Genshie

FC is a full on track racing car, as well as the FD. GT class is a certain weight and size. GT usually weighs more than 3300 LBS. I would put an FC in the same class as a Porsche 914 and Miata. Not the most powerful car in the world, but if set up right, has a perfect 50/50 weight distribution and can outhandle virtually any car on the track. FD is similar, but more powerful than the FC. FDs are right on the very edge of being a GT car, but not quite.

RarestRX with his GTUs killed a Viper, NSX, and S2000 at Thunderhill. Just goes to show that HP is not everything, the driver behind the wheel is.

Furthermore, I do not see very many Supras on the track, not sure why not, but they are definitely not as nimble as an FC or an FD. The Supra is a fat boy with a lot of muscle, not bad on the track, but definitely a terrific 1/4 mile car.

Kurt G.

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

FDs are not close to being a GT car. It's a pure sports car, that at the time of introduction compared well with some exotics.

If anything, the FC is the closest to "GT" of the RX-7 world, but not quite. S5 TIIs weighed close to 3000 lbs. FDs weigh in at around 2800 for the R1 model.

Mykl

If he's been to the track plenty of times then he would understand that the difference between an amateur and a professional is not based on the fastest lap time you can turn in a given car, but in how consistent your lap times are.

Anybody who can figure out what the fast line around the course is, who understands how to make use of the advantages of his machine, and who has the ***** to run their car at 10/10ths can drive their car to it's fullest potential and turn a fast lap time or two. The truely great drivers are not the ones who set lap records, but the ones who can run lap after lap with times no more than a couple hundredths of a seconds apart while driving their car at the limits of it's capabilities.

I understand his point, and I'm picking it apart because I don't agree with it. Simply saying that you'd have a difficult time seeing car 'A' going faster than car 'B' based on the fact that the drivers aren't of professional caliber and that one turns better magazine skidpad numbers is naive, and suggests that said person lacks experience.

Magazine numbers can't take into account the advantage that AWD gives a car. They can't take into account the disadvantages of a high horsepower RWD car. The only thing you can see is how quickly the car is willing to change directions and how much grip the tires that are mounted on the car give it.

Different tracks and different conditions favor different cars over other cars. It just so happened that I had an inherent advantage on the track I was running on in the conditions we were running in. If we were running on a track where there was more emphasis on power and less emphasis on grip, then I would have had my *** handed to me.

But, the point of this ramble is... Supras are not invincible. Certainly *great* cars, but not the greatest at everything.

Turbo23

iTrader: (4)

i remember RE Amemiya had that white FD they put into the option challange for the fastest japanese street car. Needless to say, it cleaned up

minclo

my question is why are we comparing an FC to a MKIV supra? the two are at least three years apart in production. At most they are ten years apart. Compared to a MKIII, the Seven wipes the floor with it. I don't know the numbers of the Japan Spec only Seven that went beyond '95 but i'm pretty sure it stays fairly even with the supra in all aspects and blows past it on the track. Now with the upcoming '05 RX-7 and a rumored new Supra we can compare on an even basis. Sorta. The cars are still both built with two different purposes in mind. A Seven will beat a supra in the twisties, but will be demolished in the battle for power. Now these personal attacks and calling into question each others driving skills is uncalled for. Don't lower yourself to personal attacks just because you can't think of a better arguement for your car. We Seven owners are all one big happy family! Let's keep it that way damnit! OR ELSE!

c-squared

The FD is a GT car, look at the model types: Touring was an offered version. Apparently, Mazda ALSO thinks it is a Grand Touring Car.

Every model, save the 'vert, has been considered a GT car.

minclo

Yes...touring....not GRAND touring

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

Thanks minclo.

I stand by my point. It could be different interpretations of the word GT. To me, GT is more of an upscale sports car that focuses slightly more on emenities and comfort than handling and power. Certainly the FD doesn't fit that description.

c-squared

The FD is also available only as a hardtop. You can't have a hardtop sports car; it goes against the definition of the term.

You can't justify definitions of a word to each individual, you have to follow the firm definition set years ago by car manufacturers. Otherwise, ANY car could essentially claim to be a sports car, as long as they said, "To me" first.

"To me, sports car is any car that is able to accelerate faster than a 4-year-old on a Tricycle. My 1982 honda civic usually meets that description. Thus, my 1982 honda civic is a sports car".

As you can see, you can't argue semantics based to the individual.

RoninAutoBoX

The MKIV is a barge. That is its problem. It can't do good at auto-x because its body weight doesn't lend to that type of thing. Even for high speed road racing, there were some who dropped the heavy inline six for a lighter 2.0 litre 4 cylinder.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

The Supra is a HP beast but look at it this way.

Think about body builders. They will get very big muscles but then they lose their range of movement.
They might have gained big muscles but they aren't as flexible now.
Like Bruce Lee he was a scrawney/well built guy but it didn't slow him down from kicking ***.

