Doc,

Any thought to the idea of letting us continue selling until this situation is resolved? As long as we give you our consent that we'll work with you when a plan is implemented...

That would be against the existing forum rules... the same rules that have been here for 8+ years.

So you think we should just ignore the forum rules again? Instead of coming up with a real solution?

Not at all. All I'm saying is put some thought in to atleast letting us continue selling until a solution is reached. I understand that the forum rules were being breached, but the fact is that they weren't being enforced properly by the existing ownership. Now that these violations are being addressed why not atleast let the forum continue running the way it was for these past years and once a solution is reached we can cooperate?


I don't believe anyone in this thread is against reaching a solution, we just want some more information and a possible solution date.

That is a bad assumption. Example for myself and most likely many more affected by this:

I buy a turbo for 1300 from some dealer, I change my mind, like I can change underwear apparently, and I decide to sell the turbo for 800 because that is the used market. Then I have to pay because I have "escessive" forsale ad's and im losing even more of my hard earned money to have the previliage to sell on this board..

Make sense?

Yes and No.

Yes it makes sense that it would suck to be paying more on your end to list the part that you are already listing lower than what you have invested.

No because to IB/ owners it does not matter to them. They are not going to customize the rules around each individual. To them, selling is selling.

Charlie, I understand where you are coming from, but in their eyes, whether your making $100 or loosing $500, you are still using their forum/ bandwidth to do it.

So why not just shut the fucker down altogether if they are so worried about it, and let everyone use ebay? Oh right, I forgot...more than half of the people that come to this site, do so to buy and sell used parts for their car. A lot of my customers bring me cars and I give them a list of everything they need. I ask if they are on the forum, and they are like "whats the forum?". I send them here to find used parts that they need. IF they wander into the tech section and actually learn something about their car, so much the better.

Charlie - Don't get me wrong. I don't consider myself a deal by slinging used parts, but if it comes down to dropping a dime to be able to continue to post then so be it.

I personally don't think that any changes should have been made until the decisions have been thoughtout and put into place. This shit if shutting people down, removing signatures and then saying "We are waiting on a decision" is a crock. I understand that the moderators listen to a higher power but this is exactly how you end up loosing members.

Actually shutting down the classifieds all together was brought up several times, however as I said before, it takes time to make a decision. It is not like some small shop that has a single owner making all the decisions and can say funk you because he didn’t like something said. It is a community.

If you want to sell, and you just can't wait... put up your own website in the mean time like charlies7 did... however don't advertise your site here, unless you want to pay to be an advertiser or get banned... Right charlies7?

What exactly did I do to get an infraction...I followed forum rules.

Whats the difference between someone telling people to sell on EBAY like what you mods are doing....Vs what I said..???

LOL

For people that are curious I recieved an infraction for posting another link to a forum where selling is better for more people. I would post the infraction but I might be breaking the rules again....sigh.

Sorry Charlie,No, you did not.

It is a site that is offering buying and selling of parts. Read the rule and comprehend it. It is a vendor site.

5. Banners or information linking to vendor sites ARE NOT ALLOWED in signatures unless the vendor being listed is a paying site vendor.

It is not allowed in your signature and that's that.

Doc.

I was recently Pm'd regarding the # of posts that I had in the FS sections. I have recently sold a lot of parts using this forum and CL. I am not a buisness, I am a contributing member to the forum (in the tech section). RX7doctor was very helpful in cleaning up my mess, and I am adhering to the forum rules now...

I am selling parts recently to clean house (12 years of RX-7 collecting) has yielded tons of parts, and i am making room for yet another Rx-7. I don't count on this forum for my livelyhood by any means but I do like to assist the community in restoring thier cars ( I often sell parts for shipping alone or even free to locals).

I have missed people like Kevin posting in the FS section as he was one of the good people to buy from. His buisness is not a parts buisness and he does more of a service to the community then making money off parts. He builds motors.

Either way I do feel like the FS section brings tons of people to the forum (and those adsense deals work off visitors) so money is made via the click in ratios..

I hate to see GOOD members get blacklisted just because the happen to own a rotary based buisness...

$200 a year is steep for some... I can't imagine what it might actually turn out to cost. I just hope that I do not fall in that catagory..

Ummmm No, how is the actual site a vendor?

Just so that I understand what you are saying about Charlie posting the ad earlier to another website... Won't this previous quote be a infraction as well?

Charlie, No offense but for a College student your comprehension is questionable.:)

Definition of "Vendor".

one that vends: seller.

Since there are classifieds in that site, that makes it a vendor site.

Quotes are not the same as a "Signature".

Lets stop all of the nit picking again on what it what. It is not accomplishing anything at all here. That is why these threads get locked down. They turn into bitch sessions and offer nothing but more issues.

r

Doc, I personally think this is a very bad idea/proposal. Allow me to explain...

