View Poll Results: Haltech or microtech?
Haltech E6K or E11
44
35.77%
Microtech LT8
43
34.96%
Other/both/no experience with either (pls post)
36
29.27%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll
Haltech vs. Microtech
#27
Brother of the Rotary
iTrader: (2)
From Rank Rotary in AUS
-Wolf 3D Version 4 Kit
Kit includes:
ECU, ECU mounting brackets, Main loom, Input trigger cable, Ignition output cable,
Window sticker, User guide, Installation manual, Warranty card
$1095.00
-Wolf 3D Version 4 HC Kit
Kit includes:
Wolf 3D Version 4 ECU, ECU mounting brackets, Wolf 3D version 4 hand controller,
Main loom, Input trigger loom, Ignition output cable, Plug kit, Air temperature sensor,
Water temp sensor, PC link cable, PC software, Window sticker, Installation manual,
User guide manual, Warranty card
$1395.00
Kit includes:
ECU, ECU mounting brackets, Main loom, Input trigger cable, Ignition output cable,
Window sticker, User guide, Installation manual, Warranty card
$1095.00
-Wolf 3D Version 4 HC Kit
Kit includes:
Wolf 3D Version 4 ECU, ECU mounting brackets, Wolf 3D version 4 hand controller,
Main loom, Input trigger loom, Ignition output cable, Plug kit, Air temperature sensor,
Water temp sensor, PC link cable, PC software, Window sticker, Installation manual,
User guide manual, Warranty card
$1395.00
#28
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I just downloaded the Wolf software and I must say I am very impressed.
Now if we can just keep Max and Kabooski out of this thread, it looks like we can keep it civil. I am personally amazed
Now if we can just keep Max and Kabooski out of this thread, it looks like we can keep it civil. I am personally amazed
#29
The mystery of the prize.
I love it when people say they are experienced with both then they enumerate pros and cons of both, and closed loop isnt mentioned anywhere in their post.
Microtech - no closed loop
Haltech - closed loop standard
since most of you guys probably drive your cars on the street regularly, closed loop should be pretty high on the priority list. Without it, your fuel economy is going to suck more than it would under normal pported exhaust rotary conditions.
Not to mention the microtech only supports fuel cut style rev limit.
Haltech supports fuel cut or ignition cut, ignition cut style is preferable over the fuel cut on a rotary. There are other forms of rev limit available with standalones, but the scope of this thread is essentially microtech vs. haltech.
Microtech - no closed loop
Haltech - closed loop standard
since most of you guys probably drive your cars on the street regularly, closed loop should be pretty high on the priority list. Without it, your fuel economy is going to suck more than it would under normal pported exhaust rotary conditions.
Not to mention the microtech only supports fuel cut style rev limit.
Haltech supports fuel cut or ignition cut, ignition cut style is preferable over the fuel cut on a rotary. There are other forms of rev limit available with standalones, but the scope of this thread is essentially microtech vs. haltech.
Last edited by pengarufoo; 11-14-03 at 04:27 PM.
#30
Currently Winning
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closed loop is not very helpful imho. if it's tuned right you won't need it, anyway.
that said, Steve Kan is tuning my car, so I chose Haltech.
the difference between an LT8 and an E6K/X is small enough that one should definitely go with whatever the tuner prefers.
that said, Steve Kan is tuning my car, so I chose Haltech.
the difference between an LT8 and an E6K/X is small enough that one should definitely go with whatever the tuner prefers.
#31
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Originally posted by Josepi
In a perfect world where the narrow band output of wideband controllers would function correctly, you could use the narrow band output from a wideband device and use the input for the LT-8 O2 sensor. Then it'd log just fine.
I'll probably end up going that route, if I can confirm that the techedge 2.0 fixed their problem of narrowband output...
In a perfect world where the narrow band output of wideband controllers would function correctly, you could use the narrow band output from a wideband device and use the input for the LT-8 O2 sensor. Then it'd log just fine.
I'll probably end up going that route, if I can confirm that the techedge 2.0 fixed their problem of narrowband output...
#32
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I am expirienced with both, and I do not see closed loop to be a big deal, I can get well over 23mpg on my LT8 on the highway (not switching maps just the way i keep it tuned) with no problem. Would it be possible to eak out a little more with closed loop? Possibly, but i do know Matt (Hitman) Lecher turned closed loop off on all the E6K cars he tuned for us in Atlanta....
