evilg

If you (And I don't mean you Slo) do your research, you will find out about this system. Yes you need a decent ign system (as you would expect from making any amount of power) - Pete has already mentioned which system he prefers in about 4 different forum posts that I can think of.

If you truly are interested in this system, and not just posting for the hell of it, send Pete and email and he will answer you.... if not, then please stop speculating about what you don't know.

(Once again, not directed at you Slo.. just quoted you regarding ign)

RXHEAVEN_WA

Can you read? or do you just post for the hell of it

You can see the AFR listed on the dyno sheet, and VBOX logs and the EGT This thread is getting funnier by the minute. I wonder if any of you are really interested have you bothered to look at any of the information in the copious amounts of data posted ??? If you were still confused did you get off your *** and e-mail rice???

^ Answer is no probably

To keep on saying this is a "claim"
is vastly insulting to:

JSR Race Engines
NRS Ceramic Power Seals
Rice Racing
and all forum readers who can read and acknowledge the real epic results posted

slo

iTrader: (1)

No way, so what your saying is the car would have made 600HP without the water injection?

Either your tuning with the system installed from the get go or your retuning after the system has been installed.

evilg

No.. the car would go grenade like without the water injection.

The question was.... what does my tuner need to know?... nothing other than to not be afraid of boosting 30 PSI (which as we know you can't do without WI)

I don't understand what you are getting at here?

slo

iTrader: (1)

I am responding to this retarded post:

Which is suggesting that you can just throw the system on and turn up the boost without retuning.

evilg

please, for sanities' sake, everyone reading this thread, read this!! :

http://www.riceracing.com.au/resourc...rinjection.pdf

yes.... it is longer than 2 lines, but it explains a lot......

evilg

Oh I see what you mean now... yes, of course it needs to be tuned for 30PSI when you install the WI ..... I figured that was a given

slo

iTrader: (1)

To be fair I was also injecting some of my own experience with tuning with WI, in that I have tended to see better results with noticeably leaner mixtures, else the EGT's would be lower then desired, and ign breakup would become un-manageable (I have CDI's running a pair of coils one per for the leading).

But I would suppose that a tuner who had right tools and exp would tune as if the system wasn't there and end up with good results, just that I would argue that the actual results as far as BSFC, EGT's, AFR would inevitably be somewhat different for a properly tuned system without the WI.

On my car without WI I can run down to 10.5 AFR or richer, with WI at about the same boost the AFR was getting bad breakup under 11.0 or so and seemed to run good at 11.7 AFR while making more power at same boost, on 91 octane California pump gas.

blimp

iTrader: (2)

so whats the closest hp anyone else has gotten with just a water injection kit? Well with similar setup.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

I hear you, he does come off as an *******; however in his defense, he has posted TONS of technical info, pertaining his kit. Long time ago, I was looking for the same type of info, and his answer was do a search!

Well, I ended up finding all of his WI post, and found the following:

- Nozzle supplier
- amount of CCs we should inject (and how to measure them)
- Rough idea on how to plumb it (and if you look at his video\pic on his website, you should be good to go)
- Ignition system setup that should be used with his kit

His system might not be the greatest, and it is expensive; but I truely believe that its a most for our engines.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

That's all there is to it


Yup!

JSR Race Engines

Sorry it’s not in HORSEPOWER. Not holding a flat boost curve - oh well, thats plenty of power anyway!! Thats 601rwhp





I have to say straight up that my initial goal a few years ago was to have a good reliable 320rwkw (around 430rwhp) running on straight pump fuel. I ran around for years on 250rwkw(335rwhp) and the car was very fast in the little Capella.

Then the insane power bug bit, and I completely re-engineered the whole engine bay. Just prior to the good engine going in, I experimented on some engines that I screwed together using parts I had lying around to see how it all would go on pump fuel and higher boost (very low boost in hindsight ) I found quite quickly that they would detonate and die at the high power the engine wanted to put out on 20PSI++.

I built myself a sweet half-bridge Cosmo RE engine using Mazda apex seals, new turbo and fuel system, and fitted a manual trans (had an auto box in in for drags).

At about this time, a local guy had a standard S5 13b turbo engine running a TO4 that Pete (Rice Racing) had put his WI on and tuned. I watched the car at several local dyno days running 26psi on pump fuel and loving it!! I knew instantly that this was what I needed to have.

I went and saw Pete at Rice Racing about his water injection, bought one of his nozzles, and installed WI to the car. I then picked him up one night in the Mazda and drove around doing a full road tune on 22 psi from scratch. I chucked the car on the dyno later that week for a power readout and it made 431rwkw (578rwhp).

After driving the car with an 18psi spring in the wastegate (minimum boost) for several thousand kilometres of abuse - I found that the Mazda steel apex seals showed bad signs of stress I.e chamfered leading edge and gradual loss of compression.

I then chucked some NRS apex seals in it and haven’t had a problem since. (many thousands of kilometres, many top speed runs, 50++ dyno runs, 18psi lowest boost setting which is around 390rwkw or around 520rwhp)

I did some road tuning with Rice on New Year’s Day this year before a car show/dyno comp. It was a 38 degree C (100 degree Fahrenheit) day and we ran the car to 27psi boost many many times without issue. God only knows what power it was making!! (had some super sticky tyres on it and the road was very hot so I had a suprising amount of traction)

I have only ever dynoed the car on around 24psi and I think that’s all I’ll ever run on the dyno - it already got waaaay too much power - it makes more power than I wanted to make with a 20b turbo that I was considering putting in the car.

The specs that Sven (Glassman) has listed are correct. Any other more specific details I will leave out. I don’t normally post my **** on the internet, but since someone has done it anyway, I thought it best to tell the story, as well as extend my thanks to Pete at Rice Racing - without his tuning, water injection, and supplied NRS apex seals, this achievement wouldn’t be possible.

