hydrogen-powered Rotary Engine
02-24-06, 08:35 AM
#26
Engine, Not Motor
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Originally Posted by coldfire
02-27-06, 11:05 AM
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I may as well add my 2 cents...
Agreed... A fuel by definition must be combustable. People would be up in arms over the safety of petroleum if it were a new technology.
I disagree. Even in Alberta there are threats of rolling brownouts in the summer, and much of the U.S. including California currently suffers from a power shortage. We would need massive amounts of additional electrical capacity to even consider using it for personal transportation as well. The energy capacity just currently isn't there, and whether it can be provided as cheap as fossil fuel per km is also a major consideration.
Yup, that's dead-on IMO.
Hmmm... Actually Ethanol takes more fossil fuels to produce (tractors, fertilizer, transport, etc) than it saves in emmissions so it's not the answer at all. Ethanol is really just the result of massive corn overproduction in the US; the whole industry is essentially a farmer's subsidy.
Originally Posted by C-Murder
The internal temps of a hydrogen fueled car are not as high as gasoline, the only major difference you would have to worry about is how quickly the hydrogen combusts. I hope this clarifies some of your worries about hydrogen. It is not more dangerous that gasoline, just different.
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
Frankly I don't understand what the hydrogen hype is. The electrical infrastructure is already here, the technology for high performance long range EVs has existed for years, and you can make electricity very cleanly. We could be driving zero emission 400 mile range high performance EVs tomorrow if just half the money wasted on hydrogen was redirected.
Originally Posted by Mr. Eccentric
I don't understand what hydrogen electric hype is, but I completely understand the allure of hydrogen combustion. I think what Mazda and BMW have done in sticking to the possibility of straight hydrogen is highly commendable. The fact is, what enthusiast is going to want to give up the visceral attributes of internal combustion in favour of the whizz of an EZ-Go golf cart? If the end result is no emissions either way, I think the promise of hydrogen combustion is much more desirable.
Without a breakthrough in processing to separate hydrogen there is an obvious barrier to progress, but I think electric technology is in need of a breakthrough of equal magnitute to make it feasible as well. A few electric cars in society is fine, but what happens when everyone has to plug their car in at night? Most of the electricity in NA is coal generated as it is; and that's one of our largest sources of pollutants.
Without a breakthrough in processing to separate hydrogen there is an obvious barrier to progress, but I think electric technology is in need of a breakthrough of equal magnitute to make it feasible as well. A few electric cars in society is fine, but what happens when everyone has to plug their car in at night? Most of the electricity in NA is coal generated as it is; and that's one of our largest sources of pollutants.
Originally Posted by 12RotorMonster
E85 Ethanol is much more feasable (not to mention practical)
02-27-06, 03:21 PM
#29
Engine, Not Motor
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Originally Posted by mr.zoom
I posted the same thing on the RX8club forum. I must say, different crowd all together.
I'm just glad that people here are interested in the rotary's future..
I'm just glad that people here are interested in the rotary's future..
Originally Posted by Felgar
I disagree. Even in Alberta there are threats of rolling brownouts in the summer, and much of the U.S. including California currently suffers from a power shortage. We would need massive amounts of additional electrical capacity to even consider using it for personal transportation as well. The energy capacity just currently isn't there, and whether it can be provided as cheap as fossil fuel per km is also a major consideration.
I also received a pamphlet last week in the mail that broke down Ontario's power sources. It was something like 50% nuclear, 25% renewable 15% gas and the remaining was coal. That's a pretty bright future as far as clean EVs goes...
02-27-06, 04:07 PM
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10% from coal? that is a pretty low number, i didn't know it was cut back that much.
coal plants actually burn much cleaner today than previously. nuclear all the way though
now they just have to get fusion going....mmmm
coal plants actually burn much cleaner today than previously. nuclear all the way though
now they just have to get fusion going....mmmm
02-27-06, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
What was the reaction there?
I also received a pamphlet last week in the mail that broke down Ontario's power sources. It was something like 50% nuclear, 25% renewable 15% gas and the remaining was coal. That's a pretty bright future as far as clean EVs goes...
I also received a pamphlet last week in the mail that broke down Ontario's power sources. It was something like 50% nuclear, 25% renewable 15% gas and the remaining was coal. That's a pretty bright future as far as clean EVs goes...
The other thing is charging time. I forgot to even get into that aspect earlier. Realistically, if your car is running low on fuel you simply get more, the whole process takes probably less than two minutes. If you are running out of charge you can't just stop briefly and be on your way. What happens when you get stranded, do you knock on someone's door and barter the rights to utilize their outlet then ask if they mind you staying the night as your car charges? And ,to a lesser degree, what happens when there's a power outage at night? Chunks of cities would be housebound.
RX-8 forum; I'm curious about the reaction as well. I've noticed a general malaise on that forum though... they all seemingly want to talk about who squeaked out an extra nickel off the sticker price over participating in interesting discussions.
02-28-06, 09:38 AM
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Charging is something that a lot of people don't understand, and I guess rightly so because we've all been brought up to believe that it takes forever to charge batteries.
In general, you can charge a battery as fast as you want as long as you manage heat. The EV drag racers are charging up 50AH lead packs in a matter of minutes. Li-Ions can be charged just as quickly if heat is managed (and that's a big deal with Lithium batteries because they WILL explode if overcharged). All the current hybrids use NiMh packs that are charged from 20% to about 80% in minutes all the time.
As for power outages...yeah, that would suck. But how often does the power go out for an entire night really? The big outage two years ago was one of only two I can remember...And to make things more interesting, if we are all driving EVs with big battery packs and inverters for their AC motors, there's no reason that an EV can't feed power back into the grid when it needs it...talk about load levelling!
In general, you can charge a battery as fast as you want as long as you manage heat. The EV drag racers are charging up 50AH lead packs in a matter of minutes. Li-Ions can be charged just as quickly if heat is managed (and that's a big deal with Lithium batteries because they WILL explode if overcharged). All the current hybrids use NiMh packs that are charged from 20% to about 80% in minutes all the time.
As for power outages...yeah, that would suck. But how often does the power go out for an entire night really? The big outage two years ago was one of only two I can remember...And to make things more interesting, if we are all driving EVs with big battery packs and inverters for their AC motors, there's no reason that an EV can't feed power back into the grid when it needs it...talk about load levelling!
02-28-06, 11:29 AM
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I see the point about night charging, not that I necessarily agree with the conclusion that it would handle such an enormous increase in demand.
According to wikipedia, a reasonable average EV efficiency is 3 miles per kWh, which equates to 2 cents per mile at the current cost of electricity. With an 80 cents / litre cost of gas, we get $3.20 per gallon. So in a 30 mpg car, 10 cents per mile vs. approx 2 cents makes EV's seem economically pretty decent...
According to wikipedia, a reasonable average EV efficiency is 3 miles per kWh, which equates to 2 cents per mile at the current cost of electricity. With an 80 cents / litre cost of gas, we get $3.20 per gallon. So in a 30 mpg car, 10 cents per mile vs. approx 2 cents makes EV's seem economically pretty decent...
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