thank you sir!!
this rookie would have never figured this out. i honestly thought it was flooding from to much fuel. i really had to crank up the primer MAP to get it to fire....
im sure you will have a much easier time than i did!!LOL
all in all. fresh rebuilds ARE in fact touchy!!
all the smoke from the assembly lube and oil was a great site!!!


time to dial this baby in!!

 

Congrats!!

 

do you have any info on what else you had to wire up for a e6k on an FC? Like the wipers and the 2 chassis plugs at the passenger kick panel that connect to the engine harness.

btw, congrats on this!! I know i cant wait to finish mine.

 

the wires for the wipers (series 4) are in the old harness you took out for the stock ECU to motor. the 2 chassis plugs are still lying inside mine. i didnt do anything with them.

 

for some damn reason i still have trouble firing the car...the PRIMER MAP is WAYYYYY up and its still struggling to fire....i have to pump the gas to get it to start....so what else do i need to adjust?? ZERO throttle MAP?
once its started it runs good though.

 

Must be freezing temperatures in PA rightabout this time of year...
1. Set up your cold start maps. Pull values from some base maps.
2. Do you have some sort of cold start and high idle assist? I like my engine to cold start about 2000 rpms for a few minutes.
3. Open up the idle control screw until you have figured out #2.
4. You can also try increase timing under the Ignition Coolant map in the colder reagions by just a few degrees until you get timing lock dead on; colder engines generally want a bit more advance (just a few degrees)

5. As an extremely TEMPORARY assistment only; one more thing is under throttle pumps set the coolant value to about 2.0, and crank up ALL the bars to roughly 35% height. Set throttle pump deadband under fuel setup to 1. Enable throttle pumps.

**** I do this for aiding in cold starting because most likely your engine is looking for more fuel, which a quick throttle pump action will provide untill you get other maps tuned for cold starting with a smooth idling engine; at which point you should COMPLETELY TURN OFF ALL THROTTLE PUMPS and prepare for a proper fine fuel tune. ****

 

I just wanted to make everyone understands my throttle pump technique I suggested above.

I do not condone this as properly tuning the engine, but as a method for inducing a manual "prime" for a fuel starved motor. Its simply a bandaid measure to help him get and keep the engine running while starting and idling maps are ironed out.

Of course we all know and I just want to make it VERY clear that throttle pumps should only be tuned after all main fuel maps are dialed in on a dyno with a wideband by smeone who knows what the hell they are doing.

 

thanks, ill give it try...and yes, its been 30-40 degrees here. today its up to 50 though!

 

well....i got it starting pretty good....BUT, now it wont start at all?
i changed everything back to before i messed with anything (saved older MAPS) and i cant get it to start. i got to drive it down to my new house the other day...ran pretty good....backed it in as normal shut it down, tried to start it again the next day and nothing? i can watch my fuel pressure gauge rise as the fuel pump primes before cranking then it drops down rapidly...i suspect a fuel leak somewhere but i have yet to find one (under manifolds, lying on ground watching for dripping fluids). im wondering if maybe a injector is stuck open?? the few times it ALMOST started it sounded like it ran on 1 rotor or starving for more fuel? the reason i say starving for more fuel becuase i ran outta gas the day before and it sounded exactly the same (4 gallons premixed was poured in the gas tank and it fired right back up then i drove it here). so now im stuck here!! ACK!
i hate being a newbie!!

 

OK so its like 30F degrees in Ludlow PA today.

First let me suggest getting your cards in order here. Obvious stuff like running out of fuel and such shouldnt be part of the equation, especially considering this car has a bunch of mods on it. That being said, have you attempted to verify e6k wiring? Might take a few hours to really get neck deep in tracing things but well worth it for the long haul.

When you reload e6k maps you have to zero the timing all over again. Good practice would be to not reload e6k maps ever. Once you have timing set up just manually transfer values from other maps rather than doing full reloads.

Got fuel? Spark? She should fire. Clear out the combustion chamber. Put about 1 drop of premix for each of 3 full engine rotations per combustin chamber every time the spark plugs are out until you get her fired and running.

Since this is a fresh rebuild, once you get it running KEEP IT RUNNING!! I'm not talking 5 minutes, I'm talking more like 60 minutes!! Let her break in. Dont be dumb though keep a close watch for cooland and oil problems for imidiate shutdown.

The worst thing you can do to flood a rotory is to A. not get it started the first time and B. turning off the engine before full running temperature. Try not to do either. If one or the other happens you may have to remove the plugs again and again.

Put some anti-sieze on the plug threads to protect and preserve thread life and assist with easy spark plug removal.

What happens if you bump the timing 10 degrees and increase the primer and cold trims by 10%?? 20%?? 30%?? My car cold starts with about a 30% increase in enrichenment on cold mornings.

