Haltech Air Condition E8 AGAIN!
03-14-08, 04:23 PM
#1
Air Condition E8 AGAIN!
It used to work on my E6K but having issues with my E8
I connected to the same spots as when I had my e6k wired up. It worked then. And no its not the pressure switch.
The e8 is hookup this way:
Aux in (Green wire) hooked to Blue/orange wire on the connector on the relay
PWM4 output hooked to Blue white/wire on the same connector.
When I press the A/C button the a/c fan turns on and the aux data page indicates on. (this proves that it is connected ok right?)
But nothing happens to the clutch. So I inverted the PWM3 signal and the clutch turned on but then it will always stay on this way! (this should prove that the logic works or at least is connected to the right wire?)
PWM settings: (output state normal)
Max tps 55%
Max rpm 4500
Conditions time delay 5 seconds
idle time delay 30 seconds
Aux input 1 (output state normal) Set at ac request.
I called haltech usa and they told me to reinstall the basemap e8 and rebuild the map. I did such a thing without really understanding why but this did not change the outcome.
Also for some reason my haltech will only communicate with the computer set at 9600boad and the haltech at 56000baud. Weird!
Any help? Must have a/c working properly!
Thanks
Ian
I connected to the same spots as when I had my e6k wired up. It worked then. And no its not the pressure switch.
The e8 is hookup this way:
Aux in (Green wire) hooked to Blue/orange wire on the connector on the relay
PWM4 output hooked to Blue white/wire on the same connector.
When I press the A/C button the a/c fan turns on and the aux data page indicates on. (this proves that it is connected ok right?)
But nothing happens to the clutch. So I inverted the PWM3 signal and the clutch turned on but then it will always stay on this way! (this should prove that the logic works or at least is connected to the right wire?)
PWM settings: (output state normal)
Max tps 55%
Max rpm 4500
Conditions time delay 5 seconds
idle time delay 30 seconds
Aux input 1 (output state normal) Set at ac request.
I called haltech usa and they told me to reinstall the basemap e8 and rebuild the map. I did such a thing without really understanding why but this did not change the outcome.
Also for some reason my haltech will only communicate with the computer set at 9600boad and the haltech at 56000baud. Weird!
Any help? Must have a/c working properly!
Thanks
Ian
03-17-08, 07:57 AM
#3
ok this is fucken stupid. For what felt like the billionth post/ countless posting on this stupid a/c I believe its the e8.
The e6k worked so there is no reason to the e8 not working. And I can get the a/c to work by manually shorting out the fac-02 factory connector. I can manually invert the pwm and the a/c turns on. Quite simple the haltech is not doing its job.
So I decided to rip apart the dam dash to get at the stupid haltech wiring and find my aux output wire to hook it up this way. Well quess what. No matter what configuration you put the auxin and aux out it always stays on.
Not to mention it was recommended to reload the haltech base map was a waste of time and there is nothing more annoying then not knowing which map is currently loaded on the haltech software.
Gee can you tell I'm impressed.
I guess its just short out the connector permanently and just use a/c on the highway on long trips. no way to use in in a traffic jam!
The e6k worked so there is no reason to the e8 not working. And I can get the a/c to work by manually shorting out the fac-02 factory connector. I can manually invert the pwm and the a/c turns on. Quite simple the haltech is not doing its job.
So I decided to rip apart the dam dash to get at the stupid haltech wiring and find my aux output wire to hook it up this way. Well quess what. No matter what configuration you put the auxin and aux out it always stays on.
Not to mention it was recommended to reload the haltech base map was a waste of time and there is nothing more annoying then not knowing which map is currently loaded on the haltech software.
Gee can you tell I'm impressed.
I guess its just short out the connector permanently and just use a/c on the highway on long trips. no way to use in in a traffic jam!
03-17-08, 08:17 AM
#4
that sux man....
Is the dash still apart? If you can get at the unit, you may want to check that the harness is pinned corectly, and make sure the PWM you're using is wired to the correct spot on plug that goes into the haltech.
If its fine, then you're probably right its the brain.