I can’t even begin to explain how this thing feels on the road. If I stand on the throttle on low boost (18psi) at any speed under 180kph (110mph), it leaves two black lines. I had a car full of people in it and ran 24psi and the gearbox literally exploded just bringing it on to boost.

WATER INJECTION ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!

Barry Bordes

Jake,

I am amazed at how low your EGT were on the charts from Pete’s records. What do you attribute the low EGT’s to?

Also do you do any special water cooling mods to your housings to help control housing warpage?

Congratulations,

Barry

JSR Race Engines

The recorded EGT's I attribute entirely to Water Injection.

Housings are standard. I don't see the need to modify these - I have never seen a problem with housings that are subjected to normal operating temperatures - i.e not a power related issue.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

Jake,

again my congrats to you and Peter for all you have accomplished. love your car too. here's what i road raced for 6 years:



details here: https://www.rx7club.com/old-school-other-rotary-63/my-rx3sp-gt3-scca-614456/

anyway, the reason for the post... could you either repost your sheet w rpm on the bottom or just give me a couple a couple of rpm/speed points so i can understand your run better?

thanks,

howard

BDC

Just checked out the dyno and the info, Jake. Great stuff and nice car my man.

B

blitzboy

checked out Rices videos, cool videos, cant see why it should not work and get these really good results.
Remember some Allied Piston fighter planes were using Pre Charger WI.
German Fighter planes used WI as well, I need to double check but they were using either MW50 mix or straight water depending on the supply of methonal, but unsure if they were injecting pre or post charger

JSR Race Engines

That is a serious looking car you had there!!

I don't have any runs with the RPM calibrated on the dyno that I can print off for you. I will have my VBox on the car this weekend for a track day, so I will try to remember to get some RPM/speed references for you. I may need to use the dyno for another car next week, so I might just wait until then to calibrate the RPM and print off the graph.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

The kit in the picture on rice racing's site appears to be pretty simple. I like the idea of not running an external pump, though the container in the picture looks rather cumbersome. I imagine the kit he sells uses something a bit different.

It looks like boost pressure enters the top of the container at a T to pressurize the container, and also feed the bottom of the nozzle with regulated air pressure. the air would help atomize the water. The water would be forced out the bottom by boost pressure and goes to some sort of switch that either regulatex the flow of water through it, or is activated at a certain pressure. My guess being the latter, it then goes from there to a filter? and then the side of the nozzle. This is my take on how the system probably operates anyways.

I wonder if a setup like this would allow enough water flow.. having the air pressure at the bottom of the nozzle would help atomize the water so a larger orifice could be used to flow more water at a lower pressure. Course most pre turbine setups i have seen run a lower cc anyways so maybe higher pressures arent needed.

ZAN_TUNING

iTrader: (1)

you're very close! the nozzle is the main secret it's what creates the better than perfect atomization that allows running pre-turbo to be so gooooood!

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Yeah I'm making a system very similar using an air atomizing nozzle part number SUE18 which flows around 380cc. I think I read recently Rice used to use a similar nozzle (SUE18A) which flows less (200cc), but he would then drill it out to flow up to around 700cc. He may be using a different nozzle now.

Rixio_Scon

I just stumbled upon this thread. After reading some sentiments about Rice and his kit, I tend to agree with some regarding his deflective nature when answering specific technical questions pertaining to his kit.

I recently contacted Pete as I wanted to run Pre-Turbo on my BNR Stage 3's. I had a few questions about how I would run the system and how it would need to run for optimum performance on twins.

Every question was directed back to Pete's WI section on his site. I found it very frustrating as my questions were not going to be answered by re-reading it. Yes there is some very good info on the site regarding WI but its just generic and nothing specific or relative to the Rice Kit

Eventually after a few weeks of asking, I got some answers but they were still very unspecific.

As a consumer and a businessman I can see both sides of the argument, as he wants to protect his product. However, I do believe that Pete needs to be more specific with what his kit does and how it works. I know he is losing custom from the lack of technical specs and general info.

Please dont misunderstand, I have every faith in the kit and Pete, believing it does exactly what it should I still intend to use the kit, however FAITH is not always enough for some.

I will make another thread specificly about my setup soon.

MaD^94Rx7

iTrader: (1)

how much does this kit cost anyways??

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

$700-800 is what I've read in different places. I made my kit under the same concept for under $200, the nozzle is the most expensive part being $70. Rice gives lifetime support with his kits which is where part of the cost can be justified.

RXHEAVEN_WA

I don't thing you can compare especially when you are not comparing an apple to an apple

Rice's "kit"

Use's his own modified/configured atomizer (raw item may come from same company you bought yours but its not the "same item") and flow control valve, this is thus bespoke from what I understand, it is listed and individually hand calibrated with its own flow chart *supplied*.

Fittings are high quality japan manufactured items, same for supplied Hose, easy to service filter body assembly, very high quality adjustable switch and solenoid all tested by him to work and function to his high standards.

Along with that you get his unrivaled experience and support to the original purchaser *estimated cost value attached to this side???* can you put a price on it for someone giving you the key to the door of rotary reliability? would you even dare to think what component of this is in the cost he nominates?

^ Too many variables to guess IMHO and it is not fair to him or the "kit" he offers and supplies the world over to people who want an engineered proven solution. ***What time component do you put into your own developed system, even though its just off the shelf parts not prepared to the same rigorous standard***

Anyone can go make their own based of his proven set up, its a free world and he has helped many such people to go do that you will find you can not blame him from keeping some very basic ingredients (of his own system) to him self, albeit these are the most important aspects to doing this in the best way.

I will pass on your concerns and feedback to him, if you have something specific you would like to see on the water injection site then e-mail him is best.