ourxseven

iTrader: (1)

I cant ******' believe what I came home to on the news .

dion is a loser cry baby , layton has good ideas but should never run a country , and duseppe is a racist french supremist that doesn't want Canada

WTF are they thinking . We voted a prime minister , let him do his job and vote again if you don't ike it . These guys are like three school kids that didn't get picked to play so they join together and steal the ball

If this doesn't make us sink in the current world economic trouble , nothing will,

I am so PISSED OFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Feds

Only 1/3 of people really voted for Harper. We always bitch that our vote doesn't count for anything, and this is a chance for the people that 2/3 of Canadians to shape policy.

Harper made his bed by trying to bully everyone with his "Every vote is a confidence vote" crap, and now he gets to lie in it. Better to have the consesus builder running the show than the Alberta seperatist (look it up).

His pissing and moaning about "stealing power" shows either a fundimental ignorance of the constitution of this country, or a lack of respect for the intellegence of the electorate.

Buggy

iTrader: (8)

Yep....Our government is completely USELESS!!!!! Has been for years, hence the current problems that exist in our world. The problem is that unless everyone in the entire country joins together to do something about it nothing will change. The political system that runs our country has lost touch with the country it runs. They're all too busy pointing fingers at each other and whining about pointless little things that they never address the key problems that exist in our world anymore. They just put them on the back burner and hope they don't boil over.

Leigh Adams

democracy?

what's that?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

Once upon a Time in the US,there was an Idiot,named George Bush.they saw he was an Idiot and then Elected a Good man named Barrack Obama.he would be Perfect to give Ideas to Steven Harper.
Then came along another Idiot..Stephane Dion,Who can't even Talk English,Unless he is ordering a Crumpet.
Beaten by Harper in a recent election causing Taxpayers money that could have been spend Fixing Whet the other parties say is Wrong NOW.
So,what do they Do?..Can't beat Harper singled Handedly,they now have to Gang up and Do it as a Triple Threat Grudge Match..More like WWE.
What a Farce.
I swear if Dion gets in as leader,I am going up there and Creating a BIG Stink,.as in Starting up My Seven under his Window,and letting it Idle.
Carbon Tax me Stephane Dion.I'd be well worth it to make you a FOSSIL..
OH ya,that's Carbon too.
..ah Fugg it..Stupid People seem to get the Big Bucks in this country.
I'm Staying Home and watching Peoples' Court.
...maybe I may get Voted in.I'd have an Education in law then...
Just when things get Better.The dog Poops on the Lawn.
..Crazy Rant..DONE..STYX..

Leafy

Hey Fellow Canadians, here's a good read that should clear everything up for you.

The Three Stooges of Coupscam
by Charles Adler.

Let's be clear about something. The ECONOMY has NOTHING to do with the not so silent coup that is taking place as we watch history...need a name for it? remember Adscam? Call this one COUPSCAM. It's a perfect name for what's happening on several levels and it is so Canadian..So bilingual. So au bilingue. COUPSCAM. A coup that is dressed up as a bid by the opposition to help the economy. Of course it is not anything close to that, as we learned over the weekend when we heard the tape of Jack Layton telling his caucus, that he had a deal in place way back when with Gilles Duceppe, to strike when the iron became hot. The economy would simply be the rationale used to hit, and to hit hard. One needs to forgive anyone who regular votes Liberal if they feel some shame listening to Jack Layton the of the archicects of the coup, who along with Bloc Quebecois leader Gilles Duceppe, leading the Liberals into the corral. The Liberals were at one time known as the natural national governing party. They now have become the sheep being herded by the two great sheep herders of Canada, the two men who are motivated by their love of country? Now to quote from Sheep herder Layton from his weekend NDP caucus meeting..."We¹re in the middle of a very historic time, and we¹re playing a key role in it, in some ways a catalytic role actually, because as we think back, we¹ll realize that nobody really imagined that it would be possible for the Bloc Quebecois, the Liberal party of Canada ever to enter into any kind of a discussion around the future of the country and it turned out that we were the glue, and spotted and prepared for the opportunity, and had taken the steps that were required so that when that opportunity arose, which was when Mr. Harper made his disastrous strategic error, by not providing stimulus to the economy, and instead playing political games, we were able to move, and things began to move very quickly, however, many obstacles remain in our way, and so we¹re in a real battle now. The negotiating process, I am, by the way in very regular touch with the leader of the Liberal party, and the leader of the Bloc, frequently every day."