Is the dash still apart? If you can get at the unit, you may want to check that the harness is pinned corectly, and make sure the PWM you're using is wired to the correct spot on plug that goes into the haltech.
If its fine, then you're probably right its the brain.
03-17-08, 09:17 AM
#5
that sux man....
Is the dash still apart? If you can get at the unit, you may want to check that the harness is pinned corectly, and make sure the PWM you're using is wired to the correct spot on plug that goes into the haltech.
If its fine, then you're probably right its the brain.
Is the dash still apart? If you can get at the unit, you may want to check that the harness is pinned corectly, and make sure the PWM you're using is wired to the correct spot on plug that goes into the haltech.
If its fine, then you're probably right its the brain.
I know the pwm works since when I invert it myself through the haltech the a/c turns on. I also know that the aux input works since when I push the a/c button in the car the aux input shows on.
Searching the forum it doesn't appear that anyone with an E8 is using the a/c option.
03-18-08, 01:15 PM
#6
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Go a few posts down from this one and read about the boost conrtol fix.
100 ebux says that this error or issue has the same root problem.
Next option, bypass the E8 for the AC conrtoll.
3 ways to do it, bypass it all together, give it the AC input only (to raise the RPM) or bypass it partially for controll still using both an input and output.
Way number one and 2 are obvios,
way number three goes like this, give the haltech an A/C configured input, but configure the output to water injection (or better yet intercooler spray advanced for more options including TPS limits and coolant temp).
Put in where you want the A/C to turn off say 5PSI and 5K rpm then be sure to to 0 out the air temp (or other meaningless settings), and invert the output.
Hook this output up to one pole of a small relay's coil. Take the input your are giving the haltech and split it off and invert it with another small relay (change its polarity to +) then hook it up to the other side of the first relays' coil.
This first relay is then used to switch the ac on and off, the haltech is merley then providing qualifying factors for the AC to be operational (less then X% throttle, load and below x coolant temp and rpm), not directly controling the AC, its also taking the AC input to raise idle rpm.
Boom your done
100 ebux says that this error or issue has the same root problem.
Next option, bypass the E8 for the AC conrtoll.
3 ways to do it, bypass it all together, give it the AC input only (to raise the RPM) or bypass it partially for controll still using both an input and output.
Way number one and 2 are obvios,
way number three goes like this, give the haltech an A/C configured input, but configure the output to water injection (or better yet intercooler spray advanced for more options including TPS limits and coolant temp).
Put in where you want the A/C to turn off say 5PSI and 5K rpm then be sure to to 0 out the air temp (or other meaningless settings), and invert the output.
Hook this output up to one pole of a small relay's coil. Take the input your are giving the haltech and split it off and invert it with another small relay (change its polarity to +) then hook it up to the other side of the first relays' coil.
This first relay is then used to switch the ac on and off, the haltech is merley then providing qualifying factors for the AC to be operational (less then X% throttle, load and below x coolant temp and rpm), not directly controling the AC, its also taking the AC input to raise idle rpm.
Boom your done
I just put it all back together. I give up. It will stay this way and wired this way this year.
I know the pwm works since when I invert it myself through the haltech the a/c turns on. I also know that the aux input works since when I push the a/c button in the car the aux input shows on.
Searching the forum it doesn't appear that anyone with an E8 is using the a/c option.
I know the pwm works since when I invert it myself through the haltech the a/c turns on. I also know that the aux input works since when I push the a/c button in the car the aux input shows on.
Searching the forum it doesn't appear that anyone with an E8 is using the a/c option.
03-18-08, 07:20 PM
#7
Go a few posts down from this one and read about the boost conrtol fix.
100 ebux says that this error or issue has the same root problem.
Next option, bypass the E8 for the AC conrtoll.
3 ways to do it, bypass it all together, give it the AC input only (to raise the RPM) or bypass it partially for controll still using both an input and output.
Way number one and 2 are obvios,
way number three goes like this, give the haltech an A/C configured input, but configure the output to water injection (or better yet intercooler spray advanced for more options including TPS limits and coolant temp).
