Why Would Anyone Do a 20B Conversion?!
11-30-04, 12:51 PM
#154
Spanking Pcars
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: DFW area
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Louis M
......I never like to point to this, but just remember that I've been learning and sharing for twice as long as you have on this site.
11-30-04, 09:26 PM
#163
Full Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by David Hayes
FYI - I'm typing this message from Cam's PC at Pettit Racing, waiting to pick up my car. We'll soon see if the 3 rotor conversion was worth it!
11-30-04, 09:59 PM
#164
Originally Posted by Cgotto6
...It's going to have an aluminum small block 427 puttin out 512hp. An all aluminum frame, it will be under 3000lbs, and have many other tid bits which will make it among supercar status....
11-30-04, 11:22 PM
#166
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by ruos
The bowtie had to, because Ford's Cobra was breathing down their back.
04-04-05, 11:51 AM
#167
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Crossville, Tennessee
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well
I've rather skimmed through this thread, and I've not checked the dates BUT..
Why would anyone do a 20b conversion..
I'd probably have to say that they are 1, Rotorard*ER* Rotary fans, and 2, Don't mind adding wieght to their 7 as long as it happens to be Rotary weight.
From my experiance, it's alot easier to make a case Modded 20b VS Modded LS1.
The LS1 is a Piston engine and most of it's internals are easier to reinforce than said 20b and the LS1 wieghs less, and has more Naturally aspirated Potential than the 20b.
I read in a seperate thread that the 20b conversion on Davids car made ~320 horses at the rear wheels @ 6 psi... A LS1 @ 6 PSI would probably turn closer to 380 horses at the rearwheels.. I guess the displacement is hard to replace.
Many would argue that the wieght of an LS1 plus a turbo kit would negate any wieght + power adantage over a 13b-rew. In this case I could point out the fact that Head + Cam + Bolt on LS1's on the stock Shortblock have been known to make ~450 Rwhp in the Fbody community.
I would refer you to the AFR website, but my own experiance building a full weight 'street' WS6 gives credence to AFR's claims .. We pulled 12.05's on the street with street tires ( we marked out a quarter mile on a nice straight back road and chrono'd it ) street tires with some traction issues, and high 11's (11.49 on my stopwatch ) with drag radials. I was impressed as the car wieghed at least 3685 pounds, as that number is 3500 ( what I've seen to be stock LS1 Fbody Curb weight ) + 185 pounds ( what Brian weighed when he ran the car )
My hand dandy formula for HP from those numbers { hp = weight / (ET / 5.825)to the third } gives me a ballpark figure of 443 rwhp, which if multiplied by 1.15 (1.15 = rear wheel horsepower + the average 15 percent you lose turning the drivetrain ) gave me a 509 horsepower number, which is lower than the site says, but then again we are 1950 feet above sea level...
The best part was, we where running pump gas and had no detonation whatsoever on the cheapest 91 octane we could find ( which was 1.70 at the time, which is chhhhheeeap now ).
The 'performance mods' to the engine where headers, flowmasters ( already present when he bought the car ) plus the AFR heads, and a FAST intake manifold... The HEADS + Manifold came in somewhere around 2900 shipped from our pals at Scoggin Dickey I say pals because we sure called them alot
We did a few 'insurance' modifications to make sure the heads stayed down.. a nice set of ARP headstuds which was a little over 245 bux shipped but well worth it, a set of ARP MAIN STUDS which we paid well over what that link states, but again was well worth it... replaced the Lifters with the Comp R units they suggested and the Valve springs with the AFR parts.. Replaced the stock injectors with GTP 38 pound units ( as the stock units are great, but run 98-100% duty cycle with LS6 heads, cam and intake making 400 or so Flywheel horsies and making every attempt to avoid running lean is something I'm sure you guys can relate to ) and replaced the Stock Fuel pump with a Walbro 255 GPM unit.. The fuel maps got retuned by a dear friend with an unlocked ( meaning he could tune multiple pcms ) LS1edit plus a moser 12 bolt out back with 3.23's ( for drivability, so I was told.. ).