And as far as the fuel cut rev limiter, what the problem with that? My car hits the clutch switch limiter at 5500 all the time, and has hit the 8000rpm cut on occasion.
Daniel
And as far as the fuel cut rev limiter, what the problem with that? My car hits the clutch switch limiter at 5500 all the time, and has hit the 8000rpm cut on occasion.
Daniel
Last edited by LT8TurboII; 11-14-03 at 05:13 PM.
#33
The mystery of the prize.
Originally posted by LT8TurboII
I am expirienced with both, and I do not see closed loop to be a big deal, I can get well over 23mpg on my LT8 on the highway (not switching maps just the way i keep it tuned) with no problem. Would it be possible to eak out a little more with closed loop? Possibly, but i do know Matt (Hitman) Lecher turned closed loop off on all the E6K cars he tuned for us in Atlanta....
And as far as the fuel cut rev limiter, what the problem with that? My car hits the clutch switch limiter at 5500 all the time, and has hit the 8000rpm cut on occasion.
Daniel
I am expirienced with both, and I do not see closed loop to be a big deal, I can get well over 23mpg on my LT8 on the highway (not switching maps just the way i keep it tuned) with no problem. Would it be possible to eak out a little more with closed loop? Possibly, but i do know Matt (Hitman) Lecher turned closed loop off on all the E6K cars he tuned for us in Atlanta....
And as far as the fuel cut rev limiter, what the problem with that? My car hits the clutch switch limiter at 5500 all the time, and has hit the 8000rpm cut on occasion.
Daniel
Hit your fuel cut type rev limit @ WOT under heavy load and plenty boost.
Fuel cut is the very reason people need a FCD in TurboII's.
#34
Senior Member
if i were you, i would listen to LT8Turbo2, hes very knowlageable in this.
also, the reason you need FCD in a Tii is because the stock ecu dosnt cut all the fuel like a microtech. it cuts half the fuel, in turn leaning the motor out causeing detonation.
as for the MT vs. HT, im running a MT cause i wanted to learn to tune my car myself. and the LT8 seemed the most user friendly for me not knowing much about tuneing. i didnt want to get a stand alone, and look at bars i could move in DOS. i wanted to look at digital gauges, graphs, and fancy logs so i could see exactly what changed when and where when i changed a setting. for what its worth, gave me a lot better understanding of what i was doing with the stand alone. hope that made some sence. plus it didnt have all the fancy settings that the haltech has. so its less i can screw up
Daniel
also, the reason you need FCD in a Tii is because the stock ecu dosnt cut all the fuel like a microtech. it cuts half the fuel, in turn leaning the motor out causeing detonation.
as for the MT vs. HT, im running a MT cause i wanted to learn to tune my car myself. and the LT8 seemed the most user friendly for me not knowing much about tuneing. i didnt want to get a stand alone, and look at bars i could move in DOS. i wanted to look at digital gauges, graphs, and fancy logs so i could see exactly what changed when and where when i changed a setting. for what its worth, gave me a lot better understanding of what i was doing with the stand alone. hope that made some sence. plus it didnt have all the fancy settings that the haltech has. so its less i can screw up
Daniel
#35
The mystery of the prize.
Originally posted by bejbis
if i were you, i would listen to LT8Turbo2, hes very knowlageable in this.
if i were you, i would listen to LT8Turbo2, hes very knowlageable in this.
Well, in that case, by all means. LT8Turbo2, tell us everything we should know about why the Microtech is better than the Haltech.
If I were you, bejbis, I would pull my head out of my ***.
Thank you, drive through.
#37
Vosko had the microtech unit on his t2 and sold it for an E6k. I asked him why, and he said the microtech was garbage. Someone else I know said the mircotech was just a bunch of fancy new gizmos, with nice software, and unproven..
I've never seen the Microtech in action, just pfc/e6k/wolf3d...
I've never seen the Microtech in action, just pfc/e6k/wolf3d...
#38
I'm a boost creep...
