Autronic Wideband for Autronic ECU
10-17-05 | 08:09 PM
#1
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Rotary Freak
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: trinidad and tobago
Wideband for Autronic ECU
Is anyone out there using any other type of wideband (other than Autronic's) , sucessfully with their ECU ? , how about the new INNOVATIVE XD-1 are these conpatible with them ?, I want to get my own "in car" system , but don't know which to get.
10-18-05 | 04:13 AM
#4
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8
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From: Canada
Originally Posted by Marcel Burkett
I can get one rented from my dealer , I'd really like to get one to put into the car , but the Autronic analyzers are SOO expensive.
10-18-05 | 03:52 PM
#7
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8
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From: Canada
This is right from Ray Hall the international distributer of the Autronic system.
The Autronic analysers are a high quality professional analysers. They will give years workshop service despite the abuse they receive. They also are very accurate, with a corrected (differential) 0 to 1 and 0 to 5 volt output.
You cannot make analyser of this quality for the price of the Innovate and other cheap brands. I am not to blame because the cheap brands do not have a corrected output, nor is it a conspiracy to require this type of output. It needs to be like this to get a stable accurate signal.
An analyser with a corrected output will mean the Autotune, mixture table and maths key tuning works as it should. Use an analyser without the corrected signal, and I end up with customer comments like "the Autotune is a waste of time it does not work very well".
The next thing is understanding corrected output
The corrected output of the lambda analyzer outputs a voltage that is relative to the voltage read on the analyzer output signal ground wire.
It is essential that the lambda output signal from the analyzer is compensated for ground potential in this manner. Say the analyzer is grounded at battery minus, and the ECU is grounded somewhere in the chassis. Starting of a high power cooling fan, or operation of an ABS servo or any other equipment drawing a high start current might easily make the lambda output one volt off or so for a short while, if not compensated for the difference in voltage between the battery minus and the chassis ground point at the ECU. A volt or so in output error is quite much for a one volt span linear lambda output signal. Even 0.1 Volts can be catastrophic to the fueling, so the output must be referenced to unloaded ground potential at the ECU lambda input circuitry.
The bottom line is if you want to use the auto tune and math functions of the autronic you need to use an Autronic wideband. I have one when I tune you would be amazed how fast it is. You can mess with other brands but heh whatever. If it works great, if it doesn't you wasted your money. Oh yea don't phone autronic and their distributers to try and get help with brand X. They will just say it doesn't work.
The Autronic analysers are a high quality professional analysers. They will give years workshop service despite the abuse they receive. They also are very accurate, with a corrected (differential) 0 to 1 and 0 to 5 volt output.
You cannot make analyser of this quality for the price of the Innovate and other cheap brands. I am not to blame because the cheap brands do not have a corrected output, nor is it a conspiracy to require this type of output. It needs to be like this to get a stable accurate signal.
An analyser with a corrected output will mean the Autotune, mixture table and maths key tuning works as it should. Use an analyser without the corrected signal, and I end up with customer comments like "the Autotune is a waste of time it does not work very well".
The next thing is understanding corrected output
The corrected output of the lambda analyzer outputs a voltage that is relative to the voltage read on the analyzer output signal ground wire.
It is essential that the lambda output signal from the analyzer is compensated for ground potential in this manner. Say the analyzer is grounded at battery minus, and the ECU is grounded somewhere in the chassis. Starting of a high power cooling fan, or operation of an ABS servo or any other equipment drawing a high start current might easily make the lambda output one volt off or so for a short while, if not compensated for the difference in voltage between the battery minus and the chassis ground point at the ECU. A volt or so in output error is quite much for a one volt span linear lambda output signal. Even 0.1 Volts can be catastrophic to the fueling, so the output must be referenced to unloaded ground potential at the ECU lambda input circuitry.
The bottom line is if you want to use the auto tune and math functions of the autronic you need to use an Autronic wideband. I have one when I tune you would be amazed how fast it is. You can mess with other brands but heh whatever. If it works great, if it doesn't you wasted your money. Oh yea don't phone autronic and their distributers to try and get help with brand X. They will just say it doesn't work.
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10-18-05 | 04:35 PM
#8
Junior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7
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From: Earth
Originally Posted by Marcel Burkett
The LC-1 is the new one thats built into a cable right ?, anyone has a user guide available ?, can you post up some technical innofmation ?
Autronic SM2 and LM-1/LC-1
LM-1 and autronic SM4
Here you can find some info about Innovate WB against other WB´s
Check innovates forum for more information..
10-18-05 | 04:40 PM
#9
Junior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Earth
Originally Posted by ac3wat3r
This is right from Ray Hall the international distributer of the Autronic system.
