Jose A.

iTrader: (40)

Version B for sure!!!

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

Yeah. B is better. Looks like tcp magic style

Kiku

iTrader: (4)

sell me your kais benny then buy some of the UDC Kais

David Hayes

iTrader: (6)

B FTW. I'd recommend round out the front corner (the lowest part to the wheels) of the side skirt. Think of water flowing over the pieces like Mazda did

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

Thanks for the opinions guys! I'm leaning towards Version B...


meanwhile... working hard to get ready for dgrr!!!

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

few more pics


Interiors not any better either.....



andddddd the abomination of my garage due to various projects, too many tools/machinery, and not enough space...

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

Ohhh i love it when a non-thought out plan works perfectly like i had planned it all along! step 2 of 3 for front fenders!


Teaser............ because im trying to hold off the unveil for DGRR.. well see if i can keep it secret that long..


Friday= Garbage day aka time to tidy the garage up a bit.....




MAN does that feel better. this tiny cramped garage is getting old real fast.. im hoping to move into a 2000sq ft garage by the end of the year... hopefully it will be a good year.......................!

TwinCharged RX7

iTrader: (14)

i hope your secret isn't going to be flinstone power haha.

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

loololol nah lets hope not. the only thing that i will touch that could possibly cause it not to run is the wiring.. and i havent decided if i was going to tackle that before or after DGRR... are you goin collin?

mofo_aka

iTrader: (4)

nice work dude. can't wait to see finish product.

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

^^Thanks good sir.

Tomorrows project.. should be playing around with these..........


And i just realized the burnout flares i was using in my kit werent identical....... so i just made the mold for the other side... should be getting to the passenger side this week...!

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

shes starting to have a nice little rumpppppp

Bubble Tech

iTrader: (4)

So i thought id throw a mini tutorial in how i made my fenders... I adapted all the usual methods to build sub boxes into the fender making method..

I already had over fenders that i used for the "Base" of my fender flare

first align and hot glue the flare on to the oem fender (mines cut)


I added dowels for support and to make it more rigid




next i took batting/fleece material and stretched it around the whole fender, this creates a MUCH more symmetrical part then me bondo-ing/ filling the gaps with foam. also helps have a nice smooth blend into the fender


the fabrics held on by clamps



I then used an infusion resin since the viscosity is much thinner which helps saturate the fabric faster- its more expensive so i only used it on the edges- general purpose resin will work fine too



then saturate the rest of the fabric with resing, let it cure then lay up fiberglass!

theres the basics to get your shape of your fender


on a side note, aka new project, since no one wanted to sell me a spoiler for DDGR without paying an arm and a leg i decided to make my own.......... Should be interesting and fun as i've NEVER made a spoiler and making up the process as i go haha just winging it' Get it?

Supernaut

iTrader: (83)

Very cool man

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

great Job Benny

TougeSpirit

iTrader: (12)

Wow great work and this just shows how much thought and effort goes into your work and products. If only I had the room and skills to do the body work you can. Keep it up I'm still following! On a side note, is there a chance you will be doing another run of t shirts or coming out with some more unique stuff - it is 2013 after all.

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

thanks doll hows the 14? do u know if youre gonna go down to DGRR yet?

Thanks, just taking some notes from you Do you remember the time i PM'd you like 4 years ago asking about the apoxie sculpt you used on your spoiler? lolol

Thanks Man, I am by no means a body work guy.. I can get by but still tons to learn! You never have enough room lol, with these cars its soo easy to out grow the space.. Hopefully i can get into a full size shop for 2014......

As for tshirts- another run as in reprints? if so not likely. I have some designs lined up for our 2014 line, only one rotary specific shirt but another 3-4 designs that should be pretty awesome! thats planned to be release May 11 @ the Springfest event in VA. I'll be vendoring so come on by!

Springfest 4

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

Lol thanks, although im not sure if its determination or stupidity ahahha...

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

Ohhh theyre finally beginning to look like fenders... Trimmed them down today and they actually dont fit THAT bad! now the fun of sanding and shaping them...