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Originally posted by eViLRotor
Wolf V4: Approx 23psig max boost with stock MAP sensor
LT8: Approx 20psig max boost with stock MAP sensor
Wolf V4: Approx 23psig max boost with stock MAP sensor
LT8: Approx 20psig max boost with stock MAP sensor
Originally posted by pengarufoo
Fuel cut is the very reason people need a FCD in TurboII's.
Fuel cut is the very reason people need a FCD in TurboII's.
Originally posted by bejbis
...the reason you need FCD in a Tii is because the stock ecu dosnt cut all the fuel like a microtech. it cuts half the fuel, in turn leaning the motor out causeing detonation.
...the reason you need FCD in a Tii is because the stock ecu dosnt cut all the fuel like a microtech. it cuts half the fuel, in turn leaning the motor out causeing detonation.
Originally posted by pengarufoo
If I were you, bejbis, I would pull my head out of my ***.
If I were you, bejbis, I would pull my head out of my ***.
Originally posted by 1Revvin7
Someone else I know said the mircotech was just a bunch of fancy new gizmos, with nice software, and unproven..
I've never seen the Microtech in action, just pfc/e6k/wolf3d...
Someone else I know said the mircotech was just a bunch of fancy new gizmos, with nice software, and unproven..
I've never seen the Microtech in action, just pfc/e6k/wolf3d...
Last edited by NZConvertible; 11-14-03 at 07:20 PM.
#39
The mystery of the prize.
Originally posted by Fingers
pengaru -- come on buddy let everybody speak their minds
pengaru -- come on buddy let everybody speak their minds
#40
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Originally posted by LT8TurboII
I just downloaded the Wolf software and I must say I am very impressed.
I just downloaded the Wolf software and I must say I am very impressed.
Originally posted by eViLRotor
Maybe somebody could post up the corresponding Haltech E6K and E11 numbers for comparison.
Maybe somebody could post up the corresponding Haltech E6K and E11 numbers for comparison.
1) Not every EMS goes about things the same way. This makes comparisons difficult.
2) The EMS makers change their products constantly. No joke, sometimes they change month to month.
3) It is difficult to get hard facts because the official literature sometimes does not agree with the user's experience or perceptions. See my next paragraph for an example.
Originally posted by NZConvertible
The stock MAP sensor can't read higher than ~15psig.
The stock MAP sensor can't read higher than ~15psig.
http://www.microtechefi.com/downloads/LT8specsheet.pdf
Also, I need to try and find my reference for the 20psig I posted. This EMS research stuff isn't easy.
Originally posted by pengarufoo
I love it when people say they are experienced with both then they enumerate pros and cons of both, and closed loop isnt mentioned anywhere in their post.
I love it when people say they are experienced with both then they enumerate pros and cons of both, and closed loop isnt mentioned anywhere in their post.
Originally posted by $150FC
closed loop is not very helpful imho. if it's tuned right you won't need it, anyway.
that said, Steve Kan is tuning my car, so I chose Haltech.
the difference between an LT8 and an E6K/X is small enough that one should definitely go with whatever the tuner prefers.
closed loop is not very helpful imho. if it's tuned right you won't need it, anyway.
that said, Steve Kan is tuning my car, so I chose Haltech.
the difference between an LT8 and an E6K/X is small enough that one should definitely go with whatever the tuner prefers.
#41
Rotorhead
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Re: From Rank Rotary in AUS
Originally posted by eViLRotor
-Wolf 3D Version 4 Kit
Kit includes:
ECU, ECU mounting brackets, Main loom, Input trigger cable, Ignition output cable,
Window sticker, User guide, Installation manual, Warranty card
$1095.00
-Wolf 3D Version 4 HC Kit
Kit includes:
Wolf 3D Version 4 ECU, ECU mounting brackets, Wolf 3D version 4 hand controller,
Main loom, Input trigger loom, Ignition output cable, Plug kit, Air temperature sensor,
Water temp sensor, PC link cable, PC software, Window sticker, Installation manual,
User guide manual, Warranty card
$1395.00
-Wolf 3D Version 4 Kit
Kit includes:
ECU, ECU mounting brackets, Main loom, Input trigger cable, Ignition output cable,
Window sticker, User guide, Installation manual, Warranty card
$1095.00
-Wolf 3D Version 4 HC Kit
Kit includes:
Wolf 3D Version 4 ECU, ECU mounting brackets, Wolf 3D version 4 hand controller,
Main loom, Input trigger loom, Ignition output cable, Plug kit, Air temperature sensor,
Water temp sensor, PC link cable, PC software, Window sticker, Installation manual,
User guide manual, Warranty card
$1395.00
1) In the first kit listed, how do you tune the EMS with no hand controller and no PC software or cable? Is this just for people who already have a Wolf hand controller and/or software, or is it assumed that the end user will download the software and outsource a cable?
