Want to Strenthen and de-vibrate door panels, tips ?
12-16-08, 02:51 AM
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Want to Strenthen and de-vibrate door panels, tips ?
OK, so the door panels in my FD seem very flimsy, when you open and close, the flex quite a bit, and also make terrible cracking/squeaking noises. Also the passenger door handle is coming out from the panel so i tell people to gingerly pull it shut.
SOOOOOOOOOOO............. i was hoping to spend a day or two and remove them, somehow reinforce it for much better strength to reduce the flex as much as possible, zero flex would be nice, and besides making it solid, i would like to just all around reduce any vibrations and rattles.
i have zero experience working with any kind of epoxies or fiberglass so keep it simple, but i am hoping to get some tips and directions on what to get and how to apply it from people that may have done this kinda thing before..
Like what is the best product to get the strongest result for what i am aiming for? thanks guys <3
SOOOOOOOOOOO............. i was hoping to spend a day or two and remove them, somehow reinforce it for much better strength to reduce the flex as much as possible, zero flex would be nice, and besides making it solid, i would like to just all around reduce any vibrations and rattles.
i have zero experience working with any kind of epoxies or fiberglass so keep it simple, but i am hoping to get some tips and directions on what to get and how to apply it from people that may have done this kinda thing before..
Like what is the best product to get the strongest result for what i am aiming for? thanks guys <3
12-16-08, 03:04 AM
#2
this might need to go in the interior section
I was thinking about this same thing because I'm sick and tired of my door panels being so crummy.
My idea to strengthen the door panels is to line the inside with fiberglass. Then fiberlass in some aluminum brace's in areas that are weak or that flex easily. then go over that with the spray on foam you can get at Home Depot. Cut the foam and sand it to fit the contours of the door. Then put some sound insulation on the sheetmetal of the doors. Also new door panel fasteners.
I was thinking about this same thing because I'm sick and tired of my door panels being so crummy.
My idea to strengthen the door panels is to line the inside with fiberglass. Then fiberlass in some aluminum brace's in areas that are weak or that flex easily. then go over that with the spray on foam you can get at Home Depot. Cut the foam and sand it to fit the contours of the door. Then put some sound insulation on the sheetmetal of the doors. Also new door panel fasteners.
12-16-08, 03:56 AM
#3
need mo monies
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i stuck a work-cloth(yellow) in the pocket of the door (the one where the lid always breaks off)
it stopped the rattling. also stuffed the passenger handle with double-sided tape.. ghetto fixes.. but its not visible and the noise is gone!
more on interior fab work.. i had the exact same idea as Dmoney. i was even thinking of just eliminating the whole plastic look, and make it like the lotus elise interior.
it stopped the rattling. also stuffed the passenger handle with double-sided tape.. ghetto fixes.. but its not visible and the noise is gone!
more on interior fab work.. i had the exact same idea as Dmoney. i was even thinking of just eliminating the whole plastic look, and make it like the lotus elise interior.
12-16-08, 08:09 AM
#4
Please somebody help!!!
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I read somewhere, someone pulled the door panel off and wound plumber's tape around and through the door handle. Solid as a rock he said.
I would like to see a permanent solution, myself. I forgot to tell someone not to use the handle and they ripped the plastic off of the door.
poor car.
I would like to see a permanent solution, myself. I forgot to tell someone not to use the handle and they ripped the plastic off of the door.
poor car.