So there you have it Sheep Herder Layton saying that they were preparing for the opportunity and it arose last week. This is known in polite circles as opportunism. Many of you who have emailed me in the last few days have been calling it treason. For the record this is not legal treason. But one would not be on shaky ground in calling it ethical treason. Nobody doubts that this plot is undermining confidence in Canada and nobody doubts that this will sew seeds of resentment in various parts of Canada. Nobody doubts that it will make this a less unified country. Imagine the reaction in Western Canada if a coup led by the the Toronto based NDP of Jack Layton and Quebec separatists manages to succeed and in doing so , immediately does damage to their number one economic target the ENERGY industry. Does anyone doubt that the pols in the east who want to hit the Conservatives will, if given power, hit the energy industry? The can do with carbon taxes and other schemes designed to attack Western Canadian wealth. These sheep herders know that the flames of Western Separatism will immediately be ignited and how could that possibly damage the fortunes of Quebec Separatism? A growing western separatist movement is Quebec sovereignty's best friend. Is it any wonder that Gilles Duceppe acts like a guy who knows he will have one very Merry Christmas? Does anyone find it ironic that people like Jean Chretien and Stephane Dion who made reputations for themselves as staunch federalists would now in the lust for naked power lie down with the separatist lion. Coupscam has many consequences. And a damaged confederation is just one of them. Those who thrive on chaos, people like Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe and Bob Rae are loving this. One of the big questions today is What is Michael Ignatieff thinking? If he is using that big brain of his, as opposed to the little brain some of the plotters are using, he will understand that a Liberal government dog that is being wagged by a NDP/BlocQuebecois tale is a dog that will be euthanized by the Canadian voter.

Folks what you need to remember the most about COUPSCAM is that it could not happen without an incredible amount of blood lust coming from ancient liberal party hacks who have seen the set on their empire. One of those hacks is Scott Reid. He used to be a Paul Martin guy, his communications guy, during the decline and fall of Liberalism in the wake of ADSCAM. Scott Reid took his bitterness and blood lust to his computer key board on the weekend and tapped out the following. If you have some tiny shreds of doubt about what motivates Liberals to get on board Coup Scam, this will shred the shreds.

"After all, Stephen Harper is the most dangerous animal lurking in the jungles of Parliament, writes Scott Reid. Kill him. Kill him dead. Do not, whatever you do, provide him with an opportunity to extend his hold on power. Because you can be damn certain he will never again be so reckless as to give you a chance to finish him off. ..The other elephant in the room is leadership. Stephane Dion has bargained his way to the drive wheel of the new government. Good for him, but only if it suits the greater good. If Mr. Dion can make his case, then great. If he can't, move to an alternative - and do it fast. Mr. Harper knows that his greatest advantage lies in Mr. Dion's weakness. The coalition can't let that impulse triumph. Don't permit the defeat of Mr. Harper to depend upon Mr. Dion's personal credibility - or that of any single individual, for that matter. There's too much at stake."

Those are the words of former Paul Martin communications director Scott Reid. They tell you 2 things. 1) Coup Scam is not about serving the public interest. It is about putting hemlock in Stephen Harper's orange juice. It is not about economic satisfaction. It is about political assassination. 2) Reid points out while Harper is the target, Dion needs to be either a useful dunce or an expendable nuisance. The plotter who wishes to kill Harper could care less about whether or not Dion is collateral damage. There's too much at stake says the Liberal hack. No single individual matters. No single individual can be permitted to get in the way. And so the man who was part of the plot to overthrow Jean Chretien,not for economic reasons or patriotic reasons but for the most partisan of reasons, now wishes to destroy Stephen Harper.

There are a few things I'd like to say personally to the major players in Coup Scam.