Back to topic, we built a what is considered a slow car in terms of drag racing, but he's all into popping idiots in Mitsu's and other 'fast' imports but the said LS1 would rock in a 7 and would be far more reliable and would probably require less maintence or 'babying'.. I can say that Brian has put quiet a few miles on his car since all the work, and hasn't found it wanting power or reliability wise.. and it's getting decent MPG numbers (he says, but then 17/22 is good for what he's packing ) .
I don't see WHY you would want a 20b, because you could do the same work we did and end up with more power naturally aspirated and less wieght, and no worrys about popping a seal and having your turbo break, or trash the engine.. and If you really wanted a turbo so badly you could easily kit the stock LS1 out and make more power on what you guys seem to consider rediculously low boost [rotary enthusiast]10 psi for 450 RWHP? and you get torque as well? whaa?[/rotary enthusiast] on the modded engine, such as we built you could see ~700 rwhp on 10 psi... easily more as the engine would be much more forgiving of say, a larger cam with forced induction..
I understand you have a prefrence, but power is power...
Why would anyone do a 20b conversion..
I'd probably have to say that they are 1, Rotorard*ER* Rotary fans, and 2, Don't mind adding wieght to their 7 as long as it happens to be Rotary weight.
From my experiance, it's alot easier to make a case Modded 20b VS Modded LS1.
The LS1 is a Piston engine and most of it's internals are easier to reinforce than said 20b and the LS1 wieghs less, and has more Naturally aspirated Potential than the 20b.
I read in a seperate thread that the 20b conversion on Davids car made ~320 horses at the rear wheels @ 6 psi... A LS1 @ 6 PSI would probably turn closer to 380 horses at the rearwheels.. I guess the displacement is hard to replace.
Many would argue that the wieght of an LS1 plus a turbo kit would negate any wieght + power adantage over a 13b-rew. In this case I could point out the fact that Head + Cam + Bolt on LS1's on the stock Shortblock have been known to make ~450 Rwhp in the Fbody community.
I would refer you to the AFR website, but my own experiance building a full weight 'street' WS6 gives credence to AFR's claims .. We pulled 12.05's on the street with street tires ( we marked out a quarter mile on a nice straight back road and chrono'd it ) street tires with some traction issues, and high 11's (11.49 on my stopwatch ) with drag radials. I was impressed as the car wieghed at least 3685 pounds, as that number is 3500 ( what I've seen to be stock LS1 Fbody Curb weight ) + 185 pounds ( what Brian weighed when he ran the car )
My hand dandy formula for HP from those numbers { hp = weight / (ET / 5.825)to the third } gives me a ballpark figure of 443 rwhp, which if multiplied by 1.15 (1.15 = rear wheel horsepower + the average 15 percent you lose turning the drivetrain ) gave me a 509 horsepower number, which is lower than the site says, but then again we are 1950 feet above sea level...
The best part was, we where running pump gas and had no detonation whatsoever on the cheapest 91 octane we could find ( which was 1.70 at the time, which is chhhhheeeap now ).
The 'performance mods' to the engine where headers, flowmasters ( already present when he bought the car ) plus the AFR heads, and a FAST intake manifold... The HEADS + Manifold came in somewhere around 2900 shipped from our pals at Scoggin Dickey I say pals because we sure called them alot
We did a few 'insurance' modifications to make sure the heads stayed down.. a nice set of ARP headstuds which was a little over 245 bux shipped but well worth it, a set of ARP MAIN STUDS which we paid well over what that link states, but again was well worth it... replaced the Lifters with the Comp R units they suggested and the Valve springs with the AFR parts.. Replaced the stock injectors with GTP 38 pound units ( as the stock units are great, but run 98-100% duty cycle with LS6 heads, cam and intake making 400 or so Flywheel horsies and making every attempt to avoid running lean is something I'm sure you guys can relate to ) and replaced the Stock Fuel pump with a Walbro 255 GPM unit.. The fuel maps got retuned by a dear friend with an unlocked ( meaning he could tune multiple pcms ) LS1edit plus a moser 12 bolt out back with 3.23's ( for drivability
, so I was told.. ).Back to topic, we built a what is considered a slow car in terms of drag racing, but he's all into popping idiots in Mitsu's and other 'fast' imports but the said LS1 would rock in a 7 and would be far more reliable and would probably require less maintence or 'babying'.. I can say that Brian has put quiet a few miles on his car since all the work, and hasn't found it wanting power or reliability wise.. and it's getting decent MPG numbers (he says, but then 17/22 is good for what he's packing ) .