12-16-08, 10:38 AM
#6
Fabes,
There are several threads on repairing the passenger side handle. Here's another:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/new-improved-passenger-door-handle-fix-56063/
I would recommend taking the door skins off and using some dampening material. I used the B-Quiet material on my doors a few years ago:
http://www.bquiet.com/
It's very easy to use, doesn't make a mess, and doesn't have an odor during the warm months. There's a thread in the Interior section talking about various other dampening materials:
https://www.rx7club.com/interior-exterior-audio-26/sound-dampening-information-151598/
There are several threads on repairing the passenger side handle. Here's another:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/new-improved-passenger-door-handle-fix-56063/
I would recommend taking the door skins off and using some dampening material. I used the B-Quiet material on my doors a few years ago:
http://www.bquiet.com/
It's very easy to use, doesn't make a mess, and doesn't have an odor during the warm months. There's a thread in the Interior section talking about various other dampening materials:
https://www.rx7club.com/interior-exterior-audio-26/sound-dampening-information-151598/
12-17-08, 02:37 AM
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Thank you all for your comments, i think i might attempt to do a fiberglass/resin overlay and maybe throw some plumbers tape into the mix for extra strength, however i have never fiberglassed any tips? what to get and application tips? i googled it and maybe im just not searching the right places but havent seen much of anything really informative.
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12-17-08, 03:17 AM
#8
If you do this, I would recommend doing it like this (I haven't done this but have been thinking about it alot so you don't have to go through alot of pain).
For Materials:
1) I would use fiberglass matt (cloth is harder to work with in the curves. It is also more forgiving to a newbie at fiberglassing).
2) A can of standard bondo resin
3) Get about 10-20 throw away brushes (they are about .50 to 1.00), then cut the bristles in half (this will stiffen it up so you can apply the resin easier, also not as much resin will be wasted by sticking in the bristles)
4) Latex Gloves
5) Mask (inhaling fiberglass and resin fumes is pretty dangerous)
6) Aluminum Foil (i'll explain this and the masking tape down below)
7) Masking tape
Process:
1) Check that the resin doesn't burn through the foam that is on the backside of the door panel. If it does then you should apply the spray on foam first. (I don't think the resin will though, but check just in case)
2) Test fit the door panel with your plastics and its fitment to the door to make sure that is how you want it (after you fiberglass it their is pretty much no turning back)
3) Cover the vinyl side in aluminum foil and seal with masking tape. Do about 2 or 3 layers and cover everything that isn't the backside.
4) Work in small sections. I suggest begin on the flatter side of the door panel (meaning the area further away from the engine)
5) Apply a light coating of resin on the area you are going to apply the matt
6) Lay small portions of matt on the resin'd area. (I normally rip apart the matt in about 3x3inch sections depending on the contours or area I am working on. If you are applying matt on an area where their are sharp curves or any curves, use smaller portions of matt)
7) Coat the matt with resin until it isn't white.
8) Do this to the entire panel
9) I don't know how strong one layer would be for this so I would suggest doing 2 layers.
10) Apply a good amount spray on Foam
11) Fit it to door to find areas where it needs to be shaved/cut
12) Cut and shave areas where necessary for tight fitment
That should do it. If this you got more questions. Google "speakerbox fiberglassing" or something along those lines and you will get a bunch of fiberglass tutorials.
Last tips:
1) Don't add too much catalyst to your resin because it will harden very fast. if you add way too much it will just shoot up in flames. I suggest using the amount it suggest to use on the resin can. (because you are doing a panel this size I would probably use a bit less)
2) The more time you put into test fitting the panel to make sure the panel is tight and straight (least amount of flex) before you add fiberglass, the better the outcome will be.
For Materials:
1) I would use fiberglass matt (cloth is harder to work with in the curves. It is also more forgiving to a newbie at fiberglassing).
2) A can of standard bondo resin
3) Get about 10-20 throw away brushes (they are about .50 to 1.00), then cut the bristles in half (this will stiffen it up so you can apply the resin easier, also not as much resin will be wasted by sticking in the bristles)
4) Latex Gloves
5) Mask (inhaling fiberglass and resin fumes is pretty dangerous)
6) Aluminum Foil (i'll explain this and the masking tape down below)
7) Masking tape
Process:
1) Check that the resin doesn't burn through the foam that is on the backside of the door panel. If it does then you should apply the spray on foam first. (I don't think the resin will though, but check just in case)
2) Test fit the door panel with your plastics and its fitment to the door to make sure that is how you want it (after you fiberglass it their is pretty much no turning back)
3) Cover the vinyl side in aluminum foil and seal with masking tape. Do about 2 or 3 layers and cover everything that isn't the backside.
