im looking at two dif options to do my 7. ive looked into things about single turbo but not a lot about the bnrs. im just pretty much wondering which one is going to be more reliable if either and if the bnrs require as many supporting mods. also do you need cores for them? any advice will help maybe someone else that has debated this also. anyways im going to research it but if youve got any input id like to hear it.

thanks guys

 

It depends on your budget and goals and uses for the car. Pump gas only?

You are supposed to do that before starting a thread!
This has been discussed many times. Please read through the existing threads first.

 

1) The BNRs running sequentially will require the sequential control system (aka the rats nest) in at least the simplied sequential setup. You *could* run it in non-sequential mode, but in that case you should have bought a single. So in the case of the BNRs you'll have more solenoids and stuff that has to work properly. But the turbos themselves are probably similar in reliability.

2) They will both require supporting fuel and tuning mods according to the HP output. SO if you're looking for a number, say, 350rwhp, there is no difference.

The BNRs will require much less custom fitment since they are bolt-ins and singles require a kit of stuff like a manifold, downpipe, and intake piping. In that regard the BNRs are more simple.

3) Yes, you need a good stock core to make BNRs. BNR has good cores for a reasonable price, last I heard.

4) Many discussions in the past about these BNR 3s. Run your search on user Goodfella_FD3S and you'll find plenty. I think he's jumped in on every BNR thread that's gone by here, so that should put you right in the middle of all the good information.

Dave

 

I do have a quick question about spool time with full non-sequential, if I may throw that into this thread. I currently have a perfectly functional seq system, but am planning on going with BNRs soon, and have been thinking of running non-seq. Everyone talks about the slow spool of non-seq, and compared to the seq twins that may be, but how would it compare to a moderately sized single?

 

Lenny, if you have full exhaust mods and true non-sequential, you will have similar lag to a medium-size single turbo. A T4 GT35/40 would probably spool faster (but cost more).

I can tell you that the BNRs are pretty fun sequentially....15 psi from 3000-8000 rpm....

 

^Got a chart yet?

I haven't seen a chart with twins and good torque that high

 

GT35/40 hits target boost approx 400rpm sooner than the BNRs non-seq (my car compared to a mates on a Dyno Dynamics dyno).

 

Thats not too bad at all. I know everyone has their own reason why they want to stay sequential or not, so I dont want to get into that whole arguement. Could you post your BNR dyno chart? if not, could you at least let us know at what RPM you reach max boost, and what that boost level is?

 

Alright, I was waiting to start a thread, but I'll post a dyno sheet here...

This is at 13-13.5 psi with:

*mild streetport
*BNR Stage 3 sequential
*intake
*res midpipe
*RB exhaust
*PFS SMIC
*9 plugs all around
*HKS TP

I had ignition breakup. The car is tuned for very safe running on 91 octane - conservative timing and AFRs in the high 10s:1.





As you can see, I probably would have made 5-8 more rwhp without breakup and it holds that power from 6500-8000 rpm. Given my increase in rwhp per psi, I would estimate that I will make 370-375 rwhp at 15 psi with a very safe and conservative tune. The turbos and engine should last a long time at those power levels. I also have water injection to further reduce chance of detonation. I will probably only run 10-11 psi at the track -- while still making 308-320 rwhp.

If I went ***** out and ran 17-18 psi on 100 octane, I should be able to hit 400 rwhp with a safe conservative tune. But I don't run 100 octane on the street, so it ain't gonna happen right now.

 

rynberg, the twin power didnt help with the breakup??? would wires help? just wondering

 

it sux that your in CA ahhh to have 94 at the pump hahaha

 

Easier just to view my post on this other thread as I posted the dyno chart

Currently it hits full boost 1.15bar at around 5.2k rpm on the road, because of the 0.3bar pressure drop across my intercooler the turbos are maxed out (around 1.4bar). Change of intercooler should mean that I'll be running around the 20psi mark - where the turbine housing is maxed out. Being RHD I have a more restrictive downpipe than you guys have, hopefully the larger diameter downpipe will help me a bit.

 

rynberg,

BNR Stage-III, nice! I've been eagerly awaiting dyno plots that prove they make significant more power than the stock twins. You wouldn't happen to have a dyno plot from your stock twins, would you?

Also, do you have STD or SAE corrected numbers for the BNR dyno run? Just curious to see how the cold ambient temps (64.60F) affect the numbers...

 

I guess not. The problem is the rich mixture necessary to run higher levels of boost with a conservative tune on 91 octane. Changing to 10EIX plugs will solve the breakup problem, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I never dynoed the stock twins with significant mods....if you want to see my 255 rwhp plot running bolt-ons on the stock ecu...I could dig it up for you....

No, I don't have SAE numbers for the run...I'm sure the numbers would be a little bit lower. I also don't have printouts of several of the runs at different boost levels and stages of tune. Kind of wish I did, but multiple-car tuning sessions get a little hectic.

 

Tyler, those are some good numbers and spool up times. I bet thats one fun ride.

 

Why only 10-11 at the track? If the **** doesn't blow up on the dyno it isn't gonna blow up on the track...

 

No, but it's easier to manage. Believe me, i know...

 

Doesn't sound like you've spent much time on a road course in an FD....

On cool/cold track days (not too many of those in Cali), I may try running 13-14 psi and see how it goes.

 

he's in maryland...the last track day i went to at button willow the track temp was 110 on average. thats an FD's worst nightmare!

 

Nice numbers . That's great power below 4k!

IMHO, I would only go with the BNR's if:

1) You want serious low end power (<4k) and you keep them sequential
or
2) You want to keep an emissions legal FD (both visual, and with the sniffer)

Other than that, just go single. Although these make respectable horsepower in non-sequential, there is no more performance gain than compared to a small/medium size single turbo. Even the cost is very similar.

 

Thanks. I agree with both of your reasons 100%. My car is no longer a daily driver, but I do still auto-x with it (not competively, but for fun) and I enjoy low-end on the street. If I wasn't worried about emissions hassles though, I would have an A-spec T4-GT35/40 on the car right now. A smaller to medium single turbo makes much more sense than twins (seq or non-seq) for a mostly track car, which my car is slowly migrating towards.

 

I lived in Los Angeles for 5 years from 99-04 so yes I do know what heat is about and I tracked ( drag and road ) not to mention essentially DD'd my FD unless it was raining for 3 of those years. I guess if you're confident in a set-up and tune you're confident. I didn't pop a motor till I moved out here. And of course I dont run a FMIC just a large SMIC which helps, but I never had cooling problems even doing canyon runs and through the mountains.

 

hey moehler thanks a lot for sticking to the topic and answering my question. i really appreciate it and i think im probably going to go with a single set up like the gt35r that one seems pretty popular.

 

another thing that i have learned is bnr wants you to use non-synthetic oil, and i have switch to synthetic and the engine seems to love it. i was maybe gonna go bnr but now i think im gonna go big single, due to the oil that you have to use.

 

Nice Numbers!! sounds like a damn fine ride!!! Looks like they hit pretty hard...~280rwtq

Honest question...why stay in the 10's A:F, and use WI? The much extra fuel can cool the chamber plenty, seems the only thing water is doing is taking away energy...well, and taking away the carbon build up from that rich mixture.

second time I hear you mention this turbo