Fingers

Good discussion guys

so what's the deal with Microtech's harness? Is it flying lead, or terminated, or otherwise?

And the firmware, can it be updated by the user, or do you have to send it back to MT?

LT8TurboII

iTrader: (2)

The Microtech harness is flying lead. As far as firmware updates I a unsure and will have to check, but I am pretty sure it will need to be sent back. I do think in the newer units dealers may have some of this configurability, but once again that is a guess and not gospel.


This reminds me on one thing I left out on the CON list for Microtech, sending it back sucks *** .

EDIT: Not so much left out as misquoted not dealer dependant but rather Manufacturer dependant.

LT8TurboII

iTrader: (2)

It is, and that is amazig to me. With the exception of one person everyone has been pretty civil.

You people may just change my view of humanity as a whole......probably not.

kabooski

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1Revvin7
[B]Vosko had the microtech unit on his t2 and sold it for an E6k. I asked him why, and he said the microtech was garbage.

I'll let that slide since thats hearsay
I would tho welcome Vosk to report on his BIG Money Pro Tunned E6K powered 3RD in comparison
to his experiance with MicroTech



I have a LTX Microtech
and with ported motor BIG injectors all around
I get near stock M.P.G

and saying your getting 40MPG on a Piston motor
does not relate to a Rotary
All you have to do is read the gas mileage thread and you will see why

Maxthe7man

In regards to the "hitman" leaving the closed loop off..
I think he probably left it off for the reason, it needs to be tuned on the highway over a period of time to get it just right...You can't just enable it and expect to tune it on a dyno, it needs real world, real life driving to get the closed loop right.. There is no set in stone parameter to just set each thing to, each car is different , each motor/turbo combo will need different settings, depending on spool up when it comes to load on hills and what not, when I Streetported my motor, I had to make some adjustments to it, in regards to load and rpm cut off...
I have tried running with without closed loop, you can set lean, but with slight changes in load, you never get the stableness of closed loop feedback operation..
If you run a catalytic converter, you will prematurely destroy the cat without closed loop operating, its needs to see the switchover in order to light off, not doing either either cooks it, or plugs it...I have the benefit of still having one FC with stock ecu to compare settings to,if you track the closed loop operation, its in closed loop alot, even in city driving, a short jaunt up a residential street, and the ecu finds closed loop..
I know alot of poeple have posted how good of mileage they have gotten without closed loop, over and above what the stock ecu achieved...However I must add, that mazda does not have the luxury of tuning each particular car , and their settings in the stock ecu are pretty loose compared to what one can do with a stand alone ecu with programmable ecu on each particular car, if they pushed the limit on one car that was driven on flat test track for mileage, the closed loop would probably never come on, or surge up slight inclines when driven in the rear world..
Yah you can get 22 mpg without closed loop, but hey you can get 33 with proper closed loop tuning.. I've done it...With the price of premium gas, its a feature that pays for itself rather quickly..
Another nice benefit, is if you have to go through the sniffer test, the closed loop at idle is a saviour..
One thing often overlooked, is that if you are running a high boost motor, with cold leading plugs on premix, especially with heavy porting, the plugs tend to foul at idle or in traffic, enabling the closed loop at idle will keep the plugs from fouling, I found this out using heat range 11 plugs in my car on the leadings...
I will say this about the "other systems"... When it comes to a comparison between them , I often find the only argument people use when one of the ems's doesn't have an option that say for example only, the e6k is, is that its not neccasary, I think its a step backwards to equip a street car with less capabilites than what the stock ecu did as far as the basics of engine control and driveability are concerned...On a track car, a full race car, yeah ok, a weekend driver, it may be ok to live with some of the options.. I drive my car under all conditions pretty much, so I like the car to retain some comfort and driveability...I guess thats part of the criteria I would suggest people consider when they buy an ecu...
The arguments of some just escape me though....My E6k doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the e-11 , the motec, the fjo ems, but does that mean they all suck and I should all angry when someone shows me how those are better or the advantages of them... no.. It just means if I want that stuff, I have to save more money and work a little harder, not get in huff and because some has something I don't...I am leaving it at that...Max

LT8TurboII

iTrader: (2)

Uh oh, here they are.

Max, thanks, your input above was pretty informative and answered the question I had about why it was possibly disabled. I did not realize the tuning of closed loop on the haltech varied so widely.

Your responce was also very professional and not snide in anyway, we may actually get a good comparison yet!

Kabooski:

Calm down , You yourself have a pro-tunned microtech vs your expierience with the E6K.

Possibly the expieriences of you and Vosko further validate the point that the EMS should be chosen by the tuner?

kabooski

Yes to some degree
other factors come into play
What GUI your more comfortable programming in.
Option of using either a Laptop or Handcontroller.
Price.
user friendliness.
etc
If your looking at a microtech but would like some expanded features...Don't worry like any company
they will offer upgraded/expanded ECU's

If not we would still be using windows 95
and Haltech F5's

BTW: My car has never seen a Dyno
a WideBand
a EGT
pretty much a adjusted "Base" Map at 14PSI
(map supplied by rxengineering with the Group Buy)
and has run a 11.72@118 on DR's

vosko

iTrader: (4)

here is my true feelings on the haltech vs microtech

got the car to run. its a very SIMPLE system almost archaic..... it is also CRYPTIC

the haltech E6K is much more flexible as far as sensors it is also basically the same price. i honestly have seen much better support for the haltech also.

microtech dissappointmens were
A)software mimics hand controller......USELESS
B)have to use specific preprogrammed sensors
C)Wiring diagram is not complete/100% accurate for 13BT
D)manual is pretty much USELESS for install

i'll go into haltech
A) hard to setup correctly, timing etc
B) you need your laptop in the car at all times to do minor tuning
C) you can use practically ANY sensor
D) Ability to datalog and swap maps easier

that's about it........just off the top of my head.......

anyway questions lemme know

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I agree entirely about the ecu being what you need and or want. None is better than the other, in respect to what you want. However one is better than the other for what !!!YOU WANT!!! That is to me what makes the Microtech a good buy (for me)... because i don't need all of the bells and whistles, however i did take a cut for instance the closed loop. It depends entirely what you want/need!

