We are in the process of assembling a 20b for a jc cosmo, the block has been studded and we are using scr apex seals and have extend ported all the ports and hoping 600+hp, We are in the process of deciding what ECU to use for this project and want to know if anyone has used ms3 for a 20b yet?

 

I doubt it, but the 20B is fully supported in the 1.1 code.

Ken

 

Hi Ken if you don't mind I would like to run our ideas past you and get your input if there is anything we should change, We were looking at buying the assembled ms3 with the ms3x board fitted and are considering buying a full set of 8 ls1 coils of ebay as you can pick them up for around $180 making it very cost effective and from the 10 minutes I have spent looking at the ms3 manuals would be very simple to wire up. We have a set of 6 high impedance injectors which should also be very simple to wire up, and we were looking at using factory sensors for the rest of the setup,
We have a large aftermarket HKS turbo and exhaust manifold which may not be big enough for what we want but we are going to just try it and see.
Hopefully the engine will be assembled tomorrow and we will be ready to start fitting it!
Any suggestions on how we can make it easier or better would be greatly appreciated many thanks from Stu

 

I'm actually in this boat as well. My 20b is still waiting to get stacked, however my MS3/X are built. Are you planning on using the CAS or swapping to the FD front cover?

I've actually been meaning to start a thread to double check that the build choices and configuration choices I've made are going to be compatible.

 

We were going to use the cas, we are trying to keep it fairly simple, Im guessing you are switching to an FD front cover?

The rotors were all assembled last night so we hopefully get it stacked today, Ill post some pics up of it going together.

The owner will be heading to sea for a month at the end of the week so it will go on hold for that time and then we will be back into it again and hope to have it running 2-3 weeks after he gets back, The only thing we need is ecu and coils and to make a loom, we have the rest of the setup already to go.

 

I'm using the CAS, I figured it was a simpler option as well. Did you deviate from the MS3 build instructions at all? Leave out any components?

 

Well, normally I wouldn't suggest using alpha code for your first MS project, but in this case it is pretty stable. You are stuck with it because 1.1 alpha is the first one to support 3-rotor ingnition and sequential injection.

I don't really have any advice, but I will keep an eye on this thread and help with specific questions.

Ken

 

Got the basic block together last night and will get the sump front cover etc on it today so the project is moving on, Ill keep updating the progress.

 

We've got an alternative to the CAS that megasquirt users can take advantage of.. 36 tooth motronic style trigger kits.

The more I look at the MS3 software, the more impressed I am with it. Some cool stuff in there that not many ECU's are capable of.

 

Well I have been talking to our local tuner here about going ms3 and he was not that keen, He basically compared it to a mircotech due to the lack of resolution, he has tuned a 13b and a v8 running ms3 and had in his words average results, but when a questioned him on it he had only tuned them using only 1 fuel table and 1 spark table and not used the extra's available, Now I'm not an expert on this and have only had a play with tunerstudio for about an hour and can really only fumble my way through the basics, So I have some questions is it easy enough to set it up to automatically switch between fuel and spark tables?
If anyone of the experts out there have tested ms3 on the bench for a 20b is it possible to get a copy of the file so we can open it up and have a look at the settings that we would need for the 20b and if they would be so kind to set it up with table switching enabled so we can get our heads around it that would even be a bigger help, We could then take the file to our tuner and convince him its a good idea to go MS3,
I think that the tuner basically doesn't have the time to learn about setting MS3 up to maximize its performance.
I have talked to several tuners around the country and they all write it off saying "you get what you pay for" But I don't be-leave any of them have ever spent the time to learn about it and prefer to go for an ecu already configured for a particular type of engine.
I realize its a big ask for someone to take the time to set this file up for us but if someone would be kind enough to do it we would be greatly appreciated.
We would like to try and change the tuners views on this ecu by showing them it setup with the extra resolution and ultimately have this 20b running very well on it.
I look forward to any input anyone would like to put forward many thanks Stu

We have got the block now together now I have added a pic

 

The "resolution" issue is a non issue. Most of the other guys like microtech don't interpolate between bins. As far as tuner results go, of he got average results he probably didn't try that hard. I know of many instances where people have switched to ms3 from other ems systems and said we compared favorably.

Ken

 

I haven't really sat down to fully configure mine yet, but I was planning on using AaronCake's FC writeup adapted to MS3/X. You can find some startup maps on his site walkthrough, as well as good explanations on alot of the different configuration parameters specific to rotary. It's for MS2 though.

http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/megasquirt/ProgramMS2.asp

Also, there's a page if you go to the full directory (not the links of the doc page http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/ ) where you can find more docs, specifically MS3 1.1 related rotary settings.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/rotary.html
Also sounds like you need a better tuner =/

 

Well after a long break from this project it is now all go again, we have decided to go ms3x and have got everything we need now, the engine is in and the fuel system all done just need to fit the coils and wire up the ecu, so should have it running by the end of September if it all goes to plan!

 

Good news! Planning on full COP split ignition and sequential staging support? Do you still need a base settings msq?

 

Yeah that would be great if you can supply a base settings msq, we have 6 id1000 injectors, d585 ls2 truck coils, and gm air temp and coolent sensors, We want to use the idle valve, and use ecu to control the fan, the engine is street ported, We are not going to tune it ourselves it will go straight to the dyno after we have given a short run just to check for leaks etc. It would be great to get an msq with all the correct setup information in it to begin with so we can get the most out of this setup.

 

Ok so we started it today, seems to be all good, it was a motivational start as the trailing coils are not wired up yet we are waiting for more plugs to turn up from the states, we also have to wire up the idle valve, Theres another week or twos work to get the car ready for the dyno and the owner is away shortly for a couple of weeks so Im guessing another month before we get it tuned, All the same very happy off to have a first start beer!
Heres a video of it sorry about the sound quality the car only has the downpipe for an exhaust at the moment and my phone camera didn't likle it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR6S...ature=youtu.be

 

That is awesome news. Glad to see someone running > 2 rotors on ms3. Now to get someone to run a 4-rotor.

 

It's on my very long list of projects...

 

Time to bump up the priority on that one then? ;-)

 

<<<@!1!@>>>

I agree, Time to bring that one to the top of the list Aaron!
I have attached an msq with the tune thats on the car if anyone wants to have a look over it and make any suggestions that would be much appreciated, I have attached a better quality video of it running as well.

 

It's an awesome ecu, and like you said there's a ton of features that you won't see elsewhere. The autotune is superior and really easy to setup. It's really great that it's so easy to upgrade with their firmware updates ever so often. Although I'm still waiting for the feature that I personally need Muythaiboxer...

 

For that particular feature, James explained our issues. We'll get it in at some point but verifying it is a bit painful so we have not gotten to it yet.

 

Yup, you or him explained that 50degrees could be done but more you had problems, I only need 40-50.

 

A quick update, the car has been down to the dyno but with some dissapointing results, the igniton is cutting out under load at about 4500rpm, not sure whats causing the issue I will take some logs in the next few days to try and get on top of it.

 

Something easy to overlook after you start tuning, make sure your overboost protection is set higher than your peak recorded boost. I has having massive missfires and backfires under full load took me longer than I'd like to admit before I figured out that it was set about 10kpa too low. There is a data channel in Megalog viewer that can display when you encounter overboost cut, but I can't remember the obscure name/value off the top of my head.

Also, what kind of shape are you plugs in? Done a lot of idling and rich driving getting the tune dialed in?