Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

So after reading a bunch of information on aux injection (seems like everyone is jumping on the band wagon) I decided to build my own kit. I'll tell you what i have in mind and if anyone has any further ideas or advice I'm all ears.

I decided to go with water injection for these main reasons.
1) The system design I'm using is mechanical and should have a lower chance of failing
2) Water is free/easily attainable
3) My car is mainly a street car and i'm just looking for a bit more boost with the added reliability of AUX injection
4) I'm cheap and like to do things myself

The system I have in mind is preturbo WI, it will use boost pressure rather then a pump to deliver the water. A 1+ gallon container. The system will incorporate a hobbs pressure switch. (does anyone else make these kinds of switches?) A filter and an Air Atomizing Nozzles part # SUE18A. It has a working pressure between 3-40psi and flows 200cc of water @ 20 psi. And atomizes the water very well. I'll probably also add a low water level buzzer or warning light.

The advantage of preturbo is it helps atomize the water, cools the intake temps a bit more, and also shifts the turbo compressor map over making it react like a larger turbo and having higher efficiency at higher boost levels.

Questions: Will 200 cc be enough water to adequately suppress detonation/knock?

Is there anything i'm missing or should address?

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

I'm now considering going with the SUE18 nozzle instead of the sue18A. the air caps are the same but the fluid cap is a bit larger. Which increases the flow from 200cc @ 20 psi to 380cc @ 20 psi. I could always turn the water flow down with a needle or ball valve, but my peak flow will be increased. I think it might work a little better.

Here is the technical charts on the nozzles I'm looking at.
http://www.spray.com/cat70/f/F16.html

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

I think personally that 200CC of water is on the low end. I used two nozzle setups in my car (350cc, and 675cc) and got my best results, without breakup or extremely cold EGT's mind you, with the 675 nozzle.

I'd think around 300-400cc would be a good rate to spray preturbo, but I've not experimented with that location yet so I'm no expert on that one. ( I do plan to try two nozzle's next year, a 175 pre turbo, and the 350 post turbo and hope for the same EGT's as the 675 post turbo only)

I think its a good plan so far.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Thanks for the response. I started feeling the same about the 200 cc being a bit low. I figured i could drill it out then saw the larger nozzle. Now i just need to figure out all the part numbers on their page. It seems they have different numbers for the same thing with no pictures to confirm it's what i want

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

does anyone know of any other air atomizing nozzles that i could use? The one's i'm looking at are a bit expensive i think and i'm confused as to what it actually comes with. What i'm looking for is a low pressure nozzle that has both a fluid input and air. to help atomize the water at lower pressure. thanks.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

'can't help you on the nozzle but 300-600 CC/Min sounds right and 200 is on the low side. obviously the more CC the less atomisation give a constant pressure. however atomisation just might really happen as a by-product of going thru the compressor. big time.

i wish you good luck and hope you can accomplish something similar to Rice.

thanks for sharing on this interesting project.

howard

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Thank you Howard. I decided the larger nozzle nozzle would be better also, the main reason I was concerned about proper atomization at the nozzle is to prevent compressor wheel damage. After it goes through the compressor wheel it will certainly further be atomized.

I'm trying to make the system as mechanical, and reliable as possible as I plan on tuning up with the water injection and can't afford for it to fail. Eliminating the pump, I feel makes this home kit much more reliable. I will have a hobbs pressure switch and a solenoid to make the system more ON/OFF. I wish there was a way to make this part of it mechanical as well, but a mechanical boost controlled valve would have more of a progressive on which I don't want. I will have a system light that will illuminate once the hobbs switch is activated. I'll keep everyone updated with progress.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Small update, I ordered my tank from usplastics.com it was just under $20 with shipping. It's 4 quarts, 9.842” x 8.632” x 4.173” with side mounting tabs. Will be similar to the one in the right of this pic.


I also ordered my air atomizing nozzle w/ 1/4" body from www.ispray.com it's part number 1/4J+sue18. First part is the body and second part is the nozzle. I also could have ordered it with 1/8" NPT threads instead of 1/4". The nozzle flows 380cc @ 20 psi and should be about perfect at that level. It's costly at $70 including shipping. Here's what it looks like.


Lastly I ordered my boost pressure switch, I ordered it from a meth/water injection place, for $19 shipped. It has both normally opened, and normally closed contacts so it has more configurations then a Hobbs switch. It's adjustable from 2 psi to 25 psi. I'll probably have it come on around 7 psi.


I'm still looking for a good solenoid to use. does anyone know where I can find something like this?


If I can't find something by the time everything comes in i'll use my spare nitrous solenoid. The only other things I need are an LED, and the lines/fittings which I'll get locally if I dont already have it.

slo

iTrader: (1)

I used a delrin solenoid from mcmaster carr for 41 dollars: 7876K18, it has BUNA seals, with SS internals, 1/4 by 1/4.

If you look around, some of the selenoid manufacturers websites (there are several) will send you a free sample.

