Water vs Methanol - RWHP Info
05-30-09 | 12:09 AM
#27
I'm at 20 psi with preturbo water and no knock. I plan to go a few more psi soon. Maybe with a max of around 25 psi. Based on the results i've been having, i think 26 psi is quite attainable for a daily driven car on pump gas.
05-30-09 | 09:27 AM
#28
Performance Veteran...
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 146
Likes: 5
From: MD/VA/DC metro area...
05-30-09 | 10:06 AM
#29
to viper gtsr
26psi can be done with water injection.
The best off the shelf kit i have seen that dosnt need much tweaking is the Rice Racing kit. I know much people dont like him. but his wi kit is good.
the coolingmist kits are great. But you need to know what your doing to get them to work.
If your using coolingmist kit.
Get a 750 or 900cc jet.
Youll find it will want around 700cc of water around that boost without loosing too much hp but your egts will be good and knock levels will be excellent.
26psi can be done with water injection.
The best off the shelf kit i have seen that dosnt need much tweaking is the Rice Racing kit. I know much people dont like him. but his wi kit is good.
the coolingmist kits are great. But you need to know what your doing to get them to work.
If your using coolingmist kit.
Get a 750 or 900cc jet.
Youll find it will want around 700cc of water around that boost without loosing too much hp but your egts will be good and knock levels will be excellent.
05-30-09 | 10:31 AM
#30
Performance Veteran...
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 146
Likes: 5
From: MD/VA/DC metro area...
to viper gtsr
26psi can be done with water injection.
The best off the shelf kit i have seen that dosnt need much tweaking is the Rice Racing kit. I know much people dont like him. but his wi kit is good.
the coolingmist kits are great. But you need to know what your doing to get them to work.
If your using coolingmist kit.
Get a 750 or 900cc jet.
Youll find it will want around 700cc of water around that boost without loosing too much hp but your egts will be good and knock levels will be excellent.
26psi can be done with water injection.
The best off the shelf kit i have seen that dosnt need much tweaking is the Rice Racing kit. I know much people dont like him. but his wi kit is good.
the coolingmist kits are great. But you need to know what your doing to get them to work.
If your using coolingmist kit.
Get a 750 or 900cc jet.
Youll find it will want around 700cc of water around that boost without loosing too much hp but your egts will be good and knock levels will be excellent.
PS; goal is for this vehicle will be daily driven @20+lbs with race boost set to 26lbs* (all on 93oct.)
05-30-09 | 11:53 AM
#31
BDC Motorsports
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 6
From: Grand Prairie, TX
Ya know, I was thinkin' last night, once I get my setup rebuilt on my Turbo II I am considering doing back-to-back test at (x) boost with 100% alcohol and 50/50 to see the changes in AFR's and EGT's.
B
B
05-30-09 | 12:05 PM
#32
BDC Motorsports
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 6
From: Grand Prairie, TX
If your running e85.
Water will come into play around 35+psi.
I have tuned a car to 45psi with e85.
And over 35psi knock got a little out of control.
We setup a small water injection system on their with a 550cc jet and were able to bring the knock right back with around 5hp loss on 35psi.
But remember. the above is only a small amount of water for the volume of e85 going through. But it did the trick.
For anything under 30psi. Adding AI with e85 is a waste of time.
Pump fuel is a completely different story.
I would like to know. When people are installing AI what are they looking to reduce?
EGTs? or knock?
When i do it. I looking to reduce knock mostly. EGTs to come down. BUT KNOCK is what kills engines.
You can have low egts such 1500F and still blow an engine to bits.
Water will come into play around 35+psi.
I have tuned a car to 45psi with e85.
And over 35psi knock got a little out of control.
We setup a small water injection system on their with a 550cc jet and were able to bring the knock right back with around 5hp loss on 35psi.
But remember. the above is only a small amount of water for the volume of e85 going through. But it did the trick.
For anything under 30psi. Adding AI with e85 is a waste of time.
Pump fuel is a completely different story.
I would like to know. When people are installing AI what are they looking to reduce?
EGTs? or knock?
When i do it. I looking to reduce knock mostly. EGTs to come down. BUT KNOCK is what kills engines.
You can have low egts such 1500F and still blow an engine to bits.
And if your adding water to your enigne and your loosing 20+hp. Your ignition is **** or your simply adding too much water.
