im curious where i have my sensor should it affect its ablility/speed of reading incoming air temperature?

the reason i ask is because im running water injection and not seeing any temperature drops. i posted on their forum and they are blaming it on my sensor.

think the sensor is too far out of airstream?

btw it came with my haltech but uses a 14mmx1.50 thread if i remeber (all the new ones i see are npt thread. is my sensor not a gm one?)

click to englarge

 

I had the same observation when I ran nitrous a a dyno with temperature data logging equipment. (search my name and you should find my posts) My iAT did not show any thing, but my thermal couples pick up a difference.

Here is my 10 cents

It is the evaporation of the nitrous or water that has the greatest cooling effect and that takes time at a given temperature and pressure. Your IAT is right next to your water injection so it will not pick it up. So use an exhuast temp to gage it's effectiveness.

In the end if you make the same power at lower exhuast temps, or more power at the same exhuast temps the system is effective.

I used the same thermal couple for all of the locations and the one in the exhaust reacted quicker because higher temps. (higher temp = higher heat energy when mass of the thermal couple is equal the heat transfer will occur faster) So that might also explain some of the lag in IAT sensors.

I have run 3 IAT sensor and they all preformed the same.

 

my nozzle is located bout a ft before the iat sensor. not sure if sensor is too far from air stream or whats going on with that.

i posted on water injection forum and most people believe my sensor isnt senstive enough or too far back.
im running water/alcohol

 

i just ordered this, gonna place it on pipe and see if the pipe gets cooler. if haltech sensor doesnt show a drop i might consider palcing sensor elsewhere.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3AIT&viewitem=

 

That sensor location is fairly standard for most 13b's mate. Also I dont think the sensor has changed. It still says they are a M14 1.5
http://www.tweakit.net/shop/product_...roducts_id=152

Are you injecting water pre turbo ?

 

nope (not yet, been considering it as well)

 

Some of my friends found the same result, no change in sensor reading while spraying.

We could pick up a drop in temp across the length of IC piping before and after the nozzle using a IR thermometer though.

Personally, theres alot of factors at play aside from sensor speed/reaction. How much injectant are you spraying? what are you spraying? How long are you spraying (how long do you keep your foot in it)?

If you're not spraying enough, that may be why. Maybe the pulls are too short for the sensor to cool............there could be alot of reasons.

I do agree with above to watch the EGT's as they will give a greater indication of whats happening with regards to the overall picture. If they're stable and not way up in the stratosphere, the AI is doing its job whether the IAT sensor tells you so or not.

 

using a m10 nozzle and injecting washser fluid. before i was injecting duel m10s and didnt make a difference.

 

if you are just injecting water, I doubt you will see a large drop in temps, especially with no pre-turbo jet. The benefit of injecting water happens in the combustion chamber. You will see a drop in EGT and water is THE BEST knock deterrent.

 

Difference to AIT or EGT?

What does the EGT do with the single nozzle off vs. having it on?

 

The metric and NPT sensors are essentially the same.

I've never played with injecting water, only straight methanol. With that I've seen and instant drop in intake temps. The lastest car I've used it on has the temp sensor only a few inches behind the nozzle and it sees the temp drop.

I would guess the cheap Ebay thermometer isn't going to be fast acting enough to offer any real insight.

As mentioned, you need to see what the EGT is doing to get a real idea of what's going on.

 

ya just my egt gauge is kinda hard to look at and drive at the same time haha.
if i remeber the washer fluid was 30% alchol and 70% water.

i tried adding more alcohol to the mix and same

 

IMO to use EGT for tuning you need a logger and a fast response probe. I haven't seen a gauge kit that comes with an open tip, fast response probe. Not saying they're not out there but all of them I've seen have a shielded probe that responds too slowly to be useful in tuning.

 

even with alcohol, with the jet post turbo, I've seen slight AIT improvements... EGT on the other hand.

 

so preturbo makes all the difference huh?

 

a log:

 

Here are two different logs with the same car. First is with ~18 psi the second with ~21. Both used straight methanol with the nozzles about 12" before the sensor. The logs show about a 20* drop from the time we start to build boost through the end of the run from ~100*F to ~80.





This is a log of the same car with a low boost (~14 psi) and high boost (~21 psi) pulls. The low boost is straight pump fuel. The high boost is using the straight methanol. This shows pre-turbo EGT. As you can see we ran a lower EGT with more boost with methanol at a similar a/f ratio. Didn't post these to try to say "use methanol" or to really try to say anything. Just wanted to give you an idea of what we've seen in our logs.

 

wow cool, then i gotta figure out how to datalog egts then. sad thing is i have no more outputs on my e6k.

btw how does my timing look?

 

If you want to get into logging more sensors without upgrading ECUs I'd suggest the Innovate LMA-3. It can do a single channel of EGT, has a built in 3 bar MAP sensor, RPM input and I believe 3 other channels that are programmable. You could input your wideband into the LMA-3 and use it exclusively for logging and not even worry about using the E6K. The Logworks software is very handy as well. Their widebands suck out loud but the other gadgets and software are pretty good.

Timing looks fine. What kind of split are you running at 1 bar?

 

looks like 10* split.its 14*L and 4*T

ill take a look in LAM-3 ,

 

what about a TC-4?

http://innovatemotorsports.com/products/tc_4.php

 

I use a TC-4 as well. It just does thermocouples though. The TC-4 would allow you to log up to 4 thermocouple channels directly to your laptop but that is it. It does not have an analog output which you could log with the ECU if you desired. I use one when I can use one EGT probe per cylinder/rotor. Otherwise, if you are just logging one EGT probe the LMA-3 will do that as well as all the other inputs. This allows you to put all the data into one package and use a software package that is far superior to anything pre-Platinum Haltech.

Short story, if you are just logging one EGT probe I'd get the LMA-3 and just log with it instead of the Haltech. That's actually what I do on most cars.

Another option, if you wanted a single EGT probe, would be the Haltech EGT kit which has a 0-5V output which you could log with your ECU if you have any inputs left.

Also, and I think I mentioned this earlier, you'll need a good open tip thermocouple to be of use for tuning. I like these: http://tscsensors.com/egtep0720001ssnexhau.html The probes that come in most gauge packs have a shielded/insulated tip which makes the response time of the thermocouple too slow to be of any use in tuning.