What Makes The FD So Quick?
10-11-04 | 02:40 AM
#26
hahahahhahaahahah
this thread gave me a good laugh
thanks ....
truth is that with the stock turbos you can easily push 350+ RWHP with an IC, exhaust, PFC, and fuel pump/ bigger injectors. thats like $3-4000 and youve got a car with a better power to weight ratio then a 360 modena, dodge viper, z06, etc etc
this thread gave me a good laugh
thanks ....
truth is that with the stock turbos you can easily push 350+ RWHP with an IC, exhaust, PFC, and fuel pump/ bigger injectors. thats like $3-4000 and youve got a car with a better power to weight ratio then a 360 modena, dodge viper, z06, etc etc
10-11-04 | 02:53 AM
#28
Originally Posted by HKS SpiritR
Back then even the aluminum NSX stil weighs more slightly more than an FD. The key is of course that Wankel's creation, other than the design itself
10-11-04 | 11:10 AM
#32
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 0
From: Bimingham, AL
Originally Posted by KaiFD3S
The HP ratio of a rotary engine is not like a piston engine...like if you had 2 similar cars in weight, and body and both had 250hP one with a rotary and the other with a piston, the rotary will win..it may have 250HP but in the rotary world it means that I really dont know what I'm talking about....
Well, I tell ya what...I really agree with that last part of your post
haha
Stephen
Last edited by SPOautos; 10-11-04 at 11:12 AM.
10-11-04 | 11:22 AM
#34
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 0
From: Bimingham, AL
Well, kinda depends on how much the guy weights. If he's only 130 then that would give 2550 for the car by itself and I could easily see that, especially for a single turbo car running a SS exhaust manifold (I have no idea if he is single or not). My car was just a hair over 2600 bone stock with just intake and full exhaust, everything else was stock. That was with something like 1/4 tank of fuel.
By the time you rip out all the emmissions including air pump, if you ditch the p/s and a/c along with getting a mini battery it'll make a huge difference. I could see a single turbo car with all the stuff I just mentioned pulled off only being around 2500 or so.
Stephen
By the time you rip out all the emmissions including air pump, if you ditch the p/s and a/c along with getting a mini battery it'll make a huge difference. I could see a single turbo car with all the stuff I just mentioned pulled off only being around 2500 or so.
Stephen
Last edited by SPOautos; 10-11-04 at 11:24 AM.
10-11-04 | 11:42 AM
#35
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 22
From: CT
Originally Posted by SPOautos
Well, kinda depends on how much the guy weights. If he's only 130 then that would give 2550 for the car by itself and I could easily see that, especially for a single turbo car running a SS exhaust manifold (I have no idea if he is single or not). My car was just a hair over 2600 bone stock with just intake and full exhaust, everything else was stock. That was with something like 1/4 tank of fuel.
By the time you rip out all the emmissions including air pump, if you ditch the p/s and a/c along with getting a mini battery it'll make a huge difference. I could see a single turbo car with all the stuff I just mentioned pulled off only being around 2500 or so.
Stephen
By the time you rip out all the emmissions including air pump, if you ditch the p/s and a/c along with getting a mini battery it'll make a huge difference. I could see a single turbo car with all the stuff I just mentioned pulled off only being around 2500 or so.
Stephen
10-11-04 | 11:48 AM
#36
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 0
From: Bimingham, AL
Its a 1995 PEP, It was at a NHRA track on thier scales. I never went to another scale but if you add my weight to it and do the calculations it works out just about perfect for my 1/4 mile mph. I think the actual weight was 2614 if memory serves me correct, I had about 1/4 tank of fuel...maybe a hair less since I'd made a few runs. Fuel alone can make a big difference of over 100lbs.
Stephen
Stephen
10-11-04 | 12:02 PM
#37
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,923
Likes: 22
From: CT
jeeze no wonder u ran 12.3 with those simple mods----that was u right.
Anways my car is 94 pep with ac, sunroof, but no bose, with all the boltons and with a half tank of it weighed about 2750...no idea why the variance. any ideas?
edit: there is no way my m2 med ic weighs 150 lbs!