4) Work in small sections. I suggest begin on the flatter side of the door panel (meaning the area further away from the engine)
5) Apply a light coating of resin on the area you are going to apply the matt
6) Lay small portions of matt on the resin'd area. (I normally rip apart the matt in about 3x3inch sections depending on the contours or area I am working on. If you are applying matt on an area where their are sharp curves or any curves, use smaller portions of matt)
7) Coat the matt with resin until it isn't white.
8) Do this to the entire panel
9) I don't know how strong one layer would be for this so I would suggest doing 2 layers.
10) Apply a good amount spray on Foam
11) Fit it to door to find areas where it needs to be shaved/cut
12) Cut and shave areas where necessary for tight fitment
That should do it. If this you got more questions. Google "speakerbox fiberglassing" or something along those lines and you will get a bunch of fiberglass tutorials.
Last tips:
1) Don't add too much catalyst to your resin because it will harden very fast. if you add way too much it will just shoot up in flames. I suggest using the amount it suggest to use on the resin can. (because you are doing a panel this size I would probably use a bit less)
2) The more time you put into test fitting the panel to make sure the panel is tight and straight (least amount of flex) before you add fiberglass, the better the outcome will be.
Last edited by DMoneyRX-7; 12-17-08 at 03:23 AM.
12-17-08, 11:26 AM
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this is great, and exactly what i was hoping for, thank you. 
last question is what kind, brand of Matt, Catalyst?, and spray foam. and if i go to the store and ask for standard bondo resin, will they give me the right kind?
Im gonna practice on this honda civic door panel i have laying around and once i think i got the hang of it ill try to tackle this and take pictures, so i can post a write up. I will also do some more research. Thanks again DMoneyRX-7
last question is what kind, brand of Matt, Catalyst?, and spray foam. and if i go to the store and ask for standard bondo resin, will they give me the right kind?
Im gonna practice on this honda civic door panel i have laying around and once i think i got the hang of it ill try to tackle this and take pictures, so i can post a write up. I will also do some more research. Thanks again DMoneyRX-7
12-17-08, 03:32 PM
#10
To fix the passenger side door pull handle I did something similar to what was linked above, but without the plummer strap. I simply drilled two pilot holes, put screws partially in to each hole. Scratched the inner surface of the plastic handle btwn the two screws with some 36 grit and laid some fiberglass resin and pre-cut glass fabric, hooking the fabric on the two screw heads. Been there about 6 years now and out lasted my two teenagers.
Similar method use to reinforce the bottom side of the flip-up cover on the driver's side door. I used some black leather from an old seat to cover the fiberglass.
Similar method use to reinforce the bottom side of the flip-up cover on the driver's side door. I used some black leather from an old seat to cover the fiberglass.
12-17-08, 03:40 PM
#11
To fix the passenger side door pull handle I did something similar to what was linked above, but without the plummer strap. I simply drilled two pilot holes, put screws partially in to each hole. Scratched the inner surface of the plastic handle btwn the two screws with some 36 grit and laid some fiberglass resin and pre-cut glass fabric, hooking the fabric on the two screw heads. Been there about 6 years now and out lasted my two teenagers.
Similar method use to reinforce the bottom side of the flip-up cover on the driver's side door. I used some black leather from an old seat to cover the fiberglass.
Similar method use to reinforce the bottom side of the flip-up cover on the driver's side door. I used some black leather from an old seat to cover the fiberglass.
12-17-08, 03:43 PM
#12
this is great, and exactly what i was hoping for, thank you.
last question is what kind, brand of Matt, Catalyst?, and spray foam. and if i go to the store and ask for standard bondo resin, will they give me the right kind?