Rear fenders are just sitting. I should have the rivnuts in tomorrow so i can bolt the rears back up, trim them (still have to figure out where i want the trim line to be) and body fill those..

onnn a side note, slowly collecting the most important pieces of the puzzle...
roof rack

Check

Spoiler (in the works)

Check

Cargo box- picking up saturday (as long as CL add person doesnt flake)
This should be the icing on the cake! How will I bring all the stuff for DGRR? Trailer? Nope. WE DONT NEED NO STINKING TRAILER!

=)

theorie

iTrader: (31)

I'm interested to see how your wing actually performs...

Designing a true 3D airfoil is not a simple task. You can't simply design an airfoil based on the thinking that, "Well, it looks like one, so it should work."

e.g. look at these variations in airfoil shapes: Wing Design - CONVENTIONAL AIRFOILS and LAMINAR FLOW AIRFOILS

Obviously with a car spoiler the shapes are upside-down (compared to an airplane wing), since we want force applied in the opposite direction... lol

I have the APR wing and after examining it, the profile-shape of the wing significantly changes as you move from the center of the wing out to the tips. The center section is a "Deep Camber" (flat U-shape)shape, and at the horizonal mounting position (0-degrees level), the front edge and rear edge of the flat U-shape sit equidistant from the ground. As you move outward from the center of the wing, the shape shifts, and the outer tip section is more of a flat shape with about 15-degrees of downward angle.

Mounted at "0-degrees flat" angle.:
Center:

Outer tips:


Furthermore, the shape is clearly different from center to outer tip. Here is the center cross-section profile:


Now compare that to the cross-section profile of the outer tip:


^ As you can see the profile changes dramatically - the inner section has the "fatter" edge on the trailing side, where as the outer tip section has the "fatter" edge on the leading side. The shape and transition of these cross-section shapes are what reduce drag and optimize the downforce generated by the airfoil.

I'm all for "cardboard engineering" but as far as I know, you can't design an optimized, or even functional, 3-dimensional airfoil by simply cutting up cardboard as a mockup and making a shape that "looks like" a professionally designed airfoil.

Look at all the testing and analysis that went into APRs designs:
APR Performance - GTC-300 - CFD Data & Analysis

You might make something that creates downforce at lower speeds due to the simple fact that an downward-angled flat surface in an airstream will create downforce - but you're likely going to end up with an airfoil that either creates too much downforce at low speeds and way too much at high speeds. Either way you're adding drag and slowing down your car.

Your wing appears to have the center "flat U-shape" (roughly) but the outer tips of the wing are nearly flat relative to the center. Also I'm wondering if your airfoil is truly an airfoil (similar to the shapes discussed on that first link I posted) or if it just looks like one. Compared to the APR GTC-300 wing, you wing looks like it won't generate much downforce unless you have it angled at a very aggressive angle (which will create a ton of drag, slow your car, and put a ton of strain on the mounts at higher speeds).
Just my thoughts. Not saying you can't do it, just saying it's a lot more complicated than just making something that resembles a 3D airfoil...

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

ohhhh where to start lol...

You and me both lol.


Yes i know. i know nothing about aero dynamics, I couldnt get a wing in time for DGRR (in my price range) so i said why the hell not try making one. how hard could it be.... not too hard. but its function? welllllllllllllll we'll see lol

Yeah i saw that when you posted it on fb? scared the **** outta me that i was doing it wrong.... but i spoke with one of my friends who went to automotive school and took a aerodynamics course and said it will work.

My wing design doesnt change significantly, I was straying away from that type of design. My center does have a very "deep camber" if i understand what youre referring to. it probably will collect pools of water when it rains lol...

I'm steering more in the direction of "flatter" wings... Some of the styles I'm basing my wing off of:






Correct, i think that is just a different style wing, other wings i've looked at seem to have similar AOA. from my understanding, this is designed for lower speeds..

My wing roughly is set up with an 18*AOA in the center and a 0* AOA on the sides. from what I'm told "an ideal foil type wing is 0* on ends and up to 25* center for high speed time attack." which my wing luckily falls under. if it works, only a few more weeks til we find out lol...