Josepi

It's a lil cryptic, but everything worked on my first try when I wired mine in...

LT8TurboII

iTrader: (2)

I had no problems with the wiring diagrams at all. What part did you find inaccurate?

Daniel

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

so did my e11

LT8TurboII

iTrader: (2)

Good deal. Those spacers for the GC camber plates on my AGX's worked awesome btw. Thanks a million.

Daniel

vosko

iTrader: (4)

+12V ignition and mainly wiring of the coils. the way they did the diagram with the colors matching the harness side of the plug. yet they don't tell you ANYWHERE

just looks like they threw it together. i honestly never looked at anything in the manual but the wiring diagram. the rest of it is useless!

Fingers

The LT8 harness matches the wire harness colours? Holy fack, its like playing lego

vosko

iTrader: (4)

it does not! on the factory harness you have two different sets of wires on each side of the plug. when they reference colors they are referencing the engine harness side not the sensor side.......it just makes things even more confusing when they don't tell you that. i was not very happy with any of the support of the microtech either.... everything i had to figure out by myself or with my roomate. wasn't pleasant at all. it left many things to be desired.

i'll stick with the haltech's any day for ease of setting up and support!

rx7_turbo2

Well, not bad, I'll eat crow, everybody seems to be keeping it civil.

I agree with Vosko on the manual issue. I was not that impressed, what is it like 35 pages? I just finished reading the Haltech manual (for fun believe it or not) it's like 175 pages. The Microtech manual glazes over some area's. And use's easy to understand words and phrases, but it's at the expense of technical information. If your tuning the car on your own the Microtech manual is almost useless, it just doesnt go into the same depth of efi tuning principles the Haltech does, or the Wolf V4 manual I've started to flip through. Vosko is dead right about the wiring diagram, if you don't have the stock harness to reference wire colors it's a real pain in the ***, even with the harness it's a pain, my wiring diagram is covered in corrections made to it so that I know what wire goes where on the sensor side of things.

I do like the software of the Microtech however. I mentioned it before, I'm 23, my world has always been point and click, I don't remember a time when I had to look at a DOS screen. I like that aspect of the Microtech. I also really like the Dash unit option. Enough people have the Microtech running well on their cars to show it can be done. But there are some features the Microtech has hard programmed that the Haltech gives the user control over, it would take me awhile to list them and some have already been mentioned.

I would suggest to any prosepctive buyer to read the manual of the unit you want to buy. If you read the Haltech manual and come out scratching your head going "what the ****" then you know what? it's probably not for you. If you read the Microtech manual and say "well I would rather control that feature myself, and this seems to simplified" then maybe the Microtech is not for you. The exception to this is if your having someone tune your car, if that is the case I agree with most in saying go with what your tuner knows best.

vosko

iTrader: (4)

it took me atleast 10mins to figure out how to lock the damn timing......... i'm not a fan of that system. it may run in windows but the haltech dos software is more controllable. the haltech software to me is more user friendly.

i agree go with whatever your tuner knows best

kabooski

Please Lets be real Vosk
You only like the Haltech GUI ONLY cause your more comfortable
with it, since that is what you been using for years


going from bars to a complete diffrent system is a bit overwhelming

It's like programming in Unix for years and suddenly finding your self trying to program in .NET

vosko

iTrader: (4)

i am more used to it of course but how can a dos system seem more user friendly that tells you something about the microtech software.........!

give a person an hour with each software and see which one the person can get thru and actually tune it!

heck if i loved the microtech don't you think i would have left it. i went through the trouble of installing it.

for some people it might be fine but why have a microtech when for the same price i can have a E6K and it will suit me better. using a 3 bar map sensor already and being able to take advantage of just about NEW sensor i want to use. i don't have to reuse all my OLD mazda sensors!

sorry to rant

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

sweet

mike

kabooski

Theres NOTHING you can do with a Haltech that I could not do with a MicroTech,
I'm talking about getting the car to idle fine
steady ignition controll
get good MPG, reliablility,tune'ability and performance

for a better price

and Yep I dont have to make a TPS bracket and I don't have to TAP to add GM sensors.
My stock sensors worked just fine with the stock ECU
and work just as good with the MicroTech

Keep in Mind
It's not like theres only 2 EMS's out there to choose from
there are half-a-dozen
That can get the job done.
It is what ever suits your budget and needs

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

You don't have to use a gm tps with Haltech. Most people run the stock tps..
E6k priced has dropped so a ton. I usually see it for the same price as a microtech.

vosko

iTrader: (4)

if you want to keep using really expensive mazda sensors go ahead. if one of mine breaks i can goto pep boys and replace it

everyone is allowed to have a favorite unit but most people say the one they are using is the best. honestly i had a Tec III and it rocks! never shoulda sold it.....

rx7_turbo2

I've watched a Haltech user set the after start enrichment, he could not only set the amount of additional fuel to add after starting but also the period of time it added the fuel for. This is something that can not be done with the Microtech. But you found a loop hole through the question by adding "I'm talking about getting the car to idle fine and steady ignition control" Without this function the Microtech might be able to perform the same but there are some who would still like that additional control that the Microtech does not offer.

The price point is pretty close now between the LT8 and the E6X when all things are equal, ie) sensors, additional features needed.

I still like the Microtech software, I will play around with the Haltech a bit more but like I said, I was raised on point and click, anything else seems foreign.