The Autronic analysers are a high quality professional analysers. They will give years workshop service despite the abuse they receive. They also are very accurate, with a corrected (differential) 0 to 1 and 0 to 5 volt output.
You cannot make analyser of this quality for the price of the Innovate and other cheap brands. I am not to blame because the cheap brands do not have a corrected output, nor is it a conspiracy to require this type of output. It needs to be like this to get a stable accurate signal.
An analyser with a corrected output will mean the Autotune, mixture table and maths key tuning works as it should. Use an analyser without the corrected signal, and I end up with customer comments like "the Autotune is a waste of time it does not work very well".
The next thing is understanding corrected output
The corrected output of the lambda analyzer outputs a voltage that is relative to the voltage read on the analyzer output signal ground wire.
It is essential that the lambda output signal from the analyzer is compensated for ground potential in this manner. Say the analyzer is grounded at battery minus, and the ECU is grounded somewhere in the chassis. Starting of a high power cooling fan, or operation of an ABS servo or any other equipment drawing a high start current might easily make the lambda output one volt off or so for a short while, if not compensated for the difference in voltage between the battery minus and the chassis ground point at the ECU. A volt or so in output error is quite much for a one volt span linear lambda output signal. Even 0.1 Volts can be catastrophic to the fueling, so the output must be referenced to unloaded ground potential at the ECU lambda input circuitry.
The bottom line is if you want to use the auto tune and math functions of the autronic you need to use an Autronic wideband. I have one when I tune you would be amazed how fast it is. You can mess with other brands but heh whatever. If it works great, if it doesn't you wasted your money. Oh yea don't phone autronic and their distributers to try and get help with brand X. They will just say it doesn't work.
The Autronic analysers are a high quality professional analysers. They will give years workshop service despite the abuse they receive. They also are very accurate, with a corrected (differential) 0 to 1 and 0 to 5 volt output.
You cannot make analyser of this quality for the price of the Innovate and other cheap brands. I am not to blame because the cheap brands do not have a corrected output, nor is it a conspiracy to require this type of output. It needs to be like this to get a stable accurate signal.
An analyser with a corrected output will mean the Autotune, mixture table and maths key tuning works as it should. Use an analyser without the corrected signal, and I end up with customer comments like "the Autotune is a waste of time it does not work very well".
The next thing is understanding corrected output
The corrected output of the lambda analyzer outputs a voltage that is relative to the voltage read on the analyzer output signal ground wire.
It is essential that the lambda output signal from the analyzer is compensated for ground potential in this manner. Say the analyzer is grounded at battery minus, and the ECU is grounded somewhere in the chassis. Starting of a high power cooling fan, or operation of an ABS servo or any other equipment drawing a high start current might easily make the lambda output one volt off or so for a short while, if not compensated for the difference in voltage between the battery minus and the chassis ground point at the ECU. A volt or so in output error is quite much for a one volt span linear lambda output signal. Even 0.1 Volts can be catastrophic to the fueling, so the output must be referenced to unloaded ground potential at the ECU lambda input circuitry.
The bottom line is if you want to use the auto tune and math functions of the autronic you need to use an Autronic wideband. I have one when I tune you would be amazed how fast it is. You can mess with other brands but heh whatever. If it works great, if it doesn't you wasted your money. Oh yea don't phone autronic and their distributers to try and get help with brand X. They will just say it doesn't work.
Mayby the Autronics people isnt the only clever ones in electricity
10-18-05 | 07:40 PM
#10
IRS Champion
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 1
From: NY
hey you guys can do what you want and use whichever sensor you please. i have used a bunch and would never use anything but an autronic b model wideband. So far nothing i've used is as good. Marcel if i was you i would rent the wideband from your dealer and use it to tune your car properly. Then if you want to get a wideband just for show in your dashboard you can get whatever you please. Remember rotary exhaust is very hot and innovate and other cheap widebands don't last to long when exposed to extreme heat. you'll be going thru sensors all the time. this could get annoying after a while.
10-19-05 | 06:11 AM
#11
Junior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7
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From: Earth
Originally Posted by enzo250
hey you guys can do what you want and use whichever sensor you please. i have used a bunch and would never use anything but an autronic b model wideband. So far nothing i've used is as good. Marcel if i was you i would rent the wideband from your dealer and use it to tune your car properly. Then if you want to get a wideband just for show in your dashboard you can get whatever you please. Remember rotary exhaust is very hot and innovate and other cheap widebands don't last to long when exposed to extreme heat. you'll be going thru sensors all the time. this could get annoying after a while.
You can always mount the sensor near tailpipe if you like..
10-20-05 | 02:46 AM
#12
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8
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From: Canada
Originally Posted by Jokeri
You can always mount the sensor near tailpipe if you like..
