SayNoToPistons

I've already chosen a Vifa 2 way component with 5.5" mids, silk tweeters, and Nakamichi crossovers (i'll probably ditch the Nakamichi's for my own custom DIY crossovers). I know almost nothing about car audio but when it comes to home audio, i think i know my stuff. I don't think two woofers and two tweeter in front will be enough so is it better to buy another set of the Vifas for the rear or just a pair of decent coaxials? I am awesome looking for an amp to power the speakers and perhaps another one to power a subwoofer. I am currently looking at Elemental Designs woofers so i can build one myself instead of going with enclosed crap at crutchfeild or other stores. Headunit i will select by myself (an Alpine or if i go crazy, a Nakamichi or Mcintosh unit). So what do you guys suggest for the rear speakers and the amps? I am not looking for distorted sound that will shake the next time zone, i am looking for a decent sounding set up because i cannot stand listening to mediocre systems while i'm driving.

purerx7

iTrader: (61)

i am a car/home audio nut, but for us to recommend amps and speakers i need a price range. Or you could drop $3000 on this sinfoni amp that i miss more than anything


Honestly car audio is a bit different than home, you dont have all the road and exhaust noise like you do in a car.

SayNoToPistons

I plan on keeping the amp and the rear speakers around the 400-600 dollar range if that is possible. I would like to buy used since that will give me more options with my budget and i don't plan on keeping this set up for a long time. ALso, what do you recommend on sound dampening?

magus2222

iTrader: (22)

well
for a full system, and this is coming from a trained and certified car audio installer
a 4 channel mtx, jbl, polk momo, or kicker amp would be the way to go. the minimum RMS you would want would be ~75, so a $400-600 budget wont due, a good 4 channel will run ~400 alone.
up front, whatever component setup you want, and 75 rms will kick you ***, DO NOT DITCH THE CROSSOVERS and try to make your own, the crossovers that come with the speakers are the best for that set, they are tuned for VERY specific voltage and wattage, unless you are an electrical engineer, then do whatever the **** you want!
i would also suggest a capacitor if the amp is over 1000 watts, if not, then dont trip.
as far as the wiring goes, here is a good setup, and yes, im using windows paint.
my favorite setup was a full system
pioneer headunit, polk momo 6500's all the way around, polk momo 400.4, polk momo 500.1, monster 400 series wiring, monster capacitor, and monster wiring kit. and an ipod adapter that i had to make, oh, and dynomat! the system was ~2G, maybe less, i worked at frys and saved him $$$, employee discounts!
his system, when turned to a decent level, kicked my ***, i had to get out of the car because my ears were ringing, CLEAR, CLEAN, had perfect lows, mids and highs.
it took ~4 days to complete the tear down, dynomat, custom fabbing and wiring, and about 3 hours to tune the headunit and amps. oh, because everything was hidden and under stuff, i used 5 computer fans hooked up to the amp and molded into the amp cabinant i had to make to cool things down, so far a year later and still kicking his ***!

heres an example of how to wire your system

peace

SayNoToPistons

OK, is it completely necessary to go with wiring kits for the amps and speakers? I don't like monster cable quality (and of course the overprice) very much and of course being a (home) audiophile, i like to make my own cables. I am not an
electrical engineer, yet. I happen to love tinkering with these kind of electronics and i liek to build my own things to go with my listening style. I might not go with a sub yet since i'm am not a bass head, and selecting later on might give me a higher budget to work with. So i should go with components in the rear also? Should i buy another pair of the Vifas to match the fronts? Here are the Vifas i plan on buying:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=313

Seems like they're a steal for that price and i believe they should out perform OTC speakers for that price (from what i heard from other people).