To Jack Layton:

Jack a couple of months ago you said you wanted to be prime minister and that was the job you were applying for. You had to know at the time that you would not get that job going through the front door and that was confirmed with the election results. But since Harper was a dozen seats short of a majority, you saw your move and you made it and over the weekend, you confessed it. It's now on tape as historical record. I guess if you are looking for a seat at the cabinet table, this is as good as it gets. Bet you're disappointed as hell that Svend Robinson is no longer a member of your caucus. Bet you think he would make as good a foreign affairs minister as you would a finance minister. Good luck with that Jack. And wish us all good luck. The Stock Market is just above 8 thousand 4hundred today. I guess from your perspective that is still 8 thousand four hundred more than your favorite number for Capitalism, ZERO.

To Gilles Duceppe:

Well I have to admit you must be laughing all the way to the bank these days. When it come to fund raising your separatist brothers are more bankrupt than Lehman Brothers. But over the last few years the Canadian taxpayer has sent you more than 5 million dollars. You sit in the hammock. We send you millions. It's a great deal for you and about to get a lot better. While you won't likely have a seat at the cabinet table, you will be an armed guard at the door, and if they don't do the right things at the table, I suppose you can take them hostage, or to use Scott Reid's words, just kill them all. Who knows? Maybe since you are holding the gun, maybe you can negotiate yourself a cabinet portfolio. May I respectfully suggest Minister of National Disunity.

And finally to Stephane Dion:

It must be a great disappointment to you Mr. Dion that as someone who prided himself on being an arch enemy of separatism, that your final political act is to become it's lap dog. Hard to believe you are doing this. At one point these bums characterized you as a rat. That graphic of you as a rat with the long narrow nose and the rat whiskers, was plastered everywhere in Quebec. You betrayed Quebec they said. You were a rat. These creeps and and thugs even blamed you for your own father's suicide. They said he killed himself because he was ashamed of you. And now you are willing to break bread with them and break the democratic will of the Canaidian voter. And all for what? So that you can have an asterisk in the Canadian history books. You can get the get the tax payer to pay for your six month lease on 24 Sussex Drive. Is this worth it to you Mr. Dion. Is this the way you want to go out, as a dog on a leash held by Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe?

People over the years have told me that you are an honest man, a compassionate man, an earnest man. I now find it hard to think of you as a man. A man faces the voters and honours their decision. Now you have chosen to dishonour their decision, to dishonour democracy, to dishonour Canada.

Canada will survive Coupscam. I always have faith in the inherent decency of the Canadian people. But we will pay a heavy price. Our loony will get plucked. Our wealth will get plundered and at times our faith in Canada and pride in its people will be tested. But we will survive. Canada has had much tougher opponents than Jack Layton, Gilles Duceppe and Stephane Dion, the Three Stooges of Coup Scam.

Feds

And that's where I stopped. Charles Adler earns his money by puffing and blowing about <Homer-style sneer>liberals</Homer-style sneer>. The more riled up he gets you, the more money he makes.

Lets look back at some history: When Paul Martin was running a minority government, Steven Harper teamed up with the Bloc and the NDP to defeat it. Why is it wrong now that the tables have turned?

Canadians voted for a minority parliament, which means compromise is the order of the day. Harper came in and pulled the same stunts he did in the last parliament, trying to rule as if he had a majority. Well, he didn't, and that's why the opposition is looking to boot him. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

And Styx, under the green shift, no new tax would be levied on gasoline. the 40% exise tax that we already pay would just be moved to fund gas-reducing initiatives, rather than going into general revenue. Kinda like using cigarette tax to pay for healthcare rather than army boots. Idling your car under the PM's window just puts more money in his pocket.

Finally, to my western brothers & sisters: Mr. Harper had 2 opportunities to shape policy with a mostly Reform/alliance bent. All he had to do was throw a couple of bones to one of the opposition parties. Unfortunately he is too stubborn or foolish to do this, and implimented a "my way or the highway" approach. He has to share some of the blame for any isolation you may feel as a result of what is going on. Of course, being that he is an Alberta separatist, this may all be part of his plan:

ourxseven

iTrader: (1)

Feds, if you really think hard about this , doesn't it seem disasterous. Do you really think three "leaders" of TOTALLY opposite views of the world can lead us through the current critical period of leadership . ......... ?????

Also on the 2/3 , 1/3 , not entirely accurate , but nevertheless, not everyone that votes is voting for the leader . Some vote for the neighbourhood guy who is going to save the Rink , some vote beacuse they are in Quebec, some vote because they want a strong environment and union conciense in government , but not necessarily the leadership of the country.