1) As it stands, vendors are not allowed to sell in the general Classifieds section. I personally don't like that, because I think it imposes on our ability to reach the large # of forum members who aren't familiar w/ the various forum vendors, and thus do not frequent our vendor sections. Thus, it limits our ability to sell. And that is NOT good for IB, because the more we sell, the more we can afford to pay for advertising. So IMO, it's in IB's best interest to allow and encourage its vendors to continue to sell and prosper, because the are IB's largest source of profit.

2) Making a sub-forum for only paid sellers is also a very bad idea. As other members have mentioned, because most of the big time (and well trusted) sellers have been prohibited from selling on on the forum, the Classifieds section is full of noobs and scammers. I, for one, am VERY hesitant to purchase expensive parts from sellers I have no previous positive history on. So by limiting the well known and trusted sellers to a subforum, you're gonna have the vast majority of buyers visiting only this paid subection, essentially ignoring the general classifieds section, which is full of new guys and those of doubt (which often end up going hand-in-hand). And because of this, you'll be bringing upon yourself A HUGE headache from complaints about this setup (although the well known sellers prob. won't have much too complain about haha ;))

So what's MY proposal? Simple. Allow EVERYONE to post in the Classifieds section, and simply label ppl (somewhere around their username/avatar) based on their seller status. Paid sellers can be "Gold" or "Verified" members, or even "Power Seller," so everyone (mods as well as regular forum guys) know that member has paid his dues. And vendors will be labeled as "Forum Vendor" too. Everyone sells and competes on a level playing field, in one subforum, w/o having redundant forums that would otherwise be ignored, and without unnecessary restrictions limiting ppl from posting For Sale threads in only specific situations & locations.

Again, the premise here is simple: make commerce on the forum EASY, because the more WE make, the more IB makes.

That's my $0.02,
~Ramy

Ramy,
There was a mis-interpretation of the Classified sections.

Paying vendors are allowed to post for sale threads in the classified sections. The only non-allowable threads for paying vendors in the classifieds are the group buys.
So feel free to post your regular for sale threads there.

Thank you for taking the time to give input on this subject. All suggestions/recommendations are being looked at to resolve this situation.

Doc.

WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

LET THE SELLING BEGIN! :bigthumb::ylsuper: :rock: :score: :bluesuit: :101384_l: :us4allswi :suitdance :git: :dubs: :djcelebra :jump: :smiley309 :blue:

So... since the numbers have been bounced around.

What is the cost for a vendor?

What is the incentive's of this?

Limitations?

I understand that, however why its never a problem when people post there local websites on this forum with FS sections and theres never an issue..so I beg the question. "Whats the difference?"

You need to contact the advertising department for this information.
AutoAdvertiser@internetbrands.com for more information.

I'll calm myself down and wait until you guys come up with a solid solution to all of this.

Believe it, but I thank you guys for trying to get stuff figured out.

Indyparts, one of the long-held limitations were that you could NOT start your own FS threads in the Classifieds section; you could only respond to existing threads. So as you can imagine, it was quite frustrating reaching a large enough market to sell parts to.

What was even MORE frustrating that certain vendors on this forum (albeit that they were never PAYING vendors...ie they sold on the forum for free) would routinely post in the Classifieds section. In fact, that's ALL they did, day after day, month after month. And of course, naturally, it rubbed me the wrong way, cuz there I was, taking the legit route, paying several thousand dollars out of pocket for the Forum Vendor privileges (and restrictions) that others WEREN'T paying, while posting freely in the Classifieds section, where I technically could NOT do so.

But hey, alas, that's been clarified, and it's no longer an issue for me. Good things come to those who wait ;) So hopefully now the only thing left is that these individuals (that I believe need not be named at this point) man up and respect the forum rules, pay their advertising fees, and venture down the legit route that others have already adopted.

~Ramy

Charlie,

You need to provide me with an example of this.
If it is not in their signature then it is not an issue. The acceptable norm of this as an example is when a member asks in a thread in their specific forum something like this. Where can I find a replacement rear hatch support for my car?

Then a member responds with. Try rockauto.com or mazdatrix.com,etc.....

1). When a member posts in their signature their own personal site that sells or a site that offers items for sale then that is direct advertising for those sites and are not allowable unless those site are paying fees on this Club.

understandable, but im not here to find that information for you :)

Then don't bring it up if you can't back it up with a factual example. Their are almost 17 thousand active members on the Club. Their are 29 mods, a lot that are not that active. You do the math. Their are a lot of members that don't post very often so the chances of catching every violation is not that high for those that don't post on a regular basis.

Those that do make their presence known on a regular basis and have violations will therefore be more likely to be contacted. :)

lol, I think I knew that already...