Put in where you want the A/C to turn off say 5PSI and 5K rpm then be sure to to 0 out the air temp (or other meaningless settings), and invert the output.
Hook this output up to one pole of a small relay's coil. Take the input your are giving the haltech and split it off and invert it with another small relay (change its polarity to +) then hook it up to the other side of the first relays' coil.
This first relay is then used to switch the ac on and off, the haltech is merley then providing qualifying factors for the AC to be operational (less then X% throttle, load and below x coolant temp and rpm), not directly controling the AC, its also taking the AC input to raise idle rpm.
Boom your done
100 ebux says that this error or issue has the same root problem.
Next option, bypass the E8 for the AC conrtoll.
3 ways to do it, bypass it all together, give it the AC input only (to raise the RPM) or bypass it partially for controll still using both an input and output.
Way number one and 2 are obvios,
way number three goes like this, give the haltech an A/C configured input, but configure the output to water injection (or better yet intercooler spray advanced for more options including TPS limits and coolant temp).
Put in where you want the A/C to turn off say 5PSI and 5K rpm then be sure to to 0 out the air temp (or other meaningless settings), and invert the output.
Hook this output up to one pole of a small relay's coil. Take the input your are giving the haltech and split it off and invert it with another small relay (change its polarity to +) then hook it up to the other side of the first relays' coil.
This first relay is then used to switch the ac on and off, the haltech is merley then providing qualifying factors for the AC to be operational (less then X% throttle, load and below x coolant temp and rpm), not directly controling the AC, its also taking the AC input to raise idle rpm.
Boom your done
I keep on questioning my hook up but there is little chance of hooking it up wrong as per the haltech manual. Its only two wires
thanks again slo.
Ian
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03-18-08, 07:45 PM
#8
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My way of doing it is better than if the haltech worked correctly because it presents options not available in halwin, such as turning off A/C with excessive coolant temps and over a certain TPS reading. At the cost of a few feet of wire and 2 $3 relays
but
!!!You missed the first part of my post!!!:
I will spell it out for you so you can test it.
1, save your current map to a file.
2, load the default map found in the halwin folder, this should be called default_E8, it is NOT in the base maps folder.
3, key on/ Key off to restart the haltech, don't attempt to start the car.
4, go configure an output (whatever you have hooked up to the ac relay) as AC and set it up so it should work.
5, configure the input that you have physicly connected to the AC switch.
6, open the analog inputs and aux outputs data pages simultaneously
If you don't see an input on the analog inputs page when you turn the ac on then put a multimeter on that wire and confirm that its pulling to ground when the ac comes on.
If its output is + or it doesn't pull to ground then you might have a bad logicon, or have the wrong wire
I'll bet you dollars to donuts that its a map incompatibility issue and starting over with the correct default map fixes the problem.
but
!!!You missed the first part of my post!!!:
I will spell it out for you so you can test it.
1, save your current map to a file.
2, load the default map found in the halwin folder, this should be called default_E8, it is NOT in the base maps folder.
3, key on/ Key off to restart the haltech, don't attempt to start the car.
4, go configure an output (whatever you have hooked up to the ac relay) as AC and set it up so it should work.
5, configure the input that you have physicly connected to the AC switch.
6, open the analog inputs and aux outputs data pages simultaneously
If you don't see an input on the analog inputs page when you turn the ac on then put a multimeter on that wire and confirm that its pulling to ground when the ac comes on.
If its output is + or it doesn't pull to ground then you might have a bad logicon, or have the wrong wire
I'll bet you dollars to donuts that its a map incompatibility issue and starting over with the correct default map fixes the problem.
Slo. Thanks for the response. but I did not spend $1000's on a fuel management computer such that it cannot control a simple on off logic such as what a two wire 1988 Mazda rx7 A/C control would require. I have no interest in extra wires. There is no reason that the haltech should not work and I will be emailing haltech in regards. My last call did not solve anything and I prefer not to spend any more money on long distance.
I keep on questioning my hook up but there is little chance of hooking it up wrong as per the haltech manual. Its only two wires
thanks again slo.