2) Are prices in USD?
#42
I'm a boost creep...
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Originally posted by Evil Aviator
Hmm, so when the LT8/LTX8 Spec Sheet states "Max Readable Boost with Internal MAP Sensor 25 PSI", they mean 25psia instead of 25psig? That still doesn't sound right because 15psig would be about 30psia, more or less. Any insight into this?
Hmm, so when the LT8/LTX8 Spec Sheet states "Max Readable Boost with Internal MAP Sensor 25 PSI", they mean 25psia instead of 25psig? That still doesn't sound right because 15psig would be about 30psia, more or less. Any insight into this?
Some people say that MicroTech's use of stock sensors is a good selling point, but I disagree. If I was forking out all that money to replace my ECU I'd want to know the sensors were up to the task. A brand new ECU using 15yo sensors makes no sense to me.
#43
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If you actually go and read my post I never said the Microtech was better than the Haltech at all. In fact the only thing I said was that the Autronic etc were in fact much more advanced.
You are looking to do nothing but turn this what has been so far a VERY good discussion into yet another flame war.
I have hit my fuel cut at high revs and alot of boost. And I still stand by the fact an engine cannot and will not spontaneously combust compressed air without fuel. If that happened air compressors would be big giant ticking time bombs. Engines work with air, spark and fuel, remove any of the above and not much will happen.
Daniel
You are looking to do nothing but turn this what has been so far a VERY good discussion into yet another flame war.
I have hit my fuel cut at high revs and alot of boost. And I still stand by the fact an engine cannot and will not spontaneously combust compressed air without fuel. If that happened air compressors would be big giant ticking time bombs. Engines work with air, spark and fuel, remove any of the above and not much will happen.
Daniel
Originally posted by pengarufoo
Well, in that case, by all means. LT8Turbo2, tell us everything we should know about why the Microtech is better than the Haltech.
If I were you, bejbis, I would pull my head out of my ***.
Thank you, drive through.
Well, in that case, by all means. LT8Turbo2, tell us everything we should know about why the Microtech is better than the Haltech.
If I were you, bejbis, I would pull my head out of my ***.
Thank you, drive through.
#44
I'm a boost creep...
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Originally posted by LT8TurboII
I still stand by the fact an engine cannot and will not spontaneously combust compressed air without fuel. If that happened air compressors would be big giant ticking time bombs. Engines work with air, spark and fuel, remove any of the above and not much will happen.
I still stand by the fact an engine cannot and will not spontaneously combust compressed air without fuel. If that happened air compressors would be big giant ticking time bombs. Engines work with air, spark and fuel, remove any of the above and not much will happen.
#45
Brother of the Rotary
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Re: Re: From Rank Rotary in AUS
Originally posted by Evil Aviator
Two questions:
1) In the first kit listed, how do you tune the EMS with no hand controller and no PC software or cable? Is this just for people who already have a Wolf hand controller and/or software, or is it assumed that the end user will download the software and outsource a cable?
2) Are prices in USD?
Two questions:
1) In the first kit listed, how do you tune the EMS with no hand controller and no PC software or cable? Is this just for people who already have a Wolf hand controller and/or software, or is it assumed that the end user will download the software and outsource a cable?
2) Are prices in USD?
I'm pretty sure its in AUS $...
#46
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Here is a question for the pros: Can both systems easily pass emissions with the right tuning? I'm just getting into this whole mess, and if I can pass emissions with one and not the other, that would be the one I'd have to go with.
#47
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Re: Re: Re: From Rank Rotary in AUS
Originally posted by eViLRotor
No idea. This was taken from Rank Rotary in Australia. They used to offer V3 to v4 upgrades, that is why I had them bookmarked, and just copied the info.
I'm pretty sure its in AUS $...
