Xcessive Intake Manifold
04-05-10, 07:42 PM
#4
Using bungs on the LIM for AI makes me wonder if there would be enough contact time for the water/meth to absorb charge heat as effectively as if it introduced up-stream further.
And since there would be one injector for each rotor, what would happen if one injector failed for any reason while the engine was under heavy load/high boost?
And since there would be one injector for each rotor, what would happen if one injector failed for any reason while the engine was under heavy load/high boost?
04-06-10, 12:41 AM
#5
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Using bungs on the LIM for AI makes me wonder if there would be enough contact time for the water/meth to absorb charge heat as effectively as if it introduced up-stream further.
And since there would be one injector for each rotor, what would happen if one injector failed for any reason while the engine was under heavy load/high boost?
And since there would be one injector for each rotor, what would happen if one injector failed for any reason while the engine was under heavy load/high boost?
i do have the xsessive LIM and will be running all injecto bungs fuel about 5100cc worth after all is said and done. but for the direct port injection im working on adding a aquamist HSF-3 with 4nozzles run of the HSV that mimics inj duty cycle look into it. but ill be running the nozzles 1 pre-turbo 1 post intercooler and 2 hopefully in the secondary runners on the UIM to make sure at least a portion hits both chambers. iv just been lazy and havent made a tank and installed it yet.
just some tings to think about.
z
04-06-10, 12:00 PM
#7
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i dont follow. what questions? and hell if nobody questioned current 'wisdom' we would never have alot of theings we have today...
but its been proven time and again if your AI injection fails and your tunned for it you will most likely blow your motor because either your running leaner to take advantage of it or your running out of your detination threshhold for that particular fuel alone without AI. so if a water injector fails without failsafe plan it will run lean detonating just like if your fuel injector fails so does this mean your not going to run your car for fear of a fuel injector failure?
z
but its been proven time and again if your AI injection fails and your tunned for it you will most likely blow your motor because either your running leaner to take advantage of it or your running out of your detination threshhold for that particular fuel alone without AI. so if a water injector fails without failsafe plan it will run lean detonating just like if your fuel injector fails so does this mean your not going to run your car for fear of a fuel injector failure?
z
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04-06-10, 12:27 PM
#8
It may not have an ideal amount of time to flash and cool the intake charge, but it would certainly still provide a tonne of benefits when it hits the combustion chamber. Charge cooling is only a small part of the AI benefit. My water injection doesn't cool the intake charge much................. but it completely eliminates knock. As far as one failing.....same as a fuel injector presuming you're actually using real injectors and a fuel pump to deliver it. The same failure could happen in a typical pump/nozzle setup if the pump dies....or the line springs a leak....or you run out of meth. However the probablility of any of those happening is low. The idea is to mitigate and minimize risk, and adding a good AI system - although it is possible it will fail (as with anything!) - you are mitigating the risk of a bad tank of gas blowing your engine, or near-the-strength-limit-of-apex-seal detonation slowly breaking apart your engine which in my books is a good trade off.
But the suggested layout would be difficult to fab a rail for in the excesssive manifold given that the bungs are setup to share a rail you'd have awfully tight lines at the end of each rail.
But it could certainly be made to work. It may not be 100% ideal but its 1000% better then not having it on the rotary at all.
But the suggested layout would be difficult to fab a rail for in the excesssive manifold given that the bungs are setup to share a rail you'd have awfully tight lines at the end of each rail.
But it could certainly be made to work. It may not be 100% ideal but its 1000% better then not having it on the rotary at all.
04-06-10, 03:54 PM
#9
These questions:
And he answered them...
I understand not tuning to it. My car isn't as heavily modded as some and the system I'm comtemplating will be simple and intended to only to reduce knock and increase cooling.
And I agree that adding water that close to combustion will certainly have benefits. But it's at the opposite end of the spectrum of the pre-turbo advocates and even pre-intercooler advocates. That's what started me thinking out loud I guess.
Using bungs on the LIM for AI makes me wonder if there would be enough contact time for the water/meth to absorb charge heat as effectively as if it introduced up-stream further.
And since there would be one injector for each rotor, what would happen if one injector failed for any reason while the engine was under heavy load/high boost?
And since there would be one injector for each rotor, what would happen if one injector failed for any reason while the engine was under heavy load/high boost?
It may not have an ideal amount of time to flash and cool the intake charge, but it would certainly still provide a tonne of benefits when it hits the combustion chamber. Charge cooling is only a small part of the AI benefit. My water injection doesn't cool the intake charge much................. but it completely eliminates knock. As far as one failing.....same as a fuel injector presuming you're actually using real injectors and a fuel pump to deliver it. The same failure could happen in a typical pump/nozzle setup if the pump dies....or the line springs a leak....or you run out of meth. However the probablility of any of those happening is low. The idea is to mitigate and minimize risk, and adding a good AI system - although it is possible it will fail (as with anything!) - you are mitigating the risk of a bad tank of gas blowing your engine, or near-the-strength-limit-of-apex-seal detonation slowly breaking apart your engine which in my books is a good trade off.
But the suggested layout would be difficult to fab a rail for in the excesssive manifold given that the bungs are setup to share a rail you'd have awfully tight lines at the end of each rail.
But it could certainly be made to work. It may not be 100% ideal but its 1000% better then not having it on the rotary at all.
But the suggested layout would be difficult to fab a rail for in the excesssive manifold given that the bungs are setup to share a rail you'd have awfully tight lines at the end of each rail.
But it could certainly be made to work. It may not be 100% ideal but its 1000% better then not having it on the rotary at all.
And I agree that adding water that close to combustion will certainly have benefits. But it's at the opposite end of the spectrum of the pre-turbo advocates and even pre-intercooler advocates. That's what started me thinking out loud I guess.
04-06-10, 04:12 PM
#10
I understand not tuning to it. My car isn't as heavily modded as some and the system I'm comtemplating will be simple and intended to only to reduce knock and increase cooling.
And I agree that adding water that close to combustion will certainly have benefits. But it's at the opposite end of the spectrum of the pre-turbo advocates and even pre-intercooler advocates. That's what started me thinking out loud I guess.
And I agree that adding water that close to combustion will certainly have benefits. But it's at the opposite end of the spectrum of the pre-turbo advocates and even pre-intercooler advocates. That's what started me thinking out loud I guess.
However keep in mind that all the other benefits of doing it further up stream like charge cooling, or for pre-turbo changing turbo effciency, are all in addition to the fact that its getting run through the engine and reducing knock in the chamber. That is the crux of using it and no matter where you spray it pretty much - you WILL see that benefit. And its much a much more beneficial slice of the pie then any of the other added upsides themselves.
But you're certainly right that he would gain a cooler charge or at least more chance for the fluid to pull out heat by moving them upstream.
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