Personally, I have voted NDP more times than anything else and have lived in the west and east for lengthy periods . So I don't have a conservative mandate nor am I a western conservative .... THIS is Just wrong . and a Coilition governement is retarded ... Wait till the next election to get a new leadership if Harper can't sail us through this current mess

Also Bullying is also part of being Boss sometimes .... especially against , periodically wild separtist views and very strong union views

Feds

I'm not saying that the coalition government is a good idea. I'm saying it is constitutional, legal, and well within the rights of the house.

The conservatives have the money right now, and they used it to convince people in the last election that Dion was a weak leader, that the economy was fine, that we wouldn't get a recession, etc. Since Dion has the sack to try this coalition, ALL of the stuff that the Conservatives ran on in the last election has been proven to be lies.

Beyond that, I find the tactics that the Conservatives are using to be dishonest, lowest-common-denominatorism, and I just want people to be aware of recent history before jumping down the throats of the opposition parties.

Also, Mr. Harper tried these bully tactics in the last session of parliament, including publishing papers on how to disrupt commitees, etc. and they didn't work. You can try and lead by the whip, but once the donkey stops walking, you need to throw it a carrot, or it will kick you in the caucus.

racerguy19

iTrader: (1)

This is not democracy, and to have these three clowns trying to run our country is absurd !!

Freds, how can you see this as a good thing ????

If you do, then YOU deserve what they do to this country !!! BUT THE REST OF US DON"T !!!

Flash

iTrader: (2)

I agree with you there. We could end up trading a PM for three jack-asses, er, I mean donkeys.

Feds

I definitely did not say that I think this is a good idea, I just take issue with people saying it is undemocratic to form a government that represents 54.4% of the popular vote. It seems to me that it is much more democratic than a government that represents 37.6% of the popular vote (these do not add up to 100, as greens and "others" took 8% http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/elections/results.html)

What I was trying to convey in my post is that if Mr. Harper had tempered his policy-making just a little bit, he could have sailed through another 18-24 months until the liberals got their poop together, been in power as the economy bounced back, claimed all the credit, and cruised to a majority. Instead, he took an opportunity to kick the opposition while they were down. And again, even the nicest dog will bite when cornered. Steven Harper is being hoisted on his own petard, and he shouldn't get a free pass for lighting said petard. Petard.

We, as Canadians, always complain that our votes don't count for anything, because of the 1st-past-the-post. Our votes do count for $1.98 of funding for the party we vote for, which helps their chances in the next election. It also keeps private interests (corporations, unions) out of the pockets of our leaders to some extent. This fiscal update tried to remove that value from our vote, and the people that are using the constitution as it is intended are being painted as the undemocratic ones. I find that strange.

Feds

That's what I was looking for:

"As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government’s program. We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority. Your attention to this matter is appreciated."

- From a letter to then-Governor General Adrienne Clarkson, which was signed by all three opposition leaders: Gilles Duceppe, Jack Layton and Stephen Harper (September 9, 2004)

Wait 4 years, strike-through "Stephen Harper", replace with "Stephane Dion", and suddenly it's the end of Canada? Can someone explain this to me?

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

It's worth pointing out regarding the Conservative's popular vote numbers in the fall election that they were only about 2% off the numbers of the last, large majority (170 seats in the House), under Chretien. So while those who voted for other parties can quibble that the majority didn't vote Conservative, rarely has it been that even large majority governments federally have a majority of the popular vote. Such is the nature of our multi-party system combined with "first-past-the-post" at the constituency level. So it's a bit disingenuous to say the Conservatives didn't represent most Canadians and shouldn't rule.

Nor is it reasonable to assert that most Canadians voted against the Conservatives. If this logic holds, about 62% voted against the Conservatives, about 74% voted against the Liberals, 82% voted against the NDP, and apparently about 90% of us voted against the Bloc, despite it being a provincial party. Ignoring the independents, Greens, and other real small vote-getters, that adds up to 62% voting against the Conservatives, versus 246% who voted against the proposed coalition, to complete the mathematically and logically challenged train of thought. Makes the Conservatives look like real winners by comparison. More relevantly, as of the most recent poll as of last Friday, about a fairly high 62% of Canadians approved of the Conservative's economic policies. Who knows where that stands now, but somehow I doubt a Dion-led coalition will fair better.

