rdahm

iTrader: (6)

Im a huge believer in management by measurement. I enjoy a little hearsay, but i wish i was logging EGT. From my summary of the information, the greatest changes are:

Ignition Air temp = methanol
Exhaust Gas temp = water

so its sad that im running water and logging ignition air lol.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Awesome video man!

I haven't logged EGT either, from what I have read some people have seen 100-150* difference in EGT with water and some haven"t noticed any significant change. (not sure the amount injected)

What I have noticed and logged was a huge effect on killing knock. Knock caused by pre-ignition or detonation is really what kills motors. Water does this not only by slowing and cooling the combustion process but also by cleaning any and all carbon out of the engine. Carbon buildup will start to glow and can ignite the mixture before the plug fires, leading to pre-ignition and knock.

Considering I'm running 23 psi on 93 pump gas (8 psi more then what's been deemed as "safe") I run full throttle through the gears everytime I get in the car, and my knock readings are in the low 20's. This is enough for me to love water. "It's the essence of life", for me and my rotary.

The Griffin

Dudemaaanownsanrx7, what's the reason/advantage for using an externally mixed nozzel vrs. an internally mixed nozzel in these kits? Wouldn't the internal nozzels be a smaller profile if you are trying to fit it into a pipe instead of filter? ....cheers

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Maybe. Never tested them. When I was looking for a nozzle with certain characteristics and flow that's what was recommended to me. They cost so much that it's not feasible to do testing on several nozzles

just startn

iTrader: (33)

i havnt bought a nozzle yet Maybe i will try and find a different type/style see the outcome. the only thing i want in front of the turbo is the nozzle..nothing else. i dont want the solinoid or anything else to be in front of it. i understand there will be a delay to the nozzle b/c there will be a line going from the soilnoid to the nozzle. figured just set it at a lower boost pressure to come on. say you want it to start spraying at 8psi, set it to 6...

just startn

iTrader: (33)

also my snow performance tank, looks like the exact one that comes in the kit posted above, it has a pin hole in the top and im wondering if the tank that comes with the kit has one..im plugging mine.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

These tanks are completely sealed. Prob best to plug the hole if you plan on doing the pressure type system.

The main reason I mounted the solenoid to the nozzle was to reduce any chance of drips. Though I was told in testing this may not actually be an issue. In the kit for my car I had the nozzle and solenoid separate with about 8" of hose. If I was to do it over I think I would mount the solenoid to the nozzle to ease in mounting everything. Either way should work well and the nozzle could always be unscrewed from the solenoid as well.

Rx4 whore

Brent why did you move the nozzle from the air filter to the bend just before the turbo inlet?

Did you find that the nozzle was spraying on the filter & soaking it?

Wo:Deep

Hey Rx4,
I think Brent has moved the Nozzle because he moved the Filter.
On Preturbo injection you should prevent the water from laying onto any pipe-wall before your turbo due to generating larger drops (from condensating on your pipe) then "falling" onto your blades!

So I think he moved it from the Filter to the "elbow" infront of the Turbo to keep the shortest possible way to the Turboinlet.


Off+ Ontopic,

sorry to use this thread.
But in a few Weeks I´ll get my WI- system.

I´m running the stock twins @ the moment @ 17PSI (so really maxed out + real bad compressor efficiency)

All other Things are done to run the Setup. (plugs, twinpower, 4x850inj. , pump, Cold Air intake, KnightSports V-Mount etc.)

What I now want to do is run pre throttleplate.

My question is now the same as Sandros:

How can I make sure that the most amount of water is only released when second turbo is in action.

I´ll put 2 M2 nozzels preturbo.
1 for primary 1 for sec.- Turbo...

They`ll spray 178ccm each.

maybe this will be okay if they spray both on the primary before the secondary starts??

I don´t really know.

Second question is:

Is it okay to put it in the filter or is the filter location too far away from the turbo??

maybe I have to find out.

I think I´ll make a seperate thread about a WI install on stock twins with all the physics and mathematics + tuning + dynoresults...

about you Brent...
keep doing the great work!! Looks really great!

Regards
Marc

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

few questions...

Im looking at the same nozzle as you from ispray.com (1/4J+sue18). But i am unsure if its what i need. im looking for something that will inject about 300cc at 10-12psi, Since thats the amount of boost i'll be running... And just because i am curious, is there a way to figure out what it injects at any set pressure. Because i will have it start injecting at 3psi, so i want to know how much is injecting at the lower pressure to be sure not to flood my motor with water/meth.

I have everything else already. And im ready to install it. But im stuck on wich nozzle to use... Ant help here would be a big help. thanks!

Wo:Deep

Hi,

you can calculate it by:

(Rated Flow @ 100PSI) * squareroot(desired pressure / 100)


regards

Marc

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

The sue18 is too small. It's rated at 380cc at 20 psi which would be okay for your needs but in testing it flowed less then 200cc at 20 psi. I modified mine to flow more, and the new kits I've done use a custom nozzle from spray systems that use different air and fluid caps. I recommend a minimum of 500cc at 20 psi which will be enough at lower boosts as well, you can get by with less but 500 seems about right. The nozzles at ispray are all overrated by quite a bit though so it makes it hard to pick the correct nozzle. Also 3 psi is pretty low to start injecting, I ran through water way too quick at 3 psi. When I raised it to 8 psi my water lasted considerably longer. To calculate flow at differerent pressures, use this formula: square root(new pressure / old pressure) * old flow= new flow.

Example: sqrt(3 / 20)* 380=57cc

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

thanks for the formula. I barely ever see boost when just driving around. Im usually in vacuum because i drive pretty calm. So water consumption shouldnt be a problem...

Where do yuo get your nozzles from now?