On a side note, I believe kognitions wing is 20* AOA all the way across, so i cant see my spoiler having anymore drag then kognitions.

I',m going to have to disagree with you on this one.. i dont think the profiles are that dramatically off. i think its based on the same air foil design and skewed, scaled and tweaked...

I understand. I am not APR, I am not "wind tunnel" testing it or anything fancy. Im not some aerodynamics. I'm a guy who loves building ANYTHING, and in need of a spoiler CHEAP, FAST and doesnt look like pooh. I need this for DGRR to completely the look of the exterior of the car, and I will be using the spoiler as a rear mounting point to carry my cargo box to NC.

I understand your terminology of "cardboard engineering" and most of my stuff appears to look like that but i can assure you I'm not as dumb as i portray myself lol. I learn very fast and have various skills that i adapted into designing and building things.. I can assure you the methods i've used are a little more advanced then "cardboard engineering" I just dont show all the leg work, thought process or research i do behind the scenes.

Just to clarify, I did not just pull a shape out of my *** and to make it what "appears" to look like a wing lol.. It is actually based off of a air foil design, and then i modified it.


If thats the case, I am fine with it... I'm not racing for championships, and i dont need the most aerodynamic spoiler in the world, nor am i trying to innovate a new design. simply i am designing for my needs.

Again- i believe its just a different style. Not intended to be offensive but do you understand aerodynamics? From this post it seems like everything you are saying/reffering to is biased to the APR GTC300..

What do you consider a aggressive angle? reffering back to kognition, i believe there AOA is 20* so i am not far off, I cant see my 18* Center AOA having more drag then kognitions 20* AOA full deck. Mounts will be secured to the chassis btw (or at least that is the plan)

I know its complicated, i oringinally started off with a straight deck and HATED how it looked, thats when i started getting more involved with the 3d designs... If it even works SLIGHTY, how are you gonna call it something that "resembles" an air foil. I know it will work, how well? that will be TBD....

But on a side note, what are you really making all these assessments on? I havent revealed any pictures that indicate the design at all. the closes picture Is the deck with a layer of Fiberglass loosely draped over it... so you cant see any of the contours lol...

hope i didnt come off as a dick, if so, not intended to at all... but your last statement "resembles" did hurt my feelings a little bit....
But good debate/discussion!

JhnRx7

iTrader: (12)

In the spirit of a good debate...

Do you care to share some of the calculations you made behind the scenes or maybe a sample calculation? As tom said, there is more to designing a wing then finding profiles and replicating them.

Any CFD analysis done after you modified the shape? Changing the shape of an engineered profile just a little bit significantly affects the performance of the aerofoil.

Again, Tom is right on here... it is possible to create too much downforce/drag. Have you done load testing on your composites? What process are you using? vacuum infusion? curing in an autoclave? what about a core material?

Honestly I would not want to be driving behind you on the highway if this has not been thoroughly engineered with a large factor of safety built in. What could happen, is that by modifying the aerofoil shape without any legitimate design process then it could create a significant amount of downforce AND drag resulting in a very high load on the mounting points resulting in failure.

For what its worth, I am a mechanical engineer. I have taken an aerodynamics class back in school and MANY fluid dynamics classes...

theorie

iTrader: (31)

If you wanted something that looks like a wing, but probably doesn't function, you could have bought a 3D wing, with mounts, off eBay for $250 - $350. I'm sure you're spending at least that in various materials. Even if you're not spending that much, the TIME you're spending to build a non-functional wing (i.e. failed expiriment)...well, you could have used that time on finishing up other projects that you've started and need to "finish in time for DGRR". No offense...I just know you have a lot of projects on your plate, and time is valuable.

He can tell that by looking at an unfinished and untested cardboard mock-up? Once again, no offense, but your friend is not a credible authority because he "took one 'aerodynamics' class in trade school" and saw a cardboard skeleton.

Again, it's not just about having "something that looks like a similar shape"....

So your plans are to build a wing for driving around the neighborhood? What happens when you get on the highway?

This is exactly the opposite of what I was pointing out about the APR wing.

