Louis M

I didn't start this thread to start ****, I was just wondering, why would someone pay that much at one point when someone can reach similar performace for less price on a newer and more reliable car... Just remember one problem with me bringing up the M3 is that its not at its max power, and it is still very reliable at that point... the 3rotor w/ 500whp is not reliable at all

jimlab

Not on street tires, there aren't. Look at the trap speed.

Louis M

I didn't think they were on street tires... are they?

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Louis,

As a person getting ready to start a 20B project, I'll throw in couple of words..

Like others have said.. modded 13B FD could out handle most new sports cars out there.. And that's at cost of about 20-25K (car w/fully mods). As we know, M3's are heavy and expensive.. and 911's.. well, I'm not sure how reliable they are compare to 7's.. I've seen about 3 newer 911's stranded on the high way in past 2 years in Bham..

Far as 20B.. you are talking about alot of power.. lets look at Red-RX7's car.. Made 600+HP.. Took out a Viper.. its streetable to a point and weigh just above stock 13b.... maybe less..

My expected cost for my 20B conversion using what I already have is about 15-20K (+ upgraded tranny, axles, wheels, and diff). Its not a drop in kind of mods but I think at the end, I'll have one RICED out sleeper,.... Sleeper.. I'm going to put neons, ugliest body kit I could find, stickers, and chrome rims... so that people would think its a slow riced out car.. But w/ 20b, I'm sure I could probably take most modded cars out there.

I was kidding about the neons..

Rx-7Addict

iTrader: (2)

I can think of several people i know personally or on this forum who have an FD as their sports car and a really nice BMW for their daily driver.... even a supercharged M3 with over 400hp is going to have serious trouble keeping up with a 20b or single turbo FD

Louis M

Corvette Z06 (45k) + ATI Procharger = 650hp

Corvettes handle better and it would be a new car and more reliable...

danmc77

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have the RX7, but some of the things you guys are saying is ridiculous. If you you put $40,000 into something like a mustang, you'd have a damn fast car. You wouldn't have to spend over $100,000 to find something that would compete with a single turbo 3-rotor. Yeah it's a freakin' fast car, but there are plenty of cars that would give you similar results. Hell, if you put that much into a Neon you could make it a 10sec car!

I'm not flaming 3-rotor fans, I think it's cool too, but I'm not sure it's worth the money.

I can't wait to see the responses to this line:

If I were to spend $ to make my FD as fast as possible, I'd spend half that amount on an american V8 like JimLab. A V8 doesn't need nearly as much massaging to produce that power.

I love my 2-rotor though.

Rx-7Addict

iTrader: (2)

dbl

Rx-7Addict

iTrader: (2)

Some would argue the FD handles better... both pull around .98 G around the skidpad.

I dont know how much the ATI procharger costs, but lets say reasonably its like 15k? Thats still $60k for a car that will have 650hp and about 3100lbs.

You can buy a nice, low mileage FD for $15k, rip the motor, add like 20k for all the 20b stuff ($35k is BS) and you are still just over half the cost of the vette.

Of course this is not factoring in the fact that every 50 year old with a mid life crisis drives the same car, Ive worked at a chevy dealership and I see it all the time...

Anyways, when you compare modded cars to modded cars there is a lot of grey area with whats better yadda yadda.....

RotorJoe

At some point you just have to say "to each his own," whichever route that may be.

Louis M

This sounds like it'll be a reasonable answer from a reasonable person

Red-RX7 has one of the fastest cars on this forum, the big problem is that most 20b conversions are not this fast... anyway, of course a 20b could take out a viper... but anyway, continuing on

Alright, so you plan on spending $15k right out for this. The question is, if you sold your car right now, how much could you make? Then you can determine the final price of this. One problem when people say they didn't spend 35k for this, they don't account for the total cost already spent...


Like the person said before me, I like 3-rotors, but I'm just not sure they're worth the money.

Louis M

The procharger is under 6k... Anyway, I guess its coming out to the whole to each his own bit...

plan9

gotta love how you skewed those numbers Show me where one can find a brand new M3, for 45k? And Turbos for an E46 for less than 10,000?

And who is going to pay 20k for an FD? Try 15k, and even IF you spent 35k for the 20b, installation, single turbo, and mods...you'd still be at the cost of a new, stock M3.

jimlab

Skid pad numbers don't indicate handling ability. They indicate lateral tire grip. Tires can be changed.