TheAsset

iTrader: (11)

I just got my system finished up and I had a few final questions, right now I'm just using the 380cc nozzle but from what I just read it only flows about 200cc at 20psi....I plan on running 20+psi so where do I find a nozzle that'll provide 500cc at 20psi (or around that?)

I also had a question about the nut, which is screwed in on the inside of the pipe...should I just use Red Loctite and pray that it doesn't back off and kiss the turbo? I have rubber o-rings on both sides so they do provide a little bite.

Also wanted to ask about having a check valve in with the line that provides the pressure to the tank, and what is the final say on how to route the vacuum between the solenoid and tank pressure line? Other then that everything was pretty straight forward just wanna double check to be sure.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

^is that the coolingmist solenoid your using?

TheAsset

iTrader: (11)

Yes I bought my solenoid as well as the boost pressure switch from coolingmist...I am still looking for a few answers before I finalize everything.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

So using your formula (if i did it right) and looking at the needs of my car, im looking to inject 275cc at 11psi. Wich comes out to 500cc @20psi (like you stated i needed). But after searching through ispray for what seemed like hours, i can not figure out that site. I even talked to an online help person who couldnt help me either. How can i find wich nozzle is going to have the right flow for me needs?

*I only need 275cc pre-turbo because im already injecting in two places post-turbo. One 180cc injector right after the turbo, and a 250cc injector in the end tank of the stock intercooler right before the fins.

TheAsset

iTrader: (11)

That's basically the same question I asked, Id just like to know what 'improved' nozzles are being used now

Sandro

iTrader: (1)

I contacted Spray in the past and exchanged emails with

Bob Titchenell (Application Engineer)

Almaka Corp.
Spraying Systems Co.®
Experts in Spray Technology
Phone Office (610)-459-5913
Cell (610)-505-3404
Fax (610)-459-8273
E-Mail: Bob.Titchenell@spray.com

Spray provides very little data on their website. Bob can make the calculations for you. It's not so simple like the square of the delta pressure - that is OK if you use a regular nozzle with a pump. For an atomizing nozzle the most important parameter is the air flow.

For you to have an idea about the relationships among parameters for in atomizing nozzle (not the Spray) click on the the links I included in my previous post https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=127

- Sandro

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

I have a local spray systems rep that provides me with nozzles. They use different fluid and air caps then any specific model in the sue series. I mainly wanted to get enough water flow with decent atomization which required larger air caps, but even with the different combinations I've tried I still end up drilling the fluid caps out because they are all overrated. The nozzles aren't cheap and it's rather trial and error.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

I found that the sue18 has a .028” orifice. And a a SUE25A has a.040” orifice.

I might just go with the sue28 and see where that gets me.

What are you drilling them out to?

TheAsset

iTrader: (11)

When you flow tested nozzle how did you go about doing it? Did you measure the actual water pressure on the feed side of the nozzle? Depending on line length/size etc.. you could have a pretty decent pressure drop and thus hindering the flow of the nozzle and skewing the results, I dont think any company would inflate the actual flow numbers that much and more then likely the issue is your own setup and not the nozzle itself.

I've sent you a PM hope to hear back from you soon

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

I have tested several of their nozzles and they are all overrated. It's impossible for there to be enough pressure drop to make much difference. My methods of testing involves regulating 20 psi of pressure in the tank with an aircompressor and filling a measuring container for exactly 1 minute. I don't remember precisely how much each nozzle flowed but it was much lower then what they were rated. Not only that, but I found some literature for their nozzles on a spanish site and the measurements were different then on their us site. You wouldn't think they would be off by so much but my testing shows they are. If anyone would like to test them for themselves they are more then welcome to. I don't seem to have a pm in my inbox?

TheAsset

iTrader: (11)

Common sense tells me, that a company that manufactures hundreds of thousands of these nozzles, probably do some extensive testing on them to make sure they flow correctly, they aren't going to spend all of that R&D money on designing something only to just toss a flow rating on it and sale it to the masses. Someone should call them and probably ask what their testing procedures are and then duplicate it or see what element of the design that we are leaving out.

I would love to see someone put a pressure gauge just before the 'water inlet' on the atomizing nozzle and see what pressure you get.

These were some of the questions I PM'd you

1) The line feeding the pressure to the tank...should I worry about water entering that line when the throttle is closed? I can't see too much vacuum being created pre-throttle body, so I doubt that'd be an issue but wanted to double check.

2) The piece on the nozzle that gets screwed on inside of the intake pipe, I'm assuming you feel pretty safe with using RED loctite? Is that your only means for securing that piece?

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Have you been to spray systems website? It's one of the worst sites I have ever had to use. It never comes up with the correct part numbers when using their nozzle locator. It's difficult to navigate, purchasing is a pain etc. Maybe their testing is on par with their website. When I told the sales representative I deal with, that the nozzles didn't flow what they were rated he didn't seem surprised. And like I said on their spanish website the same nozzles had different flow rates then on their us site. So that already goes to show that they aren't accurately rated. You can't have 2 ratings for the same nozzle. I really can't see what special testing method they could use that would nearly double the flow that I got in testing. Maybe they don't use water for testing. I have no idea. But I am certain the pressure at my nozzle was damn near right at 20 psi.

In any case the nozzle is still too small, and you can't accurately go off the flow ratings that they use. For our application of injecting water and pressurizing a tank to 20 psi with a turbo, the ratings do not match up, not even close.

Check valve: Not needed unless it's post throttle body. There won't be vacuum pre-throttle body.

Loctite should work fine, I didn't use anything on mine just made sure it was on their tight. I've checked it several times and it never loosened up. Spray systems also makes a thin wall adapter that doesn't use that large "nut" to hold the spray cap in place. You drill a hole use the adapter with a nut and screw the nozzle into the adapter. No idea on the price though, but pretty nice way of doing it.