Barry Bordes

Dude,
Most WI houses have those valves. Here is the $39 one from Coolingmist.
http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmain.aspx?pid=11

The only possible problem that I see is putting 20 psi on those plastic tanks. If you must than use the most round model and mount it in a cool place. If you remember Rice uses aluminum tanks.

Barry

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Thanks for the information. I thought about the problem of plastic not being able to withstand the pressure also. I'll test it prior to installing everything and hopefully it will stand up to 20 psi. If they are the same type containers i've seen before they are actually pretty stout. My other option will be a radiator overflow tank from an e36. They are plastic and hold high pressures as they are built into the radiator system. I want to use something i can easily see the water level so the aluminum tank is out.

slo

iTrader: (1)

Might have mentioned this before but a good cheap pressure container is a pressurised paint can from a cheap china paint setup, they come in quart through 1 gallon sizes, have fittings and are either alum or plated steel.

Of course you can't see the level, my friend setup a water injection system in a cummins powered truck using one of these with a similar design. Of course he is running 60 psi so the dynamic is a little different.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Well I did a little pre testing using a one gallon mobile one container. I drilled a hole in the cap and threaded a tire valve into it. I slowing upped the pressure checking each time with a tire gauge how much pressure was in the container. I got to 15 psi and took a 5 minute break to prepare myself for a loud BOOM, and maybe a slight bit of pain, as the container was definitely Ballooning. Once I got my **** together, I went ahead and upped the pressure up to 23 psi. Amazingly it held, I stopped there figuring that was enough to satisfy my curiosity. While not the same as the container I purchased, the plastic is much thinner with the mobile1, therefore if the cheap Mobile 1 plastic container held, I feel confident the one I got will hold even better.
Maybe later I'll put some ear plugs in and see just how far the mobile1 container will go before it pops. Here is a picture of the mobile1 container with 23 psi in it.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

being a nothing but Mobil One user since 1983 i like your choice of containers. sounds like a fun bit of research.

jkstill

iTrader: (11)

If you've seen the show 'Time Warp" on the Discovery channel, you've probably seen them blow up soda bottles with dry ice.

It takes a lot of pressure to blow up a plastic bottle.

Soda bottles are PET (Polyethylene Terephthalate) plastic. That stuff has an amazingly high tensile strength - 30k PSI IIRC.

The Mobile 1 bottle is probably the same kind of stuff. It might take more than 23 PSI to blow it up.

The US Plastics tanks are also polyethylene, though it doesn't say if they are PET.
Maybe the same thing, no doubt very tough stuff.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Yeah I experimented awhile back with dry ice around the intercooler, and we took a few chunks shoved them in soda containers with water and watched them explode. Then the cops showed up and we had to explain why someone called about gun shots. The cops actually got a kick out of it when we explained what we did.

Myth busters had some kind of tests on soda containers and launching them into the air. it's been awhile so I don't recall the results but they were quite surprising.

Barry Bordes

Dude, I like your tests. You are not afraid to think.

Are you going to use two solenoids to control the air and water or just let the air bleed continuously?

Barry

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

Haha thanks.

Just one solenoid on the water end, and possibly a check valve on the pressure line to insure the pressure in the tank doesn't push water back into where I tap into the boost source. (I don't know if it would, I think it may just push the air back provided its tapped into the top of the container.) I will first try without a check valve to keep things simple.

bzwigart

iTrader: (9)

Thank you for providing the details of your build. Looking forward to seeing it completed and the results.

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

I've had all my parts in for a couple weeks but I had to replace my turbo due to my previous turbo's compressor wheel turning into smaller pieces. My new turbo, a master power t70 came in today, and as soon as I source some braided stainless for my drain line will have that installed. Hopefully I can locate some tomorrow.

I also picked up some hose barb fittings for the WI kit. I'll get the kit installed after the turbo is in and I adjust the fuel maps for the slightly larger turbo. Provided everything goes smoothly hopefully I can have the WI kit in and some testing done by next week.

The nozzle I ordered is very high quality and should work very well. The Tank is very rigid and I think should hold the boost with no issues. The cap that came with it was vented so i sealed up the little hole in it tonight. The pressure switch is cheap looking, but looks like it should work just fine. I like that it has both normally open and normally closed contacts which gives it more options for wiring, though i can't think of anything I would want to turn off with WI on... so maybe it's just a useless option. oh well nice to have it anyway.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

good luck, we are all quite interested in your project.

hc

RedBaronII

iTrader: (4)

Any update or photos of the install???

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

I have the new turbo in, my intercooler comes back from being flushed tomorrow. It took awhile for my drainline to get here. Once i get it all back together i'll update on the wi. Soon i promise.

RedBaronII

iTrader: (4)

Why did you have it flushed, did you drill into it for an injector, BOV, dirt or blow by oil contamination???

I'm in the Plano area where are you located???

Dudemaaanownsanrx7

iTrader: (23)

No my previous turbo had the compressor wheel contact the compressor cover and i wanted to make sure the metal fragments were cleaned out. I live in brenham tx which is between houston and austin. Close to college station.