OK lets get back on topic about selling on here...Im curious to know

It's almost pontless to attemt to try and resolve the issue at this point. The classifieds section has been overun by a bunch of Bureaucrats. If it isn't evident by the fact that the well known sellers are being forced to make a whole other site dedicated to selling then i don't know what else is.

Unfortunatly somebody has some sort of agenda to turn this place into a money machine rather than an enthusiast fun spot. So now everyone is going to be nickel and dimed to death.

This will be my last recommendation. Why not just offer a yearly membership for members of say $20 that gives them added features like posting FS items in the classifeds period,posting pictures, having a pic in your avatar, being able to view more threads etc.... Thats how i have seen other sites do it and they change the persons color above there name. Instead of charging veteran members a ridiculus amount of money just for the classifieds, why not just charge a small amount to all long time loyal members for multiple added benifits that non payers would not get.

I have no problem supporting this place. But in all honesty the process of change around here is going all wrong.

Agreed, I dont mind paying 20 bucks if thats the case. I mean that is lunch money for a week for a poor college student but I dont mind paying it :)

BackyardSog: That's a great suggestion. I've never understood why this forum hasn't adopted such a simple policy?


IB is big enough and smart enough to know or atleast figure out how other forums have generated revenue. They've done so by adopting membership fee policies. Also, this is an option for added features and general members need not pay. It's entirely up to the forum member. Look at a site like "Offtopic.com". This is their policy and it seems to be VERY effective. Has this even been considered?

Doc,

Please explain this a bit further.

As a paying vendor I am allowed to post within the "classified" section as long as the rules are met?

-billy

Yes, you are Billy.

So i take it this topic is just being brushed under the rug

Here, let me respond on their behalf...we already know what excuses are going to be given.

"This is not a one man operation, the decision making process will take a while. All we can do is wait for word from IB."

"The mods do not make policy on this forum, we just enforce it."

"The rules are clearly stated, they were there when you signed up, and even though we've all ignored them for the last few years, it's completely okay that we have decided to enforce them with an iron fist at this time. You guys are just whiners."

"If you dont like the way things are here, then go somewhere else, it is a big internet."

"We will get back to you when we have something more to report and can actually answer your questions. In the meantime though, we'll continue to ride your asses and lock certain people out of the selling areas, even though there is no option for resolution in place yet. Kinda like arresting people and not setting a trial date, but holding them in jail in the meantime."

^^ Hit the nail on the head, lol

However it does make sense about the rules since they cant make them, but the strict enforcement is kinda rash. :(

I am sure they will come up with something in the mean time but until that time is meant you can check out www.rotarycarclub.com. Its a great site with build up threads, tuning tips and everything above.

Im sure im not breaking the rules right doc? ;)

What ever happened to this? I thought you were suppossed to get back to us...

why not? they are the ones who is taking your money, all decisions goes through them...if I'm taking your money, this would have been resolved by now!!!

to a certain extent, yes. we can change the rules if we see fit


it is what it is...if something provided to you for "free", you should be happy of what you get while you still have it...also, there is no such thing is "free" in this world...

another true statement, it's your freedom of choice, be somewhere where it can make you happy....


if the person can make the decision doesnt, what can the subodinate do? just have to wait and see

No, there are multiple threads on it in the moderator section of the board. It is being discussed and looked at on almost a daily basis.

Nothing good ever happens instantly.

Frankly, I suspect that if you guys keep whining and complaining that they will just say funk them, it stays the way it is and that is that.

Instead of many of the moderator staff trying to help you guys with solution.

And then you have people like Kevin here, that seems to just want to make trouble instead of waiting for a fair and good solution to be found.

You folks constantly refer to the rule of anyone who frequently has items for sale, yet cannot determine what frequency it is. Kevin has a valid point. If these IB folks are dragging their feet then maybe IB Management should be aware of the issue and replace the folks with people more interested in doing their job.

I'm sorry but it does NOT take months to resolve an issue as simple as this. Someone is dragging their feet/dropping the ball etc. Anyone who has a legitimate managerial job in a medium to large corporation should know this.

As to the whining and complaining statement. It's a proven fact when companies blatently burn their customers they will eat it two fold in lost profit and bad PR. Granted, Ebay might not be reeling from their recent policy change but where does IB and the Rx7club stand against Ebay?

That has been covered countless times. I am not covering it again.

Speaking not as an IB employee or even hired consultant, but merely someone on the side line, I would think that IB and RX7club would have absolutely no care about ebay at all. They don't run auction or sales sites.

If IB didn't make money before on classifieds, and they are not making money on classifieds now... how could it effect anything?

and as far as burning customers, you don't pay anything to come here. Its free. Therefore you are not a customer. No more than someone watching TV or listening to the radio is a customer of that station.