Im gonna practice on this honda civic door panel i have laying around and once i think i got the hang of it ill try to tackle this and take pictures, so i can post a write up. I will also do some more research. Thanks again DMoneyRX-7
last question is what kind, brand of Matt, Catalyst?, and spray foam. and if i go to the store and ask for standard bondo resin, will they give me the right kind?
Im gonna practice on this honda civic door panel i have laying around and once i think i got the hang of it ill try to tackle this and take pictures, so i can post a write up. I will also do some more research. Thanks again DMoneyRX-7
Are you asking what catalyst is? Catalyst is otherwise known as "hardener." Sometimes it comes with the resin and sometimes it doesn't. Any hardener will do. They come in either small plastic tubes or plastic bottles.
Oh, no problem man. Besides, I can pick up where/if you fail. Haha. If you got anymore questions just pm me.
I can't swear by any spray on foam because I have never used any but muibubbles just did a recent thread on replacing the foam underneath the carpeting and he used foam called "Great Stuff." This is what it looks like (taken from muibubbles homepage).
All these materials can be found at your Autozone or O'Reily's in the paint section. You can even get it at wallmart. Just look for a can that is labelled "Bondo Fiberglass Resin." It should have a picture of a boat or something on the front. Most likely the color of the can is green or purple.
Last edited by DMoneyRX-7; 12-17-08 at 03:45 PM.
12-17-08, 04:46 PM
#13
not a great write up but something you can use as reference to understand...
http://muibubbles.blogspot.com/2008/...ectrician.html
12-17-08, 05:58 PM
#14
im no expert but ive played around with FG and consider myself "fairly" knowledgable..
some credentials...
https://www.rx7club.com/ne-rx-7-forum-30/bubble-tech-fabrication-803779/
This is just some of my input, do not take offense if i say something i dont mean it like that just lazy to type it politely haaha
i have zero experience working with any kind of epoxies or fiberglass so keep it simple, but i am hoping to get some tips and directions on what to get and how to apply it from people that may have done this kinda thing before..
-basic FG for sub enclosure, useful for reference
My idea to strengthen the door panels is to line the inside with fiberglass. Then fiberlass in some aluminum brace's in areas that are weak or that flex easily. then go over that with the spray on foam you can get at Home Depot. Cut the foam and sand it to fit the contours of the door. Then put some sound insulation on the sheetmetal of the doors. Also new door panel fasteners.
-IMO spray foam will get messy then contouring them to the door panel = PITA
more on interior fab work.. i had the exact same idea as Dmoney. i was even thinking of just eliminating the whole plastic look, and make it like the lotus elise interior.
-idk what exactly youre referring to but my pass door handle broke off so i just fiberglassed the whole plastic piece into one.. strong and sturdy as hell
I would recommend taking the door skins off and using some dampening material. I used the B-Quiet material on my doors a few years ago:
http://www.bquiet.com/
It's very easy to use, doesn't make a mess, and doesn't have an odor during the warm months. There's a thread in the Interior section talking about various other dampening materials:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=151598
-if youre referring to the echo noise and the "glunk" when slamming the door then sound deading is the solution. cant testify to any of those but i just coated the inside of my doors with quiet coat. (http://www.quietcoat.com/)
i got the gallon, added 3 coats to the inside door and coated the whole car twice with a little more then 1/3 of the gallon left.. some pics..
http://muibubbles.blogspot.com/2008/...-deadener.html
It DEFFINATELY works, its still loud cuz the doors are 16 years old and insanely heavy but its a nice clean "thump" noise. DEF worth doing.
For Materials:
1) I would use fiberglass matt (cloth is harder to work with in the curves. It is also more forgiving to a newbie at fiberglassing).