And lots of the ignition systems people are using are crappy.
And lots of the ignition systems people are using are crappy.
05-30-09 | 12:18 PM
#33
I'm using an air atomizing nozzle on a mechanical setup similar to rice racing's kit. I drilled it out to flow 500cc at 20 psi. At higher psi's it flows more. I'm running a masterpower t70 with large street port, twin power, stock coils, and greddy race plugs. No dyno numbers yet as its all street tuned, but i'm guessing close to 500.
05-30-09 | 06:45 PM
#34
Viper gtsr
i have had great success with the CRane cdi hi-6 with lx92 coil packs. You buy 2 sets of boxes and coils and run them direct fire on L1 and L2.
BDC.
I am not mech engineer so i dont know the exact science as to why engines can run cool inside and still grenade them selves. The only thing that makes sense in my mind, is the high boost on low octane fuel causes heat spots in the combustion chamber which EGT dosnt pick up, and these heat spots are what cause pre ignition. Again in this regard i could completely be wrong.
But one thing i am certain of. When we first start playing wi, had a few cars that lost their wi while racing, and very very very quickly destroyed engine, and after checking logs, EGTs were under 1650F and afrs were in the high 10s. when we initially looked it we were shocked, and couldnt figure it out, around 10 minutes later i noticed the eboost had lost its map signal line and this is what we were using to trigger wi.
I hope that makes sense.
i have had great success with the CRane cdi hi-6 with lx92 coil packs. You buy 2 sets of boxes and coils and run them direct fire on L1 and L2.
BDC.
I am not mech engineer so i dont know the exact science as to why engines can run cool inside and still grenade them selves. The only thing that makes sense in my mind, is the high boost on low octane fuel causes heat spots in the combustion chamber which EGT dosnt pick up, and these heat spots are what cause pre ignition. Again in this regard i could completely be wrong.
But one thing i am certain of. When we first start playing wi, had a few cars that lost their wi while racing, and very very very quickly destroyed engine, and after checking logs, EGTs were under 1650F and afrs were in the high 10s. when we initially looked it we were shocked, and couldnt figure it out, around 10 minutes later i noticed the eboost had lost its map signal line and this is what we were using to trigger wi.
I hope that makes sense.
05-30-09 | 07:15 PM
#35
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,135
Likes: 563
From: Florence, Alabama
just returned from a day at the dyno (23 pulls).
93 pump and methanol at approx 20-21 psi 506 rwhp SAE. details and sheet to follow. we quit as the actuators ran out of spring. i will be changing the spring out to a 19 pound item and also will need to extend my N line as there's lots of more RPM in the motor.
howard coleman
93 pump and methanol at approx 20-21 psi 506 rwhp SAE. details and sheet to follow. we quit as the actuators ran out of spring. i will be changing the spring out to a 19 pound item and also will need to extend my N line as there's lots of more RPM in the motor.
howard coleman
06-01-09 | 07:40 PM
#37
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,135
Likes: 563
From: Florence, Alabama
"Why is the boost so low?
19 pound is low.
Why no 30psi."
perhaps i didn't make myself clear w the following....
"we quit as the actuators ran out of spring. i will be changing the spring out to a 19 pound item"
the actuator spring functions similarly to an external wastegate spring. i am running new AGP modular actuators that allow for spring change. this session was the first w the new actuators and i was running a 15 pound spring. spring ratings deliver different results based on the setup. mine actually delivered only 13 psi w the boost controller off.
i do have a set of "19" pound springs and will change them out for another go. my two Garrett TO4E 46 trims make max air at 27 psi which should deliver 84 pounds per minute and 630 rwhp tuned out.
we will see.
hc
19 pound is low.
Why no 30psi."
perhaps i didn't make myself clear w the following....
"we quit as the actuators ran out of spring. i will be changing the spring out to a 19 pound item"
the actuator spring functions similarly to an external wastegate spring. i am running new AGP modular actuators that allow for spring change. this session was the first w the new actuators and i was running a 15 pound spring. spring ratings deliver different results based on the setup. mine actually delivered only 13 psi w the boost controller off.
i do have a set of "19" pound springs and will change them out for another go. my two Garrett TO4E 46 trims make max air at 27 psi which should deliver 84 pounds per minute and 630 rwhp tuned out.
we will see.
hc
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