Looking at two kits
10-20-11 | 12:31 AM
#1
Looking at two kits
Going to water/meth inj a new set of BNR's for my brothers car. I'm at these these two kits. Any pro's/ cons or bad experience with either? Also thinking a progressive kit might be preferable...
http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=243
http://www.devilsowninjection.com/en...0-stage-2.html
http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=243
http://www.devilsowninjection.com/en...0-stage-2.html
10-20-11 | 11:14 PM
#3
10-20-11 | 11:52 PM
#4
I have a Snow Stage 2 kit and I personally recommend people stay away from Snow. The controller is unreliable and does not read manifold pressures within any degree of accuracy, making it very difficult to tune the system. The nipple for the integrated MAP sensor in the controller is so far recessed into the plastic housing it's extremely difficult to get a hose of decent size on it.
Additionally, I have found the controller to be intermittent at best. The pump LED would come on indicating spray, but about 50% of the time it was not spraying. Luckily I wasn't utilizing an aggressive tune at the time. I discovered this after installing AEM's Analog 52mm water/meth flow gauge (highly recommended to anyone serious about water/meth, don't just rely on a dummy light).
That being said I would recommend the Devils Own kit you have linked or look at http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/ , very well made kits.
Additionally, I have found the controller to be intermittent at best. The pump LED would come on indicating spray, but about 50% of the time it was not spraying. Luckily I wasn't utilizing an aggressive tune at the time. I discovered this after installing AEM's Analog 52mm water/meth flow gauge (highly recommended to anyone serious about water/meth, don't just rely on a dummy light).
That being said I would recommend the Devils Own kit you have linked or look at http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/ , very well made kits.
10-21-11 | 02:54 PM
#5
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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From: Florence, Alabama
i suggest you also take a careful look at Coolingmist's broad line. David Hill, owner, has been a long time FD guy, a vendor and participant on our board. i have used their kits on various friend's cars and they work well and IMO have one of the highest customer satisfaction reps in the AI field.
howard
howard
10-22-11 | 11:59 PM
#7
i suggest you also take a careful look at Coolingmist's broad line. David Hill, owner, has been a long time FD guy, a vendor and participant on our board. i have used their kits on various friend's cars and they work well and IMO have one of the highest customer satisfaction reps in the AI field.
howard
howard
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10-23-11 | 05:19 AM
#9
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: Frankfort, Kentucky
I have a devil's own kit. It is very basic, but very good. The pump is one of the first they had sold, an old 100 psi pump, and I just recently killed the controller at my own hands. I have another DO controller in there, but because I want to run a preturbo nozzle and a flow sensor, I am considering the CMGS by Coolingmist. Not because I think there is anything wrong with the DO controller, just want more than a set it and forget it controller. Wanted to post something I typed up a while ago for another forum, but should be helpful for you
Using something other than your ECU to fuel your vehicle is taking your engine into your own hands. If you want to use WMI to reduce your EGTs, and increase your safety net, any WMI kit will do what you want, considering that you don't use too much nozzle; that could possibly hydrolock your engine, and you are competent enough to wire it so that it can't come on until you have it programmed to.
If you want to use WMI to supplement your lack of fueling or lack of cooling, and will be depending on it to keep your engine alive, then consider how much your engine, or how much a similar replacement would cost. The differences in PPS and PWM-V is up to you. The Snow or Devil's Own, with an AEM flow monitor and fail-safe should be as safe as the HFS series. You can set it to be as strict as you want, and it can activate a positive or negative to revert back to lower boost, or other fail-safe you have. Coolingmist with the CMGS or VC2 will be able to do the same thing. I can't speak on how accurate the CMGS flow failsafe is, nor can I on the HFS.
With all of this said, take a look at the kits, and consider the prices of each.
Devils' Own $375, Aem flow monitor $250 = $625 ish
Snow Stage 2 $423 + $250 = $673ish
Coolingmist with flow sensor $604
Coolingmist autolearn $649
Aquamist HFS-3 $699
If you are willing to go used, then it's a whole new ball game. The HFS stuff holds it's value, the rest can be had for cheap if you shop around. I am looking at putting together a system or two to sell from the extra parts that I have laying around because of the price difference between complete PPS kits and components. If you need leads, let me know.
Using something other than your ECU to fuel your vehicle is taking your engine into your own hands. If you want to use WMI to reduce your EGTs, and increase your safety net, any WMI kit will do what you want, considering that you don't use too much nozzle; that could possibly hydrolock your engine, and you are competent enough to wire it so that it can't come on until you have it programmed to.