Anways my car is 94 pep with ac, sunroof, but no bose, with all the boltons and with a half tank of it weighed about 2750...no idea why the variance. any ideas?
edit: there is no way my m2 med ic weighs 150 lbs!
10-11-04 | 12:21 PM
#38
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,413
Likes: 0
From: Bimingham, AL
Well, I'm not sure what the 136lb difference would be. The M2 would add some but probably only 20lbs or so. The extra fuel would be around 35-40lbs difference. Not sure where the other 76 lbs is from. Maybe yours had a little more than 1/2 tank and mine had a little less than 1/4 that would start to add up fast. The weight of tires can change quite a lot from one tire to the other, that could start to add up. I'm sure we could come up with enough stuff to get it within 30lbs or so and that could just be a difference in scales or something. The A/c was changed in 1995 but I seriously doubt there is any weight difference between them. Could be some weight difference between aftermarket parts, I had a Pettit dp, mp, dual tip cat back and thier intake. The intake has no box and the exhaust is all ss.
Oh yea, I did have a Pettit front anti sway bar, dont know the weight difference between that and the stocker. That might have made a little difference too.
And yea, that day I ran a 12.3 @ 113 at 12psi of boost. I actually got on the scales at the end of that run.
Oh yea, I did have a Pettit front anti sway bar, dont know the weight difference between that and the stocker. That might have made a little difference too.
And yea, that day I ran a 12.3 @ 113 at 12psi of boost. I actually got on the scales at the end of that run.
Last edited by SPOautos; 10-11-04 at 12:23 PM.
10-11-04 | 01:24 PM
#39
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,639
Likes: 0
From: MIA
Plain and simple
Very few cars come with 4.10 gears stock.
Very few cars weigh in under 2800lbs stock.
Very few cars can even get the HP increase that a few mods does to an FD.
That pretty much sums it up.
STI/EVO/WRX vs FD = AWD means bad top end, and those cars are heavy compared to the FD ranging from 3200 to 3400 lbs.
M3 vs FD = LOL dont get me started, 345 hp but only 245 lbs of torque! Weighs over 3600 lbs!! Has good gearing (probably only positive thing). Good amount of drivetrain loss with SMG tranny.
Civic or any ricer vs FD = Do I even have to explain?
C5/Camaro/ Domestic vs FD = This is pretty even playing field for a modded FD. But any of these stock except maybe for the c5 will get beat by a MODDED FD, any of these modded will give an FD a run for its money.
SRT-4/GTI etc= SRT-4s are quick, but FWD means bad launches, use this to your advantage with any FWD car. GTI are pretty heavy as well.
So pretty much weight, gearing, and the mod to HP ratio makes the FD very quick.
Very few cars come with 4.10 gears stock.
Very few cars weigh in under 2800lbs stock.
Very few cars can even get the HP increase that a few mods does to an FD.
That pretty much sums it up.
STI/EVO/WRX vs FD = AWD means bad top end, and those cars are heavy compared to the FD ranging from 3200 to 3400 lbs.
M3 vs FD = LOL dont get me started, 345 hp but only 245 lbs of torque! Weighs over 3600 lbs!! Has good gearing (probably only positive thing). Good amount of drivetrain loss with SMG tranny.
Civic or any ricer vs FD = Do I even have to explain?
C5/Camaro/ Domestic vs FD = This is pretty even playing field for a modded FD. But any of these stock except maybe for the c5 will get beat by a MODDED FD, any of these modded will give an FD a run for its money.
SRT-4/GTI etc= SRT-4s are quick, but FWD means bad launches, use this to your advantage with any FWD car. GTI are pretty heavy as well.
So pretty much weight, gearing, and the mod to HP ratio makes the FD very quick.
10-11-04 | 02:17 PM
#40
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 32
From: Redmond, WA
Originally Posted by KaiFD3S
The HP ratio of a rotary engine is not like a piston engine...like if you had 2 similar cars in weight, and body and both had 250hP one with a rotary and the other with a piston, the rotary will win..it may have 250HP but in the rotary world it = more than a piston. this is due to the design of the car....
10