Our cars were made with turns in mind. Weight and a neutral turning bias is what a Rotary excels at, not Immense HP.
There is only so much you can pull from a 1.3L. Although I saw a 4 Rotor NA doing about 700HP while Twin turbo it was something like 1200HP. That is more in the same catergory as a Supra than a 13b is.

The Supra is a heavy and reliable HP monster. My friends went to the track while I was at Sevenstock and saw a Supra pull a 9.9 burning out and squirming all the way down the track.

I think the RX is a car for a person which wants to use their skill while a Supra is more of a pissing contest car which you try getting the most HP and Wow factor from.

ilike2eatricers

well said digi7ech

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

LOL, there's something I can relate too. I remember some posts awhile ago where someone said the FC vert wasn't a sports car because it was so heavy and slow. Which is funny because some people say it's not a sports car unless it has an open top.

For kicks, I looked up sports car in a couple places. My Webster's dictionary defines it as "a small car, often with only two seats, providing above average speed, acceleration, and handling". It makes no distinction between open top or closed top. The Road & Track automotive dictionary defines it more as open top, saying closed tops should be referred to as GT. But, it closes by saying "these days a sports car can include almost any performance car that is exhilarating to drive and puts a smile on the driver's face".

RylAssassin

Acutally Digi7ech, that is a great way to put it. I like to think of working on my car as more of a refined process of making it the ultimate sports car, and not some hp pissing contest lol

l33trx7

Some people see this and think coffin on wheels, I think......potential

Davidov

iTrader: (2)

Would the MkIII Supra and the FC be a better match up?

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

Well I've been to the track a few times, but that's kind of the point. Everyone on this forum thinks they're a great driver. Turns out they're not! I stink and I've been beaten by cars that had no right to be beating me. On the same token I've beaten some cars I had no right to beat. Silkworm is probaby the best driver of people who post in the FC forum. He's amature, makes lots of mistakes, etc. but he'd wipe the floor with the rest of us. He's at a level of skill where the car plays a much bigger part, but even there big differences in cars can exist and effect the results far less than they could.

If you haven't been to the track before then I'll save you the trouble of finding out how talented you are. You are the most pathetic POS driver to ever set foot in a car. No one is any good without lots of practice.

I scanned in a couple pages from "The Wankel Engine: Design, Development, Application" circa 1971. Very good book. Lots of NSU and Mercedes patent docuements and engineering diagrams. I'll try to dig it up. It should be on one of 3 computers and will not be able to check them all until the weekend.

Edit: Back to the original purpose of the post.
http://www.dysonrotary.com.au These guys have a 800hp+ 13b. 87% of capacity of the supra 3.0L means 872hp would be about the same as a 1000hp Supra engine. They rate their turbo as good for 1000hp+.

RoninAutoBoX

BTW, even the MKIV guys know that whilelow quarter mile times on the stock IRS is possible, it is also a very risky proposition. The stock IRS is NOT stable when it comes to putting down power at the track, and even with slicks and all of that, there have been several incidents. The supra is far from being a straight line only beast, but making monster hp does have its disadvantages, and yes, a 550 hp car is a bitch to auto-X, especially if it should happen to have one of those big laggy turbos that MKIV owners tend to be drawn to.

13bgxl

Ceramic apex seals and turbo,turbo,turbo.

RotaryWeaponSE7EN

iTrader: (6)

Ok guy u wanna see something cool.

Go here:http://www.rx7.com/racing/content/times.html

Second time on first list was made w/ a tube chassis Rx-7 driven by Abel Ibarra. That 7 only made 758hp. But it also weighed next to nothing. It was a two rotor also.

shotcallerx7

Carlos Gonzalez's GNS Racing 91 FC drag car has around 1000 hp. In Modified magazine in the augest issue was in print 900 rwhp with no nitrous. With a 13b of course. Not to mention I work for him at all the events. 900 was before the spearco air to liquid intercooler. The calculations done with the computer the sets up the how much fuel needs to go to the engine estimates in the 980-1050 zone. With nitrous the car would EASILY clear 1000. By the way thats with turbonetics (which we have partial sponsership with) Y2K T-81 turbo, with mechanical fuel injection and a crazy large street port to get that kind of power. End of discussion, it can be done. If you need more proof just find the magazine.

shotcallerx7

a

Avatar

there is 800 HP (at the wheels) s4 13bt down here, however if you where planning on going 1000 hp + you'd just go with a 20b as it would be easier and more reliable

Impreza2RX7

GRM got a little over a G on the skidpad out of a FC just by adjusting tire pressure to 32 PSI all around and changing alignment settings also. This was with stock suspension and tires.

SureShot

Someone help me ID this car from Orlando.
It is an FC with a tube chassis powered by a 13B, alcohol injected.
>1000HP, <10sec with a problem launch

Click here to play a 4MB video of a >1000HP 13B.