2) A can of standard bondo resin
3) Get about 10-20 throw away brushes (they are about .50 to 1.00), then cut the bristles in half (this will stiffen it up so you can apply the resin easier, also not as much resin will be wasted by sticking in the bristles)
4) Latex Gloves
5) Mask (inhaling fiberglass and resin fumes is pretty dangerous)
6) Aluminum Foil (i'll explain this and the masking tape down below)
7) Masking tape
-1 from my expierences, matt is better for corners, cloth is better for straight/flatt surfaces
2 bondo is the brand and just ask for "fiberglass resin" autozone, home depot or lowes have it
3 dont need that many just plan it out so you dont have to waste brushes. never tried the cutting the bristles but can imagine that working well, will try that next time..
4 def a must, resin on your skin is worse then hot wax, it will take your hair out lol
5 i dont use it but im not safe, i kinda like the smell
6-7 if you clip my previous link i perfer masking tape, imo its much easier to use
8(if youre molding somethign you will need a lubrication i perfer petroleum jelly
last question is what kind, brand of Matt, Catalyst?, and spray foam. and if i go to the store and ask for standard bondo resin, will they give me the right kind?
-the catalyst is included with the resin, make sure its there when you buy it
the great stuff spray foam i used is kinda tricky as it expands, idk if you want to use it, i need more practice with it.. the term "bondo" can mean 2 things. bondo is the actual company that makes the product, but bondo can also mean body filler.
i got kinda lazy and didnt read the rest of the post.. but im planning on doing something similar to this later on. but not to the extreme where im strengthening the whole panel as i dont think its neccessary. my mail goal will be strengthening the plastics and strengthening the tabs (mostlikely just coat it with resin)
some credentials...
https://www.rx7club.com/ne-rx-7-forum-30/bubble-tech-fabrication-803779/
This is just some of my input, do not take offense if i say something i dont mean it like that just lazy to type it politely haaha
i have zero experience working with any kind of epoxies or fiberglass so keep it simple, but i am hoping to get some tips and directions on what to get and how to apply it from people that may have done this kinda thing before..
-basic FG for sub enclosure, useful for reference
My idea to strengthen the door panels is to line the inside with fiberglass. Then fiberlass in some aluminum brace's in areas that are weak or that flex easily. then go over that with the spray on foam you can get at Home Depot. Cut the foam and sand it to fit the contours of the door. Then put some sound insulation on the sheetmetal of the doors. Also new door panel fasteners.
-IMO spray foam will get messy then contouring them to the door panel = PITA
more on interior fab work.. i had the exact same idea as Dmoney. i was even thinking of just eliminating the whole plastic look, and make it like the lotus elise interior.
-idk what exactly youre referring to but my pass door handle broke off so i just fiberglassed the whole plastic piece into one.. strong and sturdy as hell
I would recommend taking the door skins off and using some dampening material. I used the B-Quiet material on my doors a few years ago:
http://www.bquiet.com/
It's very easy to use, doesn't make a mess, and doesn't have an odor during the warm months. There's a thread in the Interior section talking about various other dampening materials:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=151598
-if youre referring to the echo noise and the "glunk" when slamming the door then sound deading is the solution. cant testify to any of those but i just coated the inside of my doors with quiet coat. (http://www.quietcoat.com/)
i got the gallon, added 3 coats to the inside door and coated the whole car twice with a little more then 1/3 of the gallon left.. some pics..
http://muibubbles.blogspot.com/2008/...-deadener.html
It DEFFINATELY works, its still loud cuz the doors are 16 years old and insanely heavy but its a nice clean "thump" noise. DEF worth doing.
For Materials:
1) I would use fiberglass matt (cloth is harder to work with in the curves. It is also more forgiving to a newbie at fiberglassing).
2) A can of standard bondo resin
3) Get about 10-20 throw away brushes (they are about .50 to 1.00), then cut the bristles in half (this will stiffen it up so you can apply the resin easier, also not as much resin will be wasted by sticking in the bristles)
4) Latex Gloves
5) Mask (inhaling fiberglass and resin fumes is pretty dangerous)
6) Aluminum Foil (i'll explain this and the masking tape down below)
7) Masking tape
-1 from my expierences, matt is better for corners, cloth is better for straight/flatt surfaces
2 bondo is the brand and just ask for "fiberglass resin" autozone, home depot or lowes have it
3 dont need that many just plan it out so you dont have to waste brushes. never tried the cutting the bristles but can imagine that working well, will try that next time..