Dion, on the other hand, led his party to it's worst finish since Confederation - and he positions himself as our new leader, when his failure at the polls has already led him to announce his resignation? Even before the election, it was clear the knives were out for him in his own party - his leadership convention win up the middle never won him a lot of support within the party. I do credit him for being intelligent and thoughtful - he's much better as a member of cabinet and a policy wonk than leader, however. It is pretty clear that more Canadians than ever rejected the Liberals and Dion's platform. I have a great deal of trouble accepting leadership from a coalition of parties with dramatically different platforms, none of which garnered more than about 2/3's the popular support the Conservatives did (relative to their 37.6% polling) - the only thing linking them is left-leaning big government tendencies. Combined with a shaky coalition about the last thing we need in a time of financial and market crisis, and will likely make both Canadian and foreign investors flee in droves. Canada really has been in a better position than any other western country in the current crisis, and panicked and dramatic responses, despite the bleating of the Opposition, were not called for, but rather a calm and measured response - which the Conservatives have largely been giving us. Now, we can anticipate a lot of instability, while the NDP and Bloc will jerk the government's strings to spend on a pile of pet projects and subsidies and gifts to their constituencies that would never go ahead otherwise. But the crisis will become a lot more real within Canada, as well as the need to respond to it. A nice tautology.

Harper is certainly an ******* for trying to kneecap the other parties by pulling public funding knowing it would seriously damage them (a good idea, the idea of the funding having been to make individual and corporate donations less vital and supposedly make the parties less beholden to special interests, a mission the funding has utterly failed to achieve, but the wrong time nonetheless). I wouldn't mind seeing Harper step aside as Conservative leader and PM. He has spectacularly repeated Joe Clark's infamous mistake in '79 of "running the government as if we have a majority". What a fool.

Oh. I didn't vote for the Conservatives in the fall election, btw. And I did vote.

Leafy

Wow, how disrespectful is that? I throw out some food for thought... the least you could do is read it if you expect me to read your whole post. My man, that's called closed mindedness and it's why this mess is happening. Try to be aware of both sides of the coin, and be respectful of everyone's opinion on the matter.

Feds

Back when I had a long commute I listened to an hour of Charles Adler per day. In that year of driving, I never heard him say anything worthwhile. I am not closed-minded to counterpoints on this issue, I am definitely closed minded to Charles Adler.

Secondly, titling an article "The Three Stooges of Coupscam" shows disrespect to the Canadian Constitution, and the three party leaders, who are also duely elected representatives of their riding. As far as I can tell Mr. Adler, for all his bluster about the failure of our political system, has never so much as run for town council.

As always, I don't care where anyone sits on this issue. You get to tell each party how you feel about their conduct when the next election rolls around. I DO feel it is completely unfair for people to call this a coup or a deal with the devil when Mr. Harper pulled the exact same stunt, with the exact same people, 4 years ago.

DynoDragon

iTrader: (1)

Let me see if I got this right: The conservatives proposed some fiscal housekeeping; promised to deliver a stimulus budget in Jan when it would be clearer what the US were going to do; and proposed canceling forcing all of us to support parties we don't like. (all Canadians have to support the separatists).
And this is worth all this turmoil???

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

All you guys writing books about why this happened, when Feds hit the nail on the head.

"We, as Canadians, always complain that our votes don't count for anything, because of the 1st-past-the-post. Our votes do count for $1.98 of funding for the party we vote for, which helps their chances in the next election. It also keeps private interests (corporations, unions) out of the pockets of our leaders to some extent. This fiscal update tried to remove that value from our vote, and the people that are using the constitution as it is intended are being painted as the undemocratic ones. I find that strange."

Harper tried taking this funding away from the other parties, which basically would ruin them, resulting in blue leadership from now on. Not exactly a democracy.

The liberals, bloc, NDP, etc STOOD UP FOR US (well, for themselves - but we benefit) and THAT is why they will be governing now. They (being everyone but the tories since they raise alot of their own money) need that money to stay alive, so what were they suppossed to do?