Louis M

A new M3 from a dealer is $47k... it doesn't take much at all to talk a dealer down to 43-44k... We got our 3-series for about 5k less than the dealer was asking...

Also, the only kit out right now is a supercharger system for the M3 which is 8.7k... so when the turbo kit comes out (soon), it'll be 10k MAX (that was the price of the turbo kit for the E36)

Anyway, there are many FD's for 15k but you need to realize that they need suspension work, etc.

Louis M

and jim, which handles better? (waiting for him to say corvette)

danmc77

A Viper.

patman

iTrader: (3)

there is something you need to take into consideration here:

it is a WHOLE SYSTEM. seems like all you guys argue one point or another, without considering any others. The major advantages of a 20B rx7 lie in 3 places: cost, style, and overall balanced performance.

A 20B FD can cost anywhere from 30-80k, but will outperform cars that cost 2-3 times that. A lot of people just like rx7s. they look good, they are very unique, and the rotary engine is just plain nice to drive. A 20B FD still has close to 25x4 weight dist, which no BMW ever had or will have. It has a very high power to weight ratio, much higher than all but a very few modded beamers. It has extraordinary handling, on par with vettes and exotics. It looks cool, is pretty comfortable, is easy to see out of, etc. As for reliability, a 20B is signifigantly more reliable than a similar 13B, for obvious reasons.

What this all pans out to is that it is the all around performance which makes it so attractive. basically you are getting a ferrari for 50k. while there are other cars that will outperform it in some qualitites, ther are few that can stack up when all angles are taken into consideration.

pat

20B Junkie

IMO, its a waste of money unless you can do most of it yourself. You could build a badass 13B with half of that money or less. There comes a point when pushing so much power is too much for the car and traction is a huge problem like someone already pointed out when pushing 600HP+, especially when it comes on so fast

akiratdk

I guess its up to personal preference... some people buy honda CRX's and put in 10 G's!!~~ into it sometimes.... to me... I think its dumb...but for them its pride I guess..

vchacon

I think it really comes down to personal choice... If I had the $$$ and time I would do a 20B on my FD. I would also never do a FI on my M3. Then again when the new z06 comes out I may sell the FD and buy one.... if I don't like it i may just take the leap and do a 20B. Whatever, I decided to do it'll be my choice. Just for reference I bought my FD for $11K in very good condition (55K). I have seen $6K-$7K cars with great suspension and blown engines.

moehler

iTrader: (12)

I think everyone has answered your qestion. The first, I added .


1) People can spend their money on whatever the f*ck they want, not everone needs to "understand" the persons motives... I never understand threads like this.

2) Amazing power and handling
3) We LOVE rotaries... a 20B is the *greatest* of them all
4) fd's are are rare and beautiful cars, why not max out its potential (while still keeping it rotary powered) if you have the money to spend.
5) Not many people are impressed by a M3 (myself ncluded), but are impressed by rare unique cars.

Louis M

handling? the best indicator of handling is balance... and its a joke comparing the balance of an rx-7 to the balance of a bmw... the bmw has, in my opinion, the finest balance of any car... thats why it was named the best handling car of all time by car and driver (i know it was an e36, but the e46 and the e36 are very similar in handling characteristics) even over ferraris and other supercars... bmws are notorious for balance. you can slap the hardest springs ever and put on slicks and it will turn like crazy... balance is where the bmw shines

the style of a car is very up in the air... some people love the look of the m3s, some love the look of the rx-7 (i am both )

the price is what we are discussing

comfort? the rx-7 is a shoebox and the m3 has four seats...

Louis M

1) i get that and i've said that already
2) if a car has better power and handling, why sacrifice?
3) okay, so you like the concept... and...
4) the main reason why people pimp out civics is they want a nicer car, yet can only pay for it in small incriments... in the same way, people who can pay for it in one incriment, shouldn't they skip the entire step of getting a civic
5) personal opinion

moehler

iTrader: (12)

that's a little harsh, don't you think? if you have the money but not the time to do it yourself (someone who works 50 hour weeks and has a family, etc...) why not pay someone else to do it? Not everyone has the time to build a custom 20B setup , and there is no reason to look down on someone that pays another person to do it.