Rx-8 Rotors To Rebuild Gsl-se Engine?
08-08-05 | 01:08 PM
#1
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From: Toronto, Canada
Rx-8 Rotors To Rebuild Gsl-se Engine?
Hi All:
Have a '84 GSL-SE and looking at a rebuild this year. Wanted to find any info on installing RX-8 rotors as part of the rebuild for this FB engine. Have found only limited conflicting details on the board concerning this topic. Has anyone tried this in a rebuild? Does anyone know if this is possible, what issues to consider (ie; eccentric shaft balance, side/apex seals, require RX-8 flywheel & parts, etc), any major boost in ponies as a result?
thx for the help....
Have a '84 GSL-SE and looking at a rebuild this year. Wanted to find any info on installing RX-8 rotors as part of the rebuild for this FB engine. Have found only limited conflicting details on the board concerning this topic. Has anyone tried this in a rebuild? Does anyone know if this is possible, what issues to consider (ie; eccentric shaft balance, side/apex seals, require RX-8 flywheel & parts, etc), any major boost in ponies as a result?
thx for the help....
08-08-05 | 01:35 PM
#2
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: London, Ontario, Canada
I believe that you have to machine the groves for the peripheral exhaust style apex seals to fit.
You should also ask yourself is it worth it? Banzaitoyota built an engine with renesis rotors dynoed it, tore it down and built it again with S5 n/a rotors and dynoed again. He stated that the difference was 8hp. He has been doing something with a peripheral port engine so perhaps that was the engine he tried it in.
Bang for the buck wise it's hard to beat a S4 or S5 13BT. eg. Nismo Convertable88 made 240rwhp on a S5 engine, with an exhaust, intake, Rtech and 720 injectors.
You should also ask yourself is it worth it? Banzaitoyota built an engine with renesis rotors dynoed it, tore it down and built it again with S5 n/a rotors and dynoed again. He stated that the difference was 8hp. He has been doing something with a peripheral port engine so perhaps that was the engine he tried it in.
Bang for the buck wise it's hard to beat a S4 or S5 13BT. eg. Nismo Convertable88 made 240rwhp on a S5 engine, with an exhaust, intake, Rtech and 720 injectors.
08-08-05 | 01:45 PM
#3
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 940
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From: Ontario
Originally Posted by Snrub
I believe that you have to machine the groves for the peripheral exhaust style apex seals to fit.
You should also ask yourself is it worth it? Banzaitoyota built an engine with renesis rotors dynoed it, tore it down and built it again with S5 n/a rotors and dynoed again. He stated that the difference was 8hp. He has been doing something with a peripheral port engine so perhaps that was the engine he tried it in.
Bang for the buck wise it's hard to beat a S4 or S5 13BT. eg. Nismo Convertable88 made 240rwhp on a S5 engine, with an exhaust, intake, Rtech and 720 injectors.
You should also ask yourself is it worth it? Banzaitoyota built an engine with renesis rotors dynoed it, tore it down and built it again with S5 n/a rotors and dynoed again. He stated that the difference was 8hp. He has been doing something with a peripheral port engine so perhaps that was the engine he tried it in.
Bang for the buck wise it's hard to beat a S4 or S5 13BT. eg. Nismo Convertable88 made 240rwhp on a S5 engine, with an exhaust, intake, Rtech and 720 injectors.
08-08-05 | 02:01 PM
#4
Earlier this year I was involved in a 90 GXL rebuild with a hybrid motor...ala rx-8 internals.
Firstly its not going to be cheap....
Correct you will need all the associated RX-8 rotor seals.
Motor used a FD eccentrc shaft and oiling system.
Exhaust sleeves removed from housings.
Ported intake ports.
Motor is pretty tight.
First install was with a stock FW and clutch setup, lasted 1 week.
The motor loves to rev. 9.5 to 10k easily.
Its now got full rb exhaust, LW FW ans 6 puck clutch presently.
I drove with this setup, drives like a normal na until 3k and its like a different beast after that.
Produces a very unique sound at idle, but loud at higher rpms, its a na what do you expect.
You would need a good rotary engine builder to do this PROPERLY as you wild be building a high dollar na motor.
No dyno numbers yet
Good Luck.
Amkard
Firstly its not going to be cheap....
Correct you will need all the associated RX-8 rotor seals.
Motor used a FD eccentrc shaft and oiling system.
Exhaust sleeves removed from housings.
Ported intake ports.
Motor is pretty tight.
First install was with a stock FW and clutch setup, lasted 1 week.
The motor loves to rev. 9.5 to 10k easily.
Its now got full rb exhaust, LW FW ans 6 puck clutch presently.
I drove with this setup, drives like a normal na until 3k and its like a different beast after that.
Produces a very unique sound at idle, but loud at higher rpms, its a na what do you expect.
You would need a good rotary engine builder to do this PROPERLY as you wild be building a high dollar na motor.
No dyno numbers yet
Good Luck.
Amkard
Last edited by ROTRY PWR; 08-08-05 at 02:03 PM.
08-08-05 | 02:43 PM
#5
Mazdatrix did initial testing with these in a race engine non-turbo 13b.
they didn't reach any conclusive results, and no one has properly document anything close to formal yet. i am still looking into this matter to figure something definitive out...
the major issues:
- you can not use the renesis apex seal; your options are to machine the grooves to accept the 13b seals, or to use renesis ceramic/race seals
- the side seal clearance is not within 13b spec, however it work out quite well if you plan on building a high revving engine (larger clearance)
- i believe the corner seal on the renesis is quite a bit harder than the old 13b. because of this plan on using S5 housings to minimize premature wear/scoring
- renesis uses different front and rear rotors; there is still no definitive answer on which combination to use, but consensus says to use 2 rear rotors
other notes:
- 10.0:1 CR
- the renesis rotor has the best manufacturing process to date compared to previous wankels, creating a stronger and better balance rotor; the rotor is also lighter than previous ones
- the rotor is chamferred/scalloped/bevelled (whatever you want to call it) from the factory to allow greater intake timing and more efficient fuel burn
- brand new it is the cheapest rotor to purchase from Mazda at the moment
there is a lot of info on rx8club.com (i think the engine building section)
they didn't reach any conclusive results, and no one has properly document anything close to formal yet. i am still looking into this matter to figure something definitive out...
the major issues:
- you can not use the renesis apex seal; your options are to machine the grooves to accept the 13b seals, or to use renesis ceramic/race seals
- the side seal clearance is not within 13b spec, however it work out quite well if you plan on building a high revving engine (larger clearance)
- i believe the corner seal on the renesis is quite a bit harder than the old 13b. because of this plan on using S5 housings to minimize premature wear/scoring
- renesis uses different front and rear rotors; there is still no definitive answer on which combination to use, but consensus says to use 2 rear rotors
other notes:
- 10.0:1 CR
- the renesis rotor has the best manufacturing process to date compared to previous wankels, creating a stronger and better balance rotor; the rotor is also lighter than previous ones
- the rotor is chamferred/scalloped/bevelled (whatever you want to call it) from the factory to allow greater intake timing and more efficient fuel burn
- brand new it is the cheapest rotor to purchase from Mazda at the moment
there is a lot of info on rx8club.com (i think the engine building section)
Last edited by coldfire; 08-08-05 at 03:11 PM.
08-08-05 | 02:43 PM
#6
Former Rx7 *****
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,534
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From: Mississauga
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