Ian
I keep on questioning my hook up but there is little chance of hooking it up wrong as per the haltech manual. Its only two wires
thanks again slo.
Ian
03-18-08, 08:03 PM
#9
My way of doing it is better than if the haltech worked correctly because it presents options not available in halwin, such as turning off A/C with excessive coolant temps and over a certain TPS reading. At the cost of a few feet of wire and 2 $3 relays
but
!!!You missed the first part of my post!!!:
I will spell it out for you so you can test it.
1, save your current map to a file.
2, load the default map found in the halwin folder, this should be called default_E8, it is NOT in the base maps folder.
3, key on/ Key off to restart the haltech, don't attempt to start the car.
4, go configure an output (whatever you have hooked up to the ac relay) as AC and set it up so it should work.
5, configure the input that you have physicly connected to the AC switch.
6, open the analog inputs and aux outputs data pages simultaneously
If you don't see an input on the analog inputs page when you turn the ac on then put a multimeter on that wire and confirm that its pulling to ground when the ac comes on.
If its output is + or it doesn't pull to ground then you might have a bad logicon, or have the wrong wire
I'll bet you dollars to donuts that its a map incompatibility issue and starting over with the correct default map fixes the problem.
but
!!!You missed the first part of my post!!!:
I will spell it out for you so you can test it.
1, save your current map to a file.
2, load the default map found in the halwin folder, this should be called default_E8, it is NOT in the base maps folder.
3, key on/ Key off to restart the haltech, don't attempt to start the car.
4, go configure an output (whatever you have hooked up to the ac relay) as AC and set it up so it should work.
5, configure the input that you have physicly connected to the AC switch.
6, open the analog inputs and aux outputs data pages simultaneously
If you don't see an input on the analog inputs page when you turn the ac on then put a multimeter on that wire and confirm that its pulling to ground when the ac comes on.
If its output is + or it doesn't pull to ground then you might have a bad logicon, or have the wrong wire
I'll bet you dollars to donuts that its a map incompatibility issue and starting over with the correct default map fixes the problem.
O you mean on another post. Sorry missed that. Ya I tried to reload the base e8 map and tried this. But it did not work. But I set down and completely rebuild the map and downloaded to the e8 it so I had all of the outputs configured already so if there is indeed a conflict I just redid it. So I will try this again.
Thanks so much for the help.
03-18-08, 08:09 PM
#10
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by the way, when you open the analog inputs data (or digital inputs data page) and turn the ac on, does the haltech see the input?
If not you could be troubleshooting the haltech when the problem is your logicon.
Also, make sure when you do rebuild the map or try my steps above that you are using the map thats called default_E8.map located in the halwin directory and not any other map.
If not you could be troubleshooting the haltech when the problem is your logicon.
Also, make sure when you do rebuild the map or try my steps above that you are using the map thats called default_E8.map located in the halwin directory and not any other map.
03-19-08, 08:30 PM
#11
by the way, when you open the analog inputs data (or digital inputs data page) and turn the ac on, does the haltech see the input?
If not you could be troubleshooting the haltech when the problem is your logicon.
Also, make sure when you do rebuild the map or try my steps above that you are using the map thats called default_E8.map located in the halwin directory and not any other map.
If not you could be troubleshooting the haltech when the problem is your logicon.
Also, make sure when you do rebuild the map or try my steps above that you are using the map thats called default_E8.map located in the halwin directory and not any other map.
Loaded and tried defaulte8.map and default.map. Both did the same. no output control on the PWM. (Does not pull to ground when its requested to.)
The aux input does recognize the a/c switch. It goes "on" on the input datapage.
I even tried another PWM wire. Same.
Setting the pwm to test and on it does complete the circuit (pulled to ground) and enables the clutch.
Going to send an email/call to haltech.
Ian
03-19-08, 08:41 PM
#12
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Yep, sounds like a software problem,
are you using 1.82B?
In either case its probably something they want to know about.
My hack should still work.
are you using 1.82B?
In either case its probably something they want to know about.
My hack should still work.
