classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Hey, I searched and found only a few threads that mention the phrase but none of which answer the specific quesiton.

I am plumbing the I/C piping for the T04-S and ran into a problem when I try to plumb it around the GIANT S4 AFM (not to mention actually fitting the AFM in there itself with a cone filter on it) so....my quesiton is:

1)since I am using an emanage - which should be able to run off a MAP signal - can I throw that AFM in the trash to save myself some room, and run with a MAP sensor?

2)what type of MAP sensor will give the same signal as our factory AFM in order to make the ECU happy? (sorry not a huge electrical man)

Tofuball

A MAP sensor will never give the same signal as an AFM, they simply dont mesure the same thing.

The AFM is extremely restrictive.

The E-Manage is a piggyback system, it will not allow you to remove the AFM.

If I were you, I'd just go buy a real standalone EMS.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

The original blue E-manage won't let you remove the airflow meter. The E-manage Ultimate MIGHT be able to - there's talk in the manual about it, but no one that I know of has done it.

As a compromise, look into getting a S5 airflow meter. They're much slimmer and easier to fit in there, and it's a pretty easy swap. You just need the AFM and the electrical connector.

Dale

Tofuball

Let me elaborate.

The ECU uses the AFM as the primary input to control its fuel maps. Without the input from the AFM, the ECU has no clue what to do. Even a slightly wrong AFM signal can really throw the ECU for a loop.

The ECU only uses the MAP sensor for a few things, such as:

1) Deciding when to enter closed loop mode,
2) Fuel cut (overboost or high vaccum) (Or it uses the TPS for the engine brakeing/high vaccum)
3) Output to your stock boost gauge (I don't think it goes through the ECU for this though)


I don't remember offhand if the MAP or the AFM has more input in ignition timing, but it is another thing to consider.

Whizbang

but the general consenus is no.


which does suck....

look at the megaquirt PnP someone was puttnig together. that is my plan soom enough. i have room with the AFM, but i want to ditch because its restrictive. Then again, im going to a air/liquid intercooler.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

well...crap. I guess that throws that for a loop...

yeah I know - full EMS...I have a haltech e6x sitting here but I would like to keep it for my track project...

I got the emange at a hell of a deal and I was just curious because since (using my injector and ignition harness) looking at the manual it appears that with the injector harness I am using the Emanage to control the injectors entirely and since the unit is setup to work in so many different vehicles I thought it might be able to be "tricked" into seeign a different signal for air flow.......

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

I just went back through some of the stuff on the E-manage Ultimate - it does have facilities for removing an airflow meter, but it looks relatively tricky. You basically have to build a map for the airflow meter - as in, at this much pressure, intake air temp, and RPM, give this amount of voltage to the ECU. That's way beyond the blue E-manage's abilities.

BTW, the stock boost sensor on the FC is primarily for spark timing. It's literally a vacuum advance - remember, the FC had one of the first distributorless ignition setups, so they mimiced some of a distributor's functions. This is why NA's also have a boost sensor. Henrik verified this on his work with the stock ECU's programming.

The E-manage is a good computer and can very likely do what you're wanting. The direct injector control can help out with sub-3800 lean spots and iron out spots the airflow meter can't.

I'd seriously look into the S5 airflow meter. The swap should be documented somewhere - I believe I documented it when I did it a zillion years ago.

Dale

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

thanks for the replies...

yeah I've thought about the S5 AFM swap, but my problem fitment wise isn't so much the width and gerth of the thing (even though the S5 IS slimmer) but its the actual length, and both of them are damn near the same size in that respect.

But with direct injector control (which correct me if Im wrong, but that IS what I can do with the injector harness right?) shouldn't I be able run fuel anyways, regardless of airflow? or will the lack of an a AFM just cause the factory ECU to say, sorry pal, I need my air flow signal - your fubarred! hehe........

Either way...thanks

edit: if I do the swap, I can use a S5 N/a AFM correct? (hopefully, cuz thats what I have alying around)

The Griffin

I don't think a S5N/A will work well as it will bottom out quickly like the 929 AFM.If you are using a front mount intercooler(which if you are using a 60-1 turbo ,no doubt have) then place the AFM in the pressure side of the turbo(i.e. between the intercooler and the TB on the drivers side),you need an S5 T2 AFM for that as the S4 won't hold the pressure.You can tune out the differences it causes by being on the pressure side easily with the e-manage.Solves your AFM problem and apparently the AFM losses are less prononced on the pressure side then on the vaccumm side of the turbo.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

I actually read up on the AFM reloaction and have begun fitting it in the I/C piping just after the turbo.

However I am going to use the S4 TII AFM since I don't have any S5 TII ones....it should hold decent boost - but hey - if it actually doesn't, Ill tell ya at how many psi it let go

I figure it should still work, and as mentioned, i will be able to tune out any differences in the flow readings with the Emanage and still make it run as it should.

We'll see how she goes....

The Griffin

I'd also make sure the black AFM plastic cover is sealed well and maybe zip tie it to hold it in place.

TRRAPLN

Did you notice in the Ultimate vehicle engine code set-up page that choosing a 13b engine gives you a MZ_FL-2 flap code? According to the book, that is for later than my 1988 AE TII and a code of MZ_FL-1 should come up. It's nowhere to be found.
Is this a problem? Will my S4 run on that code or do I need to get a S5 type AFM.

a143gsxr

iTrader: (1)

I high a base airflow output map for the ultimate that will run the car. It is tricky to build though. You have to log stock maf output voltage, Pressure from the greddy pressure sensor and rpm. Then build the airflow output map simply by pluging in the voltages you got off points on your maps that you logged to your new output map. You will need someone like Dave at KD rotary to fine tune your map on the dyno, unless you have a laptop and a driver where you can tune the map while you are out on a drive. I have eliminated my MAF meter and drove the car. it's very good during normal driving and max throttle, it just needs some more smoothing at the transition from vac to pressure(5" to 1 psi). I have a tread i just posted on this. Remember, if you do get to the point of removing the MAF meter, you have to jumper the brown and the black wires at the Yellow 2-pin connector, which is the fuel pump relay contact, which is normally made up by the MAF meter. This is the only yellow pin test connector in the area of the MAF meter. good luck, stephen.