"all canadians" don't have to support the seperatists. Only the ones that voted for them. You think those people don't pay taxes or something?

ourxseven

iTrader: (1)

Righty

iTrader: (4)

When the best choice isn't the lesser evil, I may vote. Until then, I bow my head in shame.

racerguy19

iTrader: (1)

MSN News Quote from this afternoon

"But New Democrat leader Jack Layton requested in a letter to television networks that all three opposition leaders get time on the microphone, saying the coalition is not yet official and the parties are still "distinct and functionally separate."

"We respectfully remind broadcasters that the proposed coalition is just that: a proposal to the Canadian people by two of Canada's political parties with the backing of a third," stated the letter from Layton's office.

So they are not even sure if they have a coalition and they want to run the country at a time when we need thoughtout decisions ???

jim_chung

iTrader: (2)

Feds and Terrh really have it right. We have to look at it calmly and not start ranting about three losers or three jack asses leading the country.

It is a coalition of the Liberals and the NDP, the Bloc is not part of the govt and they only promise to support the coalition in the event of a nonconfidence vote, namely in passing the throne speech and the new budget. Since the Bloc has absolutely no say in what goes in the Throne speech or Budget as neither has been written there really is no need to fear that somehow we have sold out to the Separatists. I think Duceppe feels a nonHarper govt would simply be better for his province and after the poor Conservative election performance in Quebec he might expect a Harper backlash. Why do you think there is no support for the auto industry in Ontario and no support for ailing Toronto especially?

In terms of the democratic spirit, Harper intends to ask the GG to suspend Parliament until late January in order to delay the nonconfidence vote. How is that democratic, usurping the mandate to govern for merely personal gain?

squealy

iTrader: (12)

No... they are not sure that they have a coalition because it has to be decided by the governor general. She has three choices. She will either allow the coalition government to go forward, or suspend parliament until the next session in the hopes that the MP's will have calmed down, or it will be put to another federal election.

I don't like the idea of the coalition government, but really, turnaround is fair play. Harper did it in 2004, but when the liberals do it, all of a sudden it signals the end of democracy in canada? the liberals have hijacked the election? People probably wouldn't care so much if the economic situation was not in the *******.

The reasons being given by the coalition make sense, although i'm sure that it's more about cutting public party funding than it is about the lack of stimulus in the budget update. The budget was just the excuse. I think this is the big bitchslap that Harper needed. You don't beat on a wounded animal, which is essentially what he was doing to the Liberal party. While I don't like the idea of a coalition government with the Bloc, they are actually protecting democracy by doing what they are doing, not destroying it.

squealy

iTrader: (12)

jim beat me to it. well said.

Craiger

iTrader: (1)

Who said a few weeks ago that the Canadian forum was dull...?

Anyway, I have read about 50% of this thread, and i like to be able to think from both sides of the coin.

The BS about making deals with the devil and supposring socialist governments that the conservatives are trying to market is exactly that... BS. Hell... look at how well that worked for McCain in the US election a few weeks ago... not good. The conservatives dug their own grave, and now they need to lay down.

Stephan Dion was unable to prove he is a good leader in the last federal election, he has been unable to prove he is a good leader since the election, and even in his address today he was still unable to prove this as well. Not only was he late delivering his speach, but he messed it up multiple times, and it looked like it was recorded on a handycam. C'mon guy's, get your act's together.

Jack Layton could probably be a decient leader if he wasn't so narrow minded about taxing the hell out of business and refunding it to the working class. I sympathise with thoes in the working class, but i have been there done that. Does Layton not realise that if you take money from the businesses than they will have to cut job's? How are corporations going to creat jobs for him if they have no money to pay the new employees? WAKE UP!!!

The bloc is no different than the green party or the marijunna party... except that they actually get voted in to office (in Quebec). They all have a single goal, and if they ever do get power then they will do the one thing that they want and then be left scratching their asses because they don't know what to do. They are there for self realization... and they are a waste of tax payer money.

Honestly, i'm very split on what is going on in Ottawa right now. And by split, I mean I can't decide what will be worse for the economy... the constant denile from the consertives that there actually is a problem or the incredably stupid political turmoile that the other parties are causing. I agree that this is political opertunist at it's worst, using the economy as justification; but either way the economy, and the people of Canada, will be the ones who suffer.

So right now it looks like we have to decide whether to shoot ourselves in the right foot or the left foot.

Craig