Ok. I went back out today. This is what I did.
Loaded and tried defaulte8.map and default.map. Both did the same. no output control on the PWM. (Does not pull to ground when its requested to.)
The aux input does recognize the a/c switch. It goes "on" on the input datapage.
I even tried another PWM wire. Same.
Setting the pwm to test and on it does complete the circuit (pulled to ground) and enables the clutch.
Going to send an email/call to haltech.
Ian
Loaded and tried defaulte8.map and default.map. Both did the same. no output control on the PWM. (Does not pull to ground when its requested to.)
The aux input does recognize the a/c switch. It goes "on" on the input datapage.
I even tried another PWM wire. Same.
Setting the pwm to test and on it does complete the circuit (pulled to ground) and enables the clutch.
Going to send an email/call to haltech.
Ian
03-19-08, 08:50 PM
#13
I did try it three three times with no success. It's pretty maddening considering its only TWO wires and a simple logic to control.
I appreciate all of your help.
I'm sure your fix worked for others. I even didn't turn on any other features like aux and outputs etc.
03-19-08, 11:07 PM
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My guess is they will fix it in 1.82, that is if its broken in 1.82 as it is now.
One other thing, I have had outputs and features not work that where fixed with a firmware reload. Is sounds weird that this would be the case, but ask jacob about this he had a ign output that was dead until the firmware was reloaded.
One other thing, I have had outputs and features not work that where fixed with a firmware reload. Is sounds weird that this would be the case, but ask jacob about this he had a ign output that was dead until the firmware was reloaded.
V1.71. I wanted to make sure that the AI and A/C would work correctly since that was the only changes I have made since last year before I switched to the new version.
I did try it three three times with no success. It's pretty maddening considering its only TWO wires and a simple logic to control.
I appreciate all of your help.
I'm sure your fix worked for others. I even didn't turn on any other features like aux and outputs etc.
I did try it three three times with no success. It's pretty maddening considering its only TWO wires and a simple logic to control.
I appreciate all of your help.
I'm sure your fix worked for others. I even didn't turn on any other features like aux and outputs etc.
03-20-08, 12:37 AM
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The previous test with the car not running is invalid.
I just tried it (nothing actually hooked up to the output) and didn't see anything happening in the aux outputs data page.
Tried it again with the car running and the output switched to on.
only other difference is I am running 1.82B, had many broken features (not just boost control) until starting over with the default map.
Also I was activating it off a spare ad with the trim ****.
I also tried activating it off a digital input by inverting the input (with nothing actually hooked up there.)
Both worked..
So there you have it, upgrade to 1.82B and it will work.
Also I bet the default map thing would fix it also, apparently the car just needed to be running.
I just tried it (nothing actually hooked up to the output) and didn't see anything happening in the aux outputs data page.
Tried it again with the car running and the output switched to on.
only other difference is I am running 1.82B, had many broken features (not just boost control) until starting over with the default map.
Also I was activating it off a spare ad with the trim ****.
I also tried activating it off a digital input by inverting the input (with nothing actually hooked up there.)
Both worked..
So there you have it, upgrade to 1.82B and it will work.
Also I bet the default map thing would fix it also, apparently the car just needed to be running.
V1.71. I wanted to make sure that the AI and A/C would work correctly since that was the only changes I have made since last year before I switched to the new version.
I did try it three three times with no success. It's pretty maddening considering its only TWO wires and a simple logic to control.
I appreciate all of your help.
I'm sure your fix worked for others. I even didn't turn on any other features like aux and outputs etc.
I did try it three three times with no success. It's pretty maddening considering its only TWO wires and a simple logic to control.
I appreciate all of your help.
I'm sure your fix worked for others. I even didn't turn on any other features like aux and outputs etc.
03-22-08, 07:12 AM
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I'm curious if you got this working, I worked on a friends car today with an E11 running 1.71.
Same problems as you till we did the default map change and now the AC works like a charm.
Same problems as you till we did the default map change and now the AC works like a charm.