If you want to use WMI to supplement your lack of fueling or lack of cooling, and will be depending on it to keep your engine alive, then consider how much your engine, or how much a similar replacement would cost. The differences in PPS and PWM-V is up to you. The Snow or Devil's Own, with an AEM flow monitor and fail-safe should be as safe as the HFS series. You can set it to be as strict as you want, and it can activate a positive or negative to revert back to lower boost, or other fail-safe you have. Coolingmist with the CMGS or VC2 will be able to do the same thing. I can't speak on how accurate the CMGS flow failsafe is, nor can I on the HFS.
With all of this said, take a look at the kits, and consider the prices of each.
Devils' Own $375, Aem flow monitor $250 = $625 ish
Snow Stage 2 $423 + $250 = $673ish
Coolingmist with flow sensor $604
Coolingmist autolearn $649
Aquamist HFS-3 $699
If you are willing to go used, then it's a whole new ball game. The HFS stuff holds it's value, the rest can be had for cheap if you shop around. I am looking at putting together a system or two to sell from the extra parts that I have laying around because of the price difference between complete PPS kits and components. If you need leads, let me know.
10-23-11 | 08:41 AM
#10
i suggest you also take a careful look at Coolingmist's broad line. David Hill, owner, has been a long time FD guy, a vendor and participant on our board. i have used their kits on various friend's cars and they work well and IMO have one of the highest customer satisfaction reps in the AI field.
howard
howard
+1
i have two kits and they are both great
10-25-11 | 02:05 AM
#11
I have a devil's own kit. It is very basic, but very good. The pump is one of the first they had sold, an old 100 psi pump, and I just recently killed the controller at my own hands. I have another DO controller in there, but because I want to run a preturbo nozzle and a flow sensor, I am considering the CMGS by Coolingmist. Not because I think there is anything wrong with the DO controller, just want more than a set it and forget it controller. Wanted to post something I typed up a while ago for another forum, but should be helpful for you
Using something other than your ECU to fuel your vehicle is taking your engine into your own hands. If you want to use WMI to reduce your EGTs, and increase your safety net, any WMI kit will do what you want, considering that you don't use too much nozzle; that could possibly hydrolock your engine, and you are competent enough to wire it so that it can't come on until you have it programmed to.
If you want to use WMI to supplement your lack of fueling or lack of cooling, and will be depending on it to keep your engine alive, then consider how much your engine, or how much a similar replacement would cost. The differences in PPS and PWM-V is up to you. The Snow or Devil's Own, with an AEM flow monitor and fail-safe should be as safe as the HFS series. You can set it to be as strict as you want, and it can activate a positive or negative to revert back to lower boost, or other fail-safe you have. Coolingmist with the CMGS or VC2 will be able to do the same thing. I can't speak on how accurate the CMGS flow failsafe is, nor can I on the HFS.
With all of this said, take a look at the kits, and consider the prices of each.
Devils' Own $375, Aem flow monitor $250 = $625 ish
Snow Stage 2 $423 + $250 = $673ish
Coolingmist with flow sensor $604
Coolingmist autolearn $649
Aquamist HFS-3 $699
If you are willing to go used, then it's a whole new ball game. The HFS stuff holds it's value, the rest can be had for cheap if you shop around. I am looking at putting together a system or two to sell from the extra parts that I have laying around because of the price difference between complete PPS kits and components. If you need leads, let me know.
Using something other than your ECU to fuel your vehicle is taking your engine into your own hands. If you want to use WMI to reduce your EGTs, and increase your safety net, any WMI kit will do what you want, considering that you don't use too much nozzle; that could possibly hydrolock your engine, and you are competent enough to wire it so that it can't come on until you have it programmed to.
If you want to use WMI to supplement your lack of fueling or lack of cooling, and will be depending on it to keep your engine alive, then consider how much your engine, or how much a similar replacement would cost. The differences in PPS and PWM-V is up to you. The Snow or Devil's Own, with an AEM flow monitor and fail-safe should be as safe as the HFS series. You can set it to be as strict as you want, and it can activate a positive or negative to revert back to lower boost, or other fail-safe you have. Coolingmist with the CMGS or VC2 will be able to do the same thing. I can't speak on how accurate the CMGS flow failsafe is, nor can I on the HFS.
With all of this said, take a look at the kits, and consider the prices of each.
Devils' Own $375, Aem flow monitor $250 = $625 ish
Snow Stage 2 $423 + $250 = $673ish
Coolingmist with flow sensor $604
Coolingmist autolearn $649
Aquamist HFS-3 $699
If you are willing to go used, then it's a whole new ball game. The HFS stuff holds it's value, the rest can be had for cheap if you shop around. I am looking at putting together a system or two to sell from the extra parts that I have laying around because of the price difference between complete PPS kits and components. If you need leads, let me know.