Now if you buy advertising, then you would be a customer of IB. But again, not a customer of this board.

But regardless of that, I don't see Kevin leaving... I don't see you leaving, I don't see charlies7 leaving. I see Kevin doing things that hurt the rotary community in general and in spite because of what he perceived as actions here against him, but that really was his choice. Not because anyone here forced him too, or told him he had to take down his personal web pages. He did that on his own in spite. I hope that others like yourself or charlies7 don't follow suit in also trying to hurt the rotary community, but nobody here can stop you if you make that choice.

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. They didn't make money before and are not making money now. BUT they want to. The changes they have made were not for the benefit of the Rotary community but for business, pure and simple. They don't care about the rotary community, they are here to make money off the rotary community, otherwise they would not have bought the forum.

Again, im being put in the category of shop owner:Wconfused :icon_tup: . Also there is no way that I could "hurt" the rotary community, this site has already done enough of that.:scared: I am actually gauging some humor out of this, I love comic relief.

I know it's easy to read one line into it and then summarily rush to your comment but from what I've read of your posts so far IB is still mulling what indicates the difference between a frequent and infrequent seller.

My opinion doesn't matter on the issue. But I'll input my .02 here: Usually I run into a situation once a year where I feel I need to change something on my car and I end up selling 4-5 parts within a 2 month period and then you won't see me in there for quite some time. I'm afraid the new rules will put me into the frequent sellers group.

I am not out to hurt the community. This entire ordeal has not affected me (yet) aside from making it harder to find parts that I need. However, when I see the sellers out there frustrated for months without a solution I empathize with them. If I was implicated as a frequent seller I would not leave. However I would spend more time on other boards to sell my items. I would end up on the losing end of the deal. Someone has got to stop dragging their feet and pick up the ball, etc to find a solution for our frequent sellers.

I didn't hurt the community, nor did I remove any information from the community. I simply moved it to a more appreciative community forum. I will not be a part of bringing in members and assisting the growth and vitality of the very forum that insults me.

Mark, you are a master manipulator of words. You try to turn this around on me. For years I've dispensed good, cheap used parts to those in need when I could have sold them for 2 or 3 times as much if money was on my mind. I have helped many thousands of people with no benefit to myself.

Yet when this forum suddenly up and changes itself and slaps me in the face, and I raise my voice so as to make it known to the general masses and not be led around like a sheep, you sit here and tell me how I am being childish, acting in spite, and hurting the community.

No, it is you and your new order forum rules that are hurting the community. YOu take away all the reliable sellers, leaving scammers and stupid people who rip others off. You edit and delete others' postings without good reason. When someone makes a public comment or raises a question, you slap them down and tell them "this is the way it is, don't question my authoritah, like it or leave". Threads in the suggestion area get edited, closed, or moved to the archive where they can't be posted in any more.

This method of running a large community bears a striking resemblence to another form of government, and it never quite worked out that well either.

You say we are not customers of this forum if we don't pay as an advertiser, and that we will not be missed. What do you think makes this forum great to begin with? All the people, all the parts, all the information here, brings in other people. Advertisers pay the owner for this target audience. The bigger the audience, the more they are justified in paying. But, even though the general member does not pay, he is valuable to the forum as part of that audience. Those members who contribute much to the information or parts pool here, are largely responsible for bringing in may of the general members.

So it is no stretch of the imagination to see that some members such as myself who are consistent presences here are responsible for the success of this forum, and thus bringing in the advertisers and money. So in a way, yes, we are customers of this place, and we all have a vested interest in how it operates.

Kevin,

The forum has ended it's days of free exchange and trade. They've changed models from "just enough to get by" to a "For profit enterprise".

IB isn't interested in Rx-7's. They're interested in how many people visit this site and methods by which they can profit from page hits.

I get the impression that Icemark doesn't like it anymore then you do, but he's either got to go along with the change or hang up the Mod gloves where someone else (possibly far less caring) will come along to fill the shoes.

And yet still no response from the Email I sent to Internet Brands asking for pricing info............................................

In another past thread, someone that asked IB got a response of $800...we assume that was a monthly figure. That's why I havent even bothered asking recently, coupled with the reported poor response that others have gotten.

Kevin,
You own and operate a business.

Your bitching about not being able to advertise in the classifieds for free.
Why should you be allowed as a Business to advertise for free when other businesses on this Club are paying for advertising?

If you would of recontacted me concerning this then I would of sent an email on your behalf to them.

The 4 or 5 times that I have done this when members have stated that they have not received a response they were contacted.

The member that contacted me recently about this had a phone call back from IB in 15 minutes after I contacted them.

If you want pm me with your contact info and I will forward it to them.