No idea. This was taken from Rank Rotary in Australia. They used to offer V3 to v4 upgrades, that is why I had them bookmarked, and just copied the info.
I'm pretty sure its in AUS $...
http://www.rankrotary.com.au
The price for the full Wolf V4 kit with hand controller and PC software is about $1,380 USD in the US.
http://www.checkpointmotors.net/Prod...ail.asp?pID=13
#48
BDC Motorsports
I agree entirely on the technical points.
B
B
Originally posted by pengarufoo
I love it when people say they are experienced with both then they enumerate pros and cons of both, and closed loop isnt mentioned anywhere in their post.
Microtech - no closed loop
Haltech - closed loop standard
since most of you guys probably drive your cars on the street regularly, closed loop should be pretty high on the priority list. Without it, your fuel economy is going to suck more than it would under normal pported exhaust rotary conditions.
Not to mention the microtech only supports fuel cut style rev limit.
Haltech supports fuel cut or ignition cut, ignition cut style is preferable over the fuel cut on a rotary. There are other forms of rev limit available with standalones, but the scope of this thread is essentially microtech vs. haltech.
I love it when people say they are experienced with both then they enumerate pros and cons of both, and closed loop isnt mentioned anywhere in their post.
Microtech - no closed loop
Haltech - closed loop standard
since most of you guys probably drive your cars on the street regularly, closed loop should be pretty high on the priority list. Without it, your fuel economy is going to suck more than it would under normal pported exhaust rotary conditions.
Not to mention the microtech only supports fuel cut style rev limit.
Haltech supports fuel cut or ignition cut, ignition cut style is preferable over the fuel cut on a rotary. There are other forms of rev limit available with standalones, but the scope of this thread is essentially microtech vs. haltech.
#50
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Originally posted by BDC
I agree entirely on the technical points.
B
I agree entirely on the technical points.
B
I have an LT8 on my car with no idle control, no closed loop. I have NO problems (after the car was properly tuned) getting well over 22mpg, and having my car idle properly with lights, AC, stereo and wipers running. My car STILL idles more consistantly than it did stock and if I try I am also able to still get better gas mileage than the stock ECU, even when I was in a 2D mode. I also have my car tuned extremely rich for cruise and it could stand to be leaned out quite a bit more. I have no issues with cold starts after I have tuned those correction maps either.
And I still want and answer as to why one of the worlds most famous haltech tuners diabled closed loop on the ECU's he tuned while I was in Atlanta (atleast on the 2 cars I have ready access to.) These were both registered street driven cars, and both got better gas mileage on the way back then they did on the way up with closed loop enabled.
THIS IS NOT TO SAY NO ONE WILL HAVE PROBLEMS. I can only speak and will only speak for myself and my own expieriences.
As far as fuel cut limiters, you yourself has said Brian that as long as the Microtech is operating in sequencial mode there is no harm in it. If the ECU was operating in a batch fire setup it would be possible for damage to occur and I will say that. However, as long as the Microtech is operating as the manufactureer advertises this should not be a problem, and we have no reason to doubt Microtech or Microtech Global on these issues as they have been more than helpful and upfront to customers, and that is more than what can be said for Haltech USA and Haltech AU at times.
The bottom line comes down to each ECU has its own points of contention. I really agree with Evil Aviator in the fact that the ECU should be purchased as a package from your chosen tuner. If I lived in Garland Texas and had Brian on tap and ready I would 100% have an E6K in my car. I have never said it is a piece of trash or that there is anything wrong with it as a system. I have only pointed out what I feel are the strong and weak points are for it. I have not brought up the fact that there are possible ignition timing issues or any of the other stuff the "anti-Haltech Zealots" rant and rave about. Why? I have never witnessed this and so to me it is only heresay and I will presume it so until myself or somone I trust see's this first hand. The points I have brought up may differ for other people as to what they need to get out of an ECU. On the other hand if I had Jon or Dale on tap, I'd have to stick with my Microtech. I really had neither on hand so as previously stated I went with the Microtech because it was pretty much unknown in the states at the time and I wanted to give it a try.
Scott, ever feel like going back to that bridge ported RX3 I rode in about 5 years ago in Tampa, I am starting to think I should form a group of caburation zealots...who's with me.
Last edited by LT8TurboII; 11-15-03 at 08:28 AM.