10-25-11 | 11:48 PM
#12
10-29-11 | 05:17 PM
#14
I'm one of those guys that has consistently run 18 psi or so on cali 91 pump and water. (sequential BNR's)
My system is a relatively simple 2 stage based on a 150psi pump. 1st stage comes on at 8# and is fogged at about 100cc/min preturbo--in the airbox (primarily intended for thermal management), the second stage comes on at the sequential transition and is about 300cc/min additional. Works great. Low knock, engine is clean and runs noticeably smoother with the injection.
Very important:
I have incorporated a pressure interlock fail-safe on the 2nd stage: If the AI pressure drops below 60-80PSI [at the big nozzle] the wastegate is immediately opened.
There is elegance in simplicity. For engine protection, water is most needed at peak torque (max BMEP), not necessarily max RPM. A staged system such as what I have described seems ideal for water, or up to maybe a 50/50 mix. At these boost levels, It doesn't seem a more complex control is needed until you start using a high percentage meth as fuel, then there will be some benefit to a proportional control.
My system is a relatively simple 2 stage based on a 150psi pump. 1st stage comes on at 8# and is fogged at about 100cc/min preturbo--in the airbox (primarily intended for thermal management), the second stage comes on at the sequential transition and is about 300cc/min additional. Works great. Low knock, engine is clean and runs noticeably smoother with the injection.
Very important:
I have incorporated a pressure interlock fail-safe on the 2nd stage: If the AI pressure drops below 60-80PSI [at the big nozzle] the wastegate is immediately opened.
There is elegance in simplicity. For engine protection, water is most needed at peak torque (max BMEP), not necessarily max RPM. A staged system such as what I have described seems ideal for water, or up to maybe a 50/50 mix. At these boost levels, It doesn't seem a more complex control is needed until you start using a high percentage meth as fuel, then there will be some benefit to a proportional control.
11-21-11 | 01:47 AM
#15
I'm one of those guys that has consistently run 18 psi or so on cali 91 pump and water. (sequential BNR's)
My system is a relatively simple 2 stage based on a 150psi pump. 1st stage comes on at 8# and is fogged at about 100cc/min preturbo--in the airbox (primarily intended for thermal management), the second stage comes on at the sequential transition and is about 300cc/min additional. Works great. Low knock, engine is clean and runs noticeably smoother with the injection.
Very important:
I have incorporated a pressure interlock fail-safe on the 2nd stage: If the AI pressure drops below 60-80PSI [at the big nozzle] the wastegate is immediately opened.
There is elegance in simplicity. For engine protection, water is most needed at peak torque (max BMEP), not necessarily max RPM. A staged system such as what I have described seems ideal for water, or up to maybe a 50/50 mix. At these boost levels, It doesn't seem a more complex control is needed until you start using a high percentage meth as fuel, then there will be some benefit to a proportional control.
My system is a relatively simple 2 stage based on a 150psi pump. 1st stage comes on at 8# and is fogged at about 100cc/min preturbo--in the airbox (primarily intended for thermal management), the second stage comes on at the sequential transition and is about 300cc/min additional. Works great. Low knock, engine is clean and runs noticeably smoother with the injection.
Very important:
I have incorporated a pressure interlock fail-safe on the 2nd stage: If the AI pressure drops below 60-80PSI [at the big nozzle] the wastegate is immediately opened.
There is elegance in simplicity. For engine protection, water is most needed at peak torque (max BMEP), not necessarily max RPM. A staged system such as what I have described seems ideal for water, or up to maybe a 50/50 mix. At these boost levels, It doesn't seem a more complex control is needed until you start using a high percentage meth as fuel, then there will be some benefit to a proportional control.
What system are you using?
11-21-11 | 11:25 PM
#16
Hey Chris,
My system is a composite built out of parts from various sources and no particular kit. The controls are simple but effective. I'll see if I can find some pics....
My system is a composite built out of parts from various sources and no particular kit. The controls are simple but effective. I'll see if I can find some pics....
11-22-11 | 02:21 AM
#18
11-22-11 | 02:23 AM
#19
12-15-11 | 12:44 AM
#20
12-16-11 | 04:26 AM
#21
By popular demand, I will post more info on this soon.
10-28-12 | 04:16 AM
#23
Just stumbled back on this thread. I wanted to thank Joe (Speed of Light) and Howard Coleman with all the info he has thrown on this site. Big help.
I used this kit. 3 gallons and the pump is attached to the tank, inside the car.
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...c37/index.html
I used this kit. 3 gallons and the pump is attached to the tank, inside the car.
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...c37/index.html
Last edited by Mr rx-7 tt; 10-28-12 at 04:18 AM.
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