DamonB

I should start doing that. My responses everywhere on the forum would be much shorter and save me a lot of time

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Wow...I guess I learn something new everyday. I was under the impression that it was pretty solidly engineered stuff. Apparently it's just the best marketed (w/ all those exclusive contracts w/ car manufacturers helping....)

Try your local audio shop, even "speciality" shops like Tweeter. Sounds liek you'll have a FIELD DAY there lol

Damon, I don't doubt what you say for a second. You should know that by now. And I'm sure Rynberg woulda chimed in here if you were off your rocker

You sure about that? It sure seemed to lengthen EVERY comment Jim(lab) had to say, as it started *THE* longest on-topic flame wars LOL. Or do you just miss him?

~Ramy

PS: Thanks for the clarification. I think you should know by know I'm not afraid of being wrong as long as it helps me learn what's right

DamonB

Bose is pure marketing. Auto manufacturers are in the business to sell cars; don't forget that. If consumers think Bose is "good" than putting it in a car attracts consumers. Whether the product is actually "good" or not doesn't matter, what the consumer thinks matters. Consumers are people and most people don't know any better. This is true of anything.

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

Corusco

Sorry for the misnomer. I should have said that a wave requires distance to complete its cycle.



Yes, reflection is true of any environment. But the car envrironment presents the same problem with reflection and interference as any small environment with several hard reflective surfaces close to the listener's ear will have. In a larger environment there is a longer distance for a wave to travel before and after bouncing (and hitting the ear in both paths), all the while decaying, so the perceived interference is less at the listener's ear. Just like you said, it definitely is the placement of both speakers and listener in the environment that will affect results, and no one is going to put the listener position right next to a glass wall in a reference listening room even if the listener-speaker relationship is perfect or dsp tuned perfectly for phase response. I know you know all this, and this is what I was talking about.

Which I have for RTA calibration and psychoacoustics research, and I agree, they do sound horrible.

Who said anything about correcting interference with equalization?

Basically, I learned my lesson about posting an incomplete response...if I want to be informative I have to be more thorough. I am still wondering about your old mobile setup, though. Any info on how you ran that?

blackangst

I'm sorry, but you are absolutely wrong in this argument. You are like most people who believe more watts = louder. Partially true, but more importantly more watts = cleaner. Even if you never turn your stereo up more than roadnoise, the QUALITY of sound at 600 watts is faaaarrrrr superior to that of 200 watts.

DamonB

This sounds like you're trying to explain something and it's a whole lot of nothing. A soundwave having to travel a "distance to complete its cycle" has absolutely zero to do with anything here. The wavelength at 100 hz is about 11.5 feet and yet I can put my ear 3" from the speaker and it will sound just the same as if I stand 11 feet from the speaker or I can strap on a pair of headphones and have my ear 1" from the speaker and still hear it the same.

Waves "maturing" or "completing its cycle" is complete and utter nonsense. It's merely an attribute of the frequency.

DamonB

You are like most people and don't fully understand what you're talking about. Watts don't matter; efficiency of the speaker matters. For instance a speaker with a sensitivity of 87 dB will require TWICE the power to achieve the same loudness as a speaker rated at 90 dB. I have heard speakers running on 5 watts that will play so loud in the room it's uncomfortable and they were controlled just fine.

A watt is a unit of power that equals volts X amps. If a car audio amp were truly making 600W and the battery of the car could sustain 13 volts (highly unlikely that the voltage wouldn't sag) then the amplifier is pulling 46 amps through its power cable. Actually it's pulling more than that because amps are not 100% efficient; they waste a lot of energy to heat. So if it were to actually make 600 W at the output it would be pulling somewhere over 50 amps of current. Anybody with a clamp on amp meter can tell you that amplifier isn't pulling 50 amps. Oh! you say, but music is dynamic! It only pulls that amount of current for an instant in time! True. But if the amp is only capable of putting out 600 W for a tiny instant you don't have a 600 W amp.

The only "groundbreaking" stuff in amplifiers to hit car audio in the last 10 years has been the idea you need 1000 W. It's complete horseshit. There are movie theaters that run on 1000 W! In the "old days" when people spoke in real power ratings and the best stuff was built by A/D/S, Soundstream and Precision Power nobody built anything nearly that big and car audio was just as loud and sounded just as good (or better) than it does now. Don't believe everything you read in the little glossy brochures.

You can very easily and cheaply design a speaker that won't blow up when you put 1000 watts through and that means absolutely nothing other than impressing the consumers who have decided that more, more, more is always better.

rynberg

As far as subwoofer frequencies are concerned, there are virtually no concerns over reflections and boundary interferences in a car. In most car cabins, there is no wave propagation below 70-80 Hz. Instead, the entire volume of the car is pressurized -- just like the inside of a speaker enclosure. This results in a "room gain" of approximately 12dB/octave, which is why a 10" driver in a small sealed enclosure can still provide good response down to infrasonic regions. That same driver/enclosure in your living room would be well down in response by 40 Hz.

rynberg

Oh, and Damon's right about Watts.....if the sub in my home theater can generate over 110 dB at the listening position with only a 250W amp, how much power do you need for a car system?

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Hmmm... didn't mean for this thread to turn into something like this...

Just to let you guys know, the 10W7/box is going to be sold if the guy on here still wants it. If not, then the beginning of my fiberglass box/amp rack/false floor has already started, I'll start a new thread on it, once I get started.

KeloidJonesJr.

iTrader: (8)

Serious.