I would suggest NOT porting the engine, and using the TII intake, with a TII turbocharger as well. Injection and street porting does NOTHING compared to the power boost a turbo gives.
The easiest (and most expensive) way of fuel injecting the 12A is with a downdraft IDA manifold, and a 50mm ida style throttle body that has provision for 4 petrol injectors.
You can do fuel only, or fuel and spark. I have always controlled spark with Megasquirt. I would probably suggest doing this as well. The easiest parts list is.
Megasquirt 2 with V3.0 PCB kit
Extra LM1815N chip
Extra transistors and mosfets I said above
Series 4 Turbo RX-7 (approx build date 1986 to 1988) waterpump with standard water temp sensor.
Either IDA intake, or 1986 through 1991 RX-7 Turbo intake and ASK adaptor plate.
If you want to use ASK adaptor plate I suggest you also find a primary iron that has injector provisions in it. I would suggest factory 12A Turbo centre irons, or GSL-SE centre irons from America. You will need to check the bolt spacing differences for yourself.
If you plan on going turbo buy the boost solenoid kit from the reseller too.
Regarding maps I have already posted my full setup map on this forum. When you understand the system well enough you will be able to understand the settings you are putting in.
Regarding injectors I would suggest finding 4 S5 Turbo Injectors, called purple tops they can be faded to be nearly red at their age now tho. The part number on the side is 195500-2020. They are very good petrol injectors, high impedance, and flow 550cc/min, which is perfect.
Regardless of the 2 intake setups I have tried, I have always used staged, continuous injection. You just set the ECU to 2 injectors (even if the engine has 4), and depending on Megasquirt1 or Megasquirt 2 CPU you get it into a staged mode.
Also I would suggest NOT porting the engine, and using the TII intake, with a TII turbocharger as well. Injection and street porting does NOTHING compared to the power boost a turbo gives.
03-30-09, 03:56 AM
#24
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Ok, tanks Jobro.
I start now to goo deeper on this.
I know that after i have it running on my 12A N/A later i can use it with turbo or in other 13B.
I will get all the parts need for turbo also for later usage, and tell me, should i buy from MS also the test board?
Since iīm in Europe i can get here cheap ITBīs from some bikes like CBR900 RR or others, that have already 4 injectors (only 190cc each, but can be change), also this package will have TPS,
VAC sensors built in, than i can make the mainfold, i just donīt know if this 4 ITBīs are good to go turbo later or if is better 2 TBīs.
Regarding the maps, i have try fo find it before and today try again, maybe iīm not using the correct words, what also makes confusion is the codes, extra codes etc.
Please give me link for you full setup, and tanks for your replay
I start now to goo deeper on this.
I know that after i have it running on my 12A N/A later i can use it with turbo or in other 13B.
I will get all the parts need for turbo also for later usage, and tell me, should i buy from MS also the test board?
Since iīm in Europe i can get here cheap ITBīs from some bikes like CBR900 RR or others, that have already 4 injectors (only 190cc each, but can be change), also this package will have TPS,
VAC sensors built in, than i can make the mainfold, i just donīt know if this 4 ITBīs are good to go turbo later or if is better 2 TBīs.
Regarding the maps, i have try fo find it before and today try again, maybe iīm not using the correct words, what also makes confusion is the codes, extra codes etc.
Please give me link for you full setup, and tanks for your replay