 

WOOO WOOOOOOO Wait a second here... Did I read this right.... You have the fuel pressure set to 30psi? Dude thats WAAAAYY to low for probably any of the e6k maps out there. Get that fuel pump running and kick that thing up to about 43psi!!!

Even with your 850cc injectors... I say get that pressure up cause once the engine starts firing that pressure is gonna drop from 30 to 20psi!! NOOOO GOOOD! Mine idles at 38 psi

 

I bet the maps are starting to hit the left-most bars due to the temps.
You just gotta tune them for the lower temps.
Start with the Primer map - just like before.

Fuel pressure isn't that important, cause the Haltech adjusts pulsewidths.
Sure, you get slightly better fuel atomization with higher rail pressures, but all of that can be compensated by adjusting pulsewidths.


-Ted

 

I agree but just want to add that atomization is harder to do when cold.

20psi under vacum is gonna be pretty sloppy. Give it a try?? Hey if it dont work its not gonna hurt anything anyways and is easier to put back than playing around with 2-4 maps.

 

the fuel pressure was at 30, now @ idle its at 40...the strange part is, as soon as i turn the key the pump turns on and no sooner it stops priming the pressure is already dropping...its pretty much at 10 by the time im able to get form the drivers seat to the engine bay to check.

e6k wiring has been triple checked..when i had it running it ran great!
i got a crappy video somewhere.....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yowkMxH1wSM

thats with about a total of 30 minutes run time in seperate occasioins.
(dont mind the wastegate leak or crappy filming)

im sort of confused here, but the maps im loading are the same ones but i been making slight fuel changes in the primer and such. i go straight to the ignition setup to make sure my trigger angle is set when i timed it and that the timing lock is @ -5 after i load them.
is that what you mean?

the primer MAP is WAYYYY up on mine.
the ignition crank MAP is set to 15 all the way acrossed. i wasnt sure how far i could jack that up?
the ignition coolant starts at 4 HGT and goes to 1...im assuming thats where i should be changing for ignition?

does the zero throttle effect starting at all if enabled?

i havent moved the coolant map much at all which i think is whats effecting me?

 

What kinda fuel pump?
It's either the check valve on the fuel pump is bad, or your FPR is failing...


-Ted

 

Hey would you mind posting up your e6k map? I'd like to take a look. especially since you seem to have an identical setup to mine minus the 800 primaries.

Or you can email it to me at supertegrs@yahoo.com and Im also available on AIM sometimes as atvmasta1

 

OK I saw the "itruns" map you posted a few weeks ago. Are you still running this map??

Couple things I noticed...

1. Under fuel setup, make sure "Post Start Temp Limit" is set to 120 / BELOW (as it is currently set to 120/ABOVE which is incorrect and could cause too much fuel at start)

2. I would also disable the "zero throttle map" under the same section as you really dont need it for MAP correction. Does anybody know if this map interferes with the crank maps?? Ahhh turn it off anyways.

3. Even out the Cold Primer map a bit although your high settings look pretty good. Spread those values in a downward slope from left to right.

4. Under fuel mapts at 500 rpm it looks like you leaned out bars 9 and 10. Get those back in line.

*If you think its flooded, under "Fuel Setup" you can "disable injector outputs" in addition to pulling the fuel pump fuse.

**Take note under MAIN setup you should think about seting the RPM Limit type to Ignition but there are some who think otherwise. Maybe also lower your rev limits to about 7500 depending on motor strength.

 

i just read this real quick as im on my way to work but i did email that map.


thanks and ill be back online tonite to discuss....

 

OK I got your map and I have posted it to this thread for all to see..

OK so I probably have very similar modifications as you with the exception of your primary injectors, and if you would like I could lend you my working map when I get home ut I aint gonna guarantee it.


1. Your cold primer is WAAAAY outa wack IMO. Ive never seen numbers so dang high in my life!!! (Range is from 350 to 550 ms) Looks like your priming for about 400ms on cold crank!!! My suggestion would be to set bar 1 to about 200ms and bar 32 to something like 10ms and level off in between.
Shortcut: Move to bar 1 and set it to 200. Move to bar 32 and set it to 10. Holding down your CTRL key, tap the left arrow until all bars are highlighted. Press CTRL-L to level off the range between bars 1 through 32.

*This will make a nice sloped bar graph. To unselect bars, hold ALT while tapping the arrow keys.

2. I would try Turning off Zero Throttle Map under Fuel Setup at least for now.

3. Change Post Start Temp Limit to 120 / Below (Currently 120 / above)

4. Under Throttle Pumps set the Coolant Factor to 1.5 (Currently .60)

5. Under Ignition Setup, set the Trigger Gain to 2 (Currently 1)

*Your fuel and ignition correction maps look alright for now. It should start/run.