03-22-08, 08:43 AM
#17
So I left the haltech wires off. Shorted out the green wire and measure the pwm wire to ground. (This emliminating any potention weird voltage issues) and it still did not work. (All this time you can see the aux input turn on but no pwm pulled to ground.)
Now I have tried it so many different ways I am forgetting what I have done. I did try it with the car running as well but not sure what difference that would make running or not.
I'm spending way to much time on two wires
03-22-08, 08:52 AM
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Having the car running makes all the difference in the world. I wouldn't have guessed this until I saw it, but there is apparently logic within the haltech that prevents the AC from coming on unless the car is running.
So you did reload the default map yourself for 1.71 and transfered all your settings (fuel etc) over and then you started the car and tried the AC?
If you do this I bet my right nut (okay e-nut) that it will work.
I saw it myself yesturday with an E11 running 1.71.
Also my car has an E8 running 1.82B, and it does work.
I allmost want to post a datalog and screen shots to give you hope
One other quick and dirty thing you can try (real quick if you have the trim ****) is to run the AC off a spare AD instead of the digital in, set for 4 volts on 1 volt off
So you did reload the default map yourself for 1.71 and transfered all your settings (fuel etc) over and then you started the car and tried the AC?
If you do this I bet my right nut (okay e-nut) that it will work.
I saw it myself yesturday with an E11 running 1.71.
Also my car has an E8 running 1.82B, and it does work.
I allmost want to post a datalog and screen shots to give you hope
One other quick and dirty thing you can try (real quick if you have the trim ****) is to run the AC off a spare AD instead of the digital in, set for 4 volts on 1 volt off
No this did not work for me. I sent my map to haltech and I download the map supplied by haltech and it still did not work.
So I left the haltech wires off. Shorted out the green wire and measure the pwm wire to ground. (This emliminating any potention weird voltage issues) and it still did not work. (All this time you can see the aux input turn on but no pwm pulled to ground.)
Now I have tried it so many different ways I am forgetting what I have done. I did try it with the car running as well but not sure what difference that would make running or not.
I'm spending way to much time on two wires
So I left the haltech wires off. Shorted out the green wire and measure the pwm wire to ground. (This emliminating any potention weird voltage issues) and it still did not work. (All this time you can see the aux input turn on but no pwm pulled to ground.)
Now I have tried it so many different ways I am forgetting what I have done. I did try it with the car running as well but not sure what difference that would make running or not.
I'm spending way to much time on two wires
03-23-08, 04:47 PM
#19
Ok. There is something really strange going on. I put on my rims and dropped the car down. Brought the car outside and had it running so I hooked up the ohmmeter and measured my pwm output. Shorted the aux in and OMG it pulled to ground. So I hooked up the aux in to the a/c switch and it still pulled to ground. So I then hook up the pwm to the a/c and IT WORKED.
So I was happy but still left standing wondering how the hell it worked today when it didn't work yesturday. So I move the car back into the garage with the a/c off. It sitting running and my eyes start to burn (its cold out and the coolant correction probable never ran that low before) I was just about to turn the car off when I hear a click. I go to the car and watch the a/c clutch. Ever so often it gets pulled in and the aux in data screen shows the occasional on/off swap. (The heater was on and the fan running. So I turn it off. Looks like it very well may be a weird a/c logicon??)
DAM it. its possessed.
Slo
You are so correct that the car needs to be running in order for the logic to work. I tired it with the car running and without. Didn't work with the car not running.
Thanks!
So I was happy but still left standing wondering how the hell it worked today when it didn't work yesturday. So I move the car back into the garage with the a/c off. It sitting running and my eyes start to burn (its cold out and the coolant correction probable never ran that low before) I was just about to turn the car off when I hear a click. I go to the car and watch the a/c clutch. Ever so often it gets pulled in and the aux in data screen shows the occasional on/off swap. (The heater was on and the fan running. So I turn it off. Looks like it very well may be a weird a/c logicon??)
DAM it. its possessed.
Slo
You are so correct that the car needs to be running in order for the logic to work. I tired it with the car running and without. Didn't work with the car not running.
Thanks!
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