You can't measure drag by simply looking at "angle of attack" on a wing. Drag depends on shape. A 67" x 12" piece of plywood angled at 15degrees is going to create a completely different amount of drag than a 3D-CAD-designed-speed-optimized-composite-airfoil at 15degrees.

I'll point you to JhnRx7's post on this one.

Like I said before, buy an eBay spoiler...or don't put a spoiler on your car...?

Wait, so what is your goal: building a wing to improving handling? or building something that looks like a wing but is really part of a luggage rack?

Also, how much **** are you planning on bringing to DGRR - a 3 day event...I've been to DGRR a number of times, and every time I drove down in an RX-7 and had PLENTY of space to bring luggage, camera gear, food/drinks, stuff for pranks...lol

"Cardboard Engineering" was not mean't as an insult. I use cardboard to mock up things all the time - brackets, panels, etc. The problem is, "cardboard engineering" just doesn't work for certain things, like complex-shaped airfoils.

So you're just trying to copy a wing? Why not just make a mold and clone it? Or why waste your time at all. You're not "engineering" at this point, you're just trying to make copies.

No, but you shouldn't put a wing on your street car that's going to collapse at 70mph on the highway, fly off, crash though someones windshield and cause an accident.

No bias. I'm simply using a professionally-designed, tried-and-true example as a basis of comparison.

Once again, "aggressiveness" is determined by shape, so this question is irrelevant.

There's nothing wrong with a "flat deck" wing. Cars that run a "flat deck" wing: Rolex Grand-AM, ALMS, Indy Car, etc.

Pretend you're driving, and you stick your hand out the window, flat to the ground. If you turn the front edge of your hand toward the ground, the air will push your hand down, and if you turn the front edge of your hand up, it will lift your hand up. Yes, aerodynamics will put force on your hand depending on the "angle of attack", however YOUR HAND IS NOT AN AIRFOIL.

I'm not an engineer. However I have gone though flight school to get my pilot's license, and part of flight school focuses on aerodynamics and principles of flight. Looking at different types of airfoils and how they generate lift, what types of airfoils (wings) are designed for different types of aircraft, etc.

No worries man, I wasn't trying to come of as a dick either. Just sharing my opinions based on what I know about this...

muibubbles

iTrader: (36)

Because buying "ebay brand parts" where there is no relationship from the seller to the part is sketchy. the largest one they have is 62" and will look tiny with my wider fenders. you learn from mistakes. Like i said i like building things, I've learned a lot from this project and have a few more skills under my belt now. I enjoy learning and building. Yes my time is valuable but this is one of the items i find essential to get me to DGRR. I wouldnt gamble 250-350 on a wing i dont want....


Interesting how youre saying that when you've made all these assessments from "teaser pics" that just show the outline of the spoiler, yet I've shown him detail pics...... how does that make sense that all your previous post have more credibility then his?

What makes you so credible? I dont know why you keep referring to a cardboard skeleton...... No cardboard was ever used in the wing.... nor have you even seen how it was made......

I have no idea, which is why i said TBD.

ok now youre not even reading post. i am designing a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPOILER DESIGN FROM APRS. like i have posted above. APR's style wing is NOT the only type of wing ever invented.


Yes i know. but given my wing is not a flat 67"x12" ply wood and is relatively an aerodynamic shape, i neglected that obvious. you kept referring to how aggressive the AOA is and all, so i was just curious to what YOU though was "really aggressive"



a lot. I'm a vendor so I'm bringing products.


once again, no cardboard was ever used.

I dont believe in stealing other peoples work. I'm not cloning someone else work. I see what i like and design it to my specifications.

and what makes you think this is going to break? yet youre telling me to buy a sketchy ebay wing. i can build a much stronger and more durable wing then some made in china part.

APR is not the only company in the world that makes a wing. and i am NOT even making the same style wing as apr.........

never said there was. I hated the way the one i made look. certain cars can pull it off, some cant. its taste and preference


obviously because its your hand. if youre designing a chair, and u sit on it and it breaks, is it not a chair? no its just a shitty chair.


Cool, but just because you have gone to a "flight school" and had a "class" on aerodynamics doesnt make you a credible authority.


Now youre coming off as a dick.