What do you guys think of this for sound dampening?
https://www.rx7club.com/interior-exterior-audio-26/quietcoat-sound-dampening-195306/

magus2222

iTrader: (22)

idk, its all preference. thats all, the system that i described above, my friend wanted a money-no-limit system, but if you are going budget find whatever suites you best. personally, i stay away from fiberglass cones, i only **** with carbon fiber (polk momo or infinity kappa) or carbon kevlar (alpine).
and if you can make your own cables, theres a money saver, and go with dynomat, its the oldest stuff on the market, they are easily accessable and super easy to install if you have patients, not terribly cheap, but the best stuff!


preference, keep that in mind

peace

SayNoToPistons

So components for rear also?

magus2222

iTrader: (22)

if you want. you dont have to, but thats just what i suggested, you will get the best sound overall.
if you just wire coaxials in the back, and compenents up front, you will have 2 things.
1) a difference in RMS handling
2) muddier sound in rear due to highs, mids and lows coming from the same source

this is where sound staging comes into play
if you have your lows, which are omni-directional, coming from one source, say 2 subs in the rear, you have your mids, which are semi-directional, coming from a source that is below a certain height (cant remember the technical name for it) and you have highs, which are very directional, coming from a source that is pointed at either your face or reflecting off glass or something else into your face, then you will have the best sound stage possilble

its like this

highs 0 (immagine this being your head)
----------------
mids ( ) (that is your torso or midsection)
----------------
lows __ __ (these are your feet)

thats kinda the way that sound staging works. in the home audio side of it that is the way that sound staging and accoustical balancing is measured, but in a car, its a lot trickier because you are dealing with the different surfaces and textures of the car, the rms of the speakers, etc.......etc.........etc.........

pretty much, yes, components in the rear would give you the best all around sound if you are going to put components up front!

peace

WorkS2R

not to seem like a troll - (and i know this is a rough way to start a post)

but how exactly is that a money-no-limit system?

if money was no object - i'd suggest morel, seas, dynaudio, etc.. not polk, infinity, or alpine.

i'm just curious on how exactly you arrived at that decision considering that the morel supremo tweeters are probably some of the best components (granted at over 1.5k per set, i'd surely hope so)

magus2222

iTrader: (22)

ok, you know what i mean, not like, ***** out, 10k system, we selected all that because that was the best stuff we could get our hands on and our old work. know what i mean? without special ordering custom made speaker sets, its the top end stuff we had readily available to us.
and i see your point

peace

purerx7

iTrader: (61)

ive tried dynaudio, morel, brax, alpine type x etc. but IMO nothing comes close to Rainbow and thats what i run in my car

SayNoToPistons

What about Focals? I've heard their lowest grade components (forgot the model number) but i wasn't impressed...

John64

Toyo, good job looking at the Elemental Designs stuff. I'm currently running a set of the 6500 components and love them. They just came out with a very nice 5 channel amp thats huge. Oh, no need to go components in the rear, not owrth it.

SayNoToPistons

Yeah, i had pretty good results with their subs (and many over at avsforum did also). I built a somewhat cheap (experimental) ~450 dollar sub for the basement theater. I used their 13Ov.2 Subwoofer subwoofer and a Bash 500 watt subwoofer amp from parts express. That was more than enough for the 6.1 book shelf set up in a 12' x 14' x 7 1/2' area.

Do you guys know of any big car audio forums?

WorkS2R

car audio forums are really far and few between... alot of idiots, not enough information (at least from my experience)

but - the ED stuff I used to run was pretty good, I'm running some beymas now, trying out the critical mass sub to see how it runs against my old TCs .. i think in terms of subs - most people who have run higher end stuff know what they want, its more in the mid, mid-high side that there seems to be alot of wishy-wash on

i'd say that as long as you have a good voice set, and a good mid-bass .... to go with a good tweeter set you should be able to set a good sound stage.

just remember to utilise the crossover correctly

WorkS2R

like i said - i was just curious on why you believed it to be, maybe there was something about the sound, the warmth, the collective ability of the entire collection of components that made it what it was..

i mean - i've heard ribbon tweets, horn loaded compression drivers, electro-statics, etc... each have their own deal..

SayNoToPistons

So what would you guys recommend for the components? What do you guys think about the Vifas i've selected form madisound for the price? Amps? Any specific models i should look at?

John64

ED has apretty good forum, but all the people are ED fanatics, so a little biased. They are coming out with new 6800 components that are badass. They also have a new 13" sub coming out that JL is pissed about (scared).

zapco_7

The Vifa's would be an excellent choice. Before I "retired" from the car audio scene, the shop that I used to work for was a nakamichi dealer and Vifa not only makes their components, but they also make them for eclipse. So you can't go wrong with those.

As far as amps, I would recommend Zapco, preferably the old comp Z-series