Yea you can but if you have any reversion happenning well you are gonna look like you are lean. The other thing is the closer to the source the less likely you will pull o2 from any gasket surface.
Guess the bottom line is no one here is saying that the autronic wideband is better or worse for actual readings but what I am saying is the autronic will work flawless with your autronic ecu everytime guaranteed but brand x may not.
10-29-05 | 09:56 AM
#13
Rebreaking things
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: 1 foot in Boston 1 in NJ
Interesting post off the Tech Edge Forum on this subject:
I have not had any experience with the Autronic wideband, but I have tested my 2b0 against a Motec wideband and got the exact same readings, so I know at least part of Peter's statement is accurate.
The 2b0 has a linear 0-5v output with a ground reference signal. I believe the later is what Ray is referring to in his post on 'corrected output.'
From: Peter Gargano <peter@...>
Date: Tue Sep 6, 2005 10:50 pm
Subject: Motec - Autronic - TechEdge 2D0 Comparison oz_diy_wb
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Send Email
I never like talking about the competition (do I?), but I thought I'd
give everyone some feedback from one of my customers who is using 2D0
with 6066 (Cost less than AU$500) and comparing it to a MoTec using a
6066 (PLM model maybe AU$2,000) and an Autronic with LSM-11 sensor
(their Model-A that's about AU$1,800 here + $250-$300 sensor)
----
The MoTec unit with the 5 wire sensor tested the same as your
unit although it was a bit slower and more dampened .. therefore
your unit may be better to pick up a miss-fire.
The Autronic unit is giving a richer signal by .02 on Lambda and
is heaps slower. This was with new sensor and new unit.
----
So, for a quarter the price, we're producing better results. The 2Do
uses the same basic technology as our other models.
What may be significant is the Autronic result. Perhaps the Autronic
model-A (which most people use) really does have a problem and their
autotune software works around this to the detriment of other sensor?
Peter
Date: Tue Sep 6, 2005 10:50 pm
Subject: Motec - Autronic - TechEdge 2D0 Comparison oz_diy_wb
Offline
Send Email
I never like talking about the competition (do I?), but I thought I'd
give everyone some feedback from one of my customers who is using 2D0
with 6066 (Cost less than AU$500) and comparing it to a MoTec using a
6066 (PLM model maybe AU$2,000) and an Autronic with LSM-11 sensor
(their Model-A that's about AU$1,800 here + $250-$300 sensor)
----
The MoTec unit with the 5 wire sensor tested the same as your
unit although it was a bit slower and more dampened .. therefore
your unit may be better to pick up a miss-fire.
The Autronic unit is giving a richer signal by .02 on Lambda and
is heaps slower. This was with new sensor and new unit.
----
So, for a quarter the price, we're producing better results. The 2Do
uses the same basic technology as our other models.
What may be significant is the Autronic result. Perhaps the Autronic
model-A (which most people use) really does have a problem and their
autotune software works around this to the detriment of other sensor?
Peter
The 2b0 has a linear 0-5v output with a ground reference signal. I believe the later is what Ray is referring to in his post on 'corrected output.'
10-30-05 | 01:28 AM
#14
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 615
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From: Richland Wa.
I realize that the Autronic analysers are expensive but they work so well with the autotune feature that you will save lots of money in dyno time and you still end up with a scientific quality instrument. I have used many other brands but have grown to love my b model and will use nothing else now... If you guy's still have problems with the money thing, just buy your cheap WB and some extra dyno time and manual tune the fuel maps...
All I know is that with my model b and a good steady state dyno, I can nail my target A/F's within 1/2 of 1% in about a half an hour not counting cool down time. From a tuners standpoint the unit will pay for itself within the first two cars tuned.
I love my model B and will never go back.
Autronic rules!
Justin
www.alienauto.com
All I know is that with my model b and a good steady state dyno, I can nail my target A/F's within 1/2 of 1% in about a half an hour not counting cool down time. From a tuners standpoint the unit will pay for itself within the first two cars tuned.
I love my model B and will never go back.
Autronic rules!
Justin
www.alienauto.com
11-04-05 | 05:36 AM
#17
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,306
Likes: 1
From: lebanon
Originally Posted by a7r
Rice, what happened to your Innovate love?
The innovate does work and works well (in LM-1 form with Autronic cable) I have proved it many times and it gives exactly same numbers as my B model Autronic both with LSM-11 and NTK L1H1 sensor ....... only problem is you need my bank of experience to over come potential heat problems (Innovate specific problem).
For a day in day out instrument with excelent features you cant realy compare the two of them, hence my comment on chosing the Autronic