4 def a must, resin on your skin is worse then hot wax, it will take your hair out lol
5 i dont use it but im not safe, i kinda like the smell
6-7 if you clip my previous link i perfer masking tape, imo its much easier to use
8(if youre molding somethign you will need a lubrication i perfer petroleum jelly
last question is what kind, brand of Matt, Catalyst?, and spray foam. and if i go to the store and ask for standard bondo resin, will they give me the right kind?
-the catalyst is included with the resin, make sure its there when you buy it
the great stuff spray foam i used is kinda tricky as it expands, idk if you want to use it, i need more practice with it.. the term "bondo" can mean 2 things. bondo is the actual company that makes the product, but bondo can also mean body filler.
i got kinda lazy and didnt read the rest of the post.. but im planning on doing something similar to this later on. but not to the extreme where im strengthening the whole panel as i dont think its neccessary. my mail goal will be strengthening the plastics and strengthening the tabs (mostlikely just coat it with resin)
12-17-08, 07:40 PM
#15
Sorry, that was so long ago I don't have pictures. No plans to take the panel off either. Refer to the pictures in Mahjik's link above, or just wait until you remove the handle from the door panel and it will make more sense.
One other small thing. There's a seam from the plastic mold and IIRC I just used just a little tape or a very small amount of silicone caulk to keep any resin from coming through and being visiable after re-installation.
One other small thing. There's a seam from the plastic mold and IIRC I just used just a little tape or a very small amount of silicone caulk to keep any resin from coming through and being visiable after re-installation.
12-18-08, 01:39 AM
#18
have you looked at my pics of the quiet coat? are you guys applying the dynomat/sound deadener in the location? (the door itself where the glass window hides)
if so i cant imagine putting dynomat in there that would be an ultimate PITA, hense why i went with the paint on...
if so i cant imagine putting dynomat in there that would be an ultimate PITA, hense why i went with the paint on...
12-18-08, 01:54 AM
#19
have you looked at my pics of the quiet coat? are you guys applying the dynomat/sound deadener in the location? (the door itself where the glass window hides)
if so i cant imagine putting dynomat in there that would be an ultimate PITA, hense why i went with the paint on...
if so i cant imagine putting dynomat in there that would be an ultimate PITA, hense why i went with the paint on...
they're talking about putting dynomat on where you and dmoney are trying to glass
12-18-08, 02:55 AM
#21
Rotary Freak
Take off the doorpanels, and look for any door framing (against outer ski) that shows rattle. Go and get a tube of body sealer at a specilized car shop or your local bodywork shop and put it between the framing and door skin.
If the door still sounds 'hollow' when closing, add some damping material
If the door still sounds 'hollow' when closing, add some damping material
12-18-08, 04:41 AM
#22
If you layer the inside of the door skin, or you fill the door with foam... you are eliminating the possibility of a dent doctor removing small (and sometimes sizable) dings and dents. You are making dent repair a mandatory paint-work item.
While I agree with doing these mods, I am just pointing out that there is a small disadvantage to certain approaches.
While I agree with doing these mods, I am just pointing out that there is a small disadvantage to certain approaches.
12-18-08, 12:42 PM
#24
If you layer the inside of the door skin, or you fill the door with foam... you are eliminating the possibility of a dent doctor removing small (and sometimes sizable) dings and dents. You are making dent repair a mandatory paint-work item.
While I agree with doing these mods, I am just pointing out that there is a small disadvantage to certain approaches.
While I agree with doing these mods, I am just pointing out that there is a small disadvantage to certain approaches.
With dynamat on the other side of you door, isn't it less likely to get dents in the first place?