I don't see WHY you would want a 20b, because you could do the same work we did and end up with more power naturally aspirated and less wieght, and no worrys about popping a seal and having your turbo break, or trash the engine.. and If you really wanted a turbo so badly you could easily kit the stock LS1 out and make more power on what you guys seem to consider rediculously low boost [rotary enthusiast]10 psi for 450 RWHP? and you get torque as well? whaa?[/rotary enthusiast] on the modded engine, such as we built you could see ~700 rwhp on 10 psi... easily more as the engine would be much more forgiving of say, a larger cam with forced induction..
I understand you have a prefrence, but power is power...
04-04-05, 01:09 PM
#169
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Originally Posted by herblenny
I'll have one RICED out sleeper,.... Sleeper.. I'm going to put neons, ugliest body kit I could find, stickers, and chrome rims... so that people would think its a slow riced out car...
You crack me up Phill
04-04-05, 01:35 PM
#170
Originally Posted by danmc77
By the way, that price is WITH installation. Full exhaust and all. It handles better too.
handling better is all relative. i was talking to the people from Skip Barber driving school while i was at the USGP last year, and they have used Vipers for a while now, started out with the old GTS's and now they're using the SRT-10's. i had heard that Vipers are punishing cars to drive, and very twitchy at that. When i asked them which vipers they liked bettter, the GTS or the SRT-10, they said the SRT-10 hands down. they said that the GTS was a bear to drive, heavy, hard to get to change directions, snapped into oversteer unexpectedly, and they kept on going on for about five minutes on all the improvements that Dodge has made to it. Now, if i wanted something with 8.0 Liters (i assume that the 36k you were quoting was for a GTS or RT/10), i sure as hell wouldn't spend 36k on a viper. I'd spend it on a 454 Stringray 'Vette. ya, the viper can pull over 1g on the skidpad from the factory, but like Jimlab stated earlier, the skidpad is just a measure of the tire's overall grip. a better handling car? if you drive in circles all day, yes, but if you wanna go and pound down the backroads and have fun (i.e. not have to wrestle the car to switch from a left-to-right turn), then the 7 is the only way to go.
04-04-05, 01:44 PM
#171
Originally Posted by Louis M
its funny about the relationship of post count to how good of an answer is given...
0-300 posts:
The RX-7 is better because it has a rotary! Yeah!
301-8623:
The RX-7 is better because it has the rare factor.
8624:
The Corvette Rocks. The RX-7 Rocks. I will combine both.... if I ever finish
0-300 posts:
The RX-7 is better because it has a rotary! Yeah!
301-8623:
The RX-7 is better because it has the rare factor.
8624:
The Corvette Rocks. The RX-7 Rocks. I will combine both.... if I ever finish
04-04-05, 02:46 PM
#173
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kansas City, Mo
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
some people are just a little more financially secure. If i was that loaded, and had 35k ldying around, you bet your sweet *** id do it. Hell, if i won the lotary, id have scoot make me a 4 rotor!!!
I second the uniqueness factor too.
I second the uniqueness factor too.
04-04-05, 03:29 PM
#174
Super Snuggles
Originally Posted by whitey85mtu
by the way jim, do you not want to finish your car, or are you such an obsessive-compulsive perfectionist that you keep on finding more and more stuff to tinker with, thus extending the project indefinately?