Can somebody with a little more ignition expirience please verify this Ignition Setup?? Something looks a little funny with Trigger Angle. Shouldnt that be 65??

Ignition Setup
Trigger Input: int Reluctor Home Input: INT Reluctor
Trigger Gain: 1 Home Gain: 2
Triger Mode: Adaptive
Trigger Angle - oBTDC: 55

Trigger Type: MultiTooth Number of Teeth: 24
Tooth Offset: 11 (Hitman??)
Spark Mode: Distributor
Engine Type: Rotary
Output Type: Constant Charge
Coil Charge: 4.5
Output Edge: Falling

 

thats what i dont get either? this is the only way it would start. i had it sloped like you said, but when i did and the motor got warmer it not would fire....so i had to crank it up like i did.
i will do these things...i did see the trigger gain was different (1). i wasnt sure why though? i checked the manual anc coudlt find what this actually did so i didnt change it.

i started off at 65 when i stabbed the CAS then changed the angle to dial in the timing ince it was fired...i restabbed that sucker NUMEOUS times and had no toruble getting the leading 1 perfect but when i checked the trailing 1 and how i had my CAS stabbed, this was the only way i could get it to have the trailing 1 timed right, hence the 55. i thought i read as long as it wasnt TO far from 65 you would be ok?

and yes the 11 tooth offset is from hitmans method of the factory install.


if you dont mind id like to try it and see it to comapre it with mine?

its a walboro i bought new off ebay.
bad FPR? is there a way to check either or both?

 

OK I attached my current map as of this moment running Haltech firmware v634. My FPR is set to 44psi static psi and idles at about 39ish, but you may want to lower yours just a bit on account of your larger injectors. Keep in mind that I've got similar modifications to your with the exception of the primary injectors. You might want to trim down the fuel maps to the left of the stage area...



1. For your primer map, lets try keeping it consistant with what most other people have done in the past. Mine primes the engine at about 200ms on a 35 degree day when cold which is working absolutly fine. i imagine your shoud be at about 150ms due to your 850cc injectors. Mine hot starts alright but it could always be better.

2. I dont really think its your problem, but trigger gain is really pretty simply. Its basically the sensitivity of the Haltech against your CAS. 1 is the lowest setting. I have mine at 3, and I've run my car on other settings without any ill effects. Supposedly the higher the number the more potential for interference but you should be safe between 2-4.

3. I wouldnt adjust your ignition timing with the Trigger angle setting. Honestly I dont really know tooo much about ignition settings in this realm, but I've not really seen anything else but 65 degrees. When locking your ignition timing, adjust base timing from the CAS, not the haltech.

4. My walbro does almost the same thing: the pressure drops pretty quick and by the time I run around to look at the guage its already at like 15psi. I send a PM to reTED questioning these valves but I have not heard back from him. Apparently for me it doesnt matter cause my car runs fine, but potenttially any problems with the FPR and pressure drop COULD starve fuel to the engine I guess...

 

so i decided to try out your map and it ALMOST fired. it did fire on its own actuall but sounded as if i was running on 1 rotor again like when i ran outta gas. i was worried so i did the poor mans compression test and both housings sounded good and real strong? wasnt any uneven pulses or anything? i had my GF crank the car as i had my hand over both when i did this.
when it started i pumped the pedal some and it almost took off but died. then nothing. i checked the plugs and the rear is SOAKED in fuel but the front isnt bad at all...thats what makes me think an injector is stuck open (rear)? losing fuel pressure fast and the rear plug is soaked? i verified good strong spark on both L1 and L2 also.

 

Swap the primary fuel injectors from front rotor to rear rotor and see if the front spark plugs get soaked?


-Ted

 

I find it a bit hard to believe that a supposedly aftermarket 850cc injector would be stuck, I mean unless its really stuck for some odd reason, its not like its that old compaired to stock injectors... I'd be more likely to question a stuck injector on a 550 thats like 20 years old, not an 850 thats say at most 5 years old unless it was abused.

Before ripping the upper intake manifold off I would try defouling the entire motor one or two more times. I honestly think the rear was flooded just enough to not make fire, and while it was barely running on the front rotor the rear injectors just kept dumping in more fuel; compounding the problem.

Then again you running my maps with those 850cc injectors might not be the best approach. What if you take your other base map (designed for the 850s) and just change all the correctional maps to match mine?

 

im gonna try that today (my MAP with your settings), i ran out of time yesterday to try it.
my new neighbors are a lttle worried i think?
yesterday when i was trying to start it, i let out a HUGE backfire that sounded like a gun shot. i looked over to them peeking through the window!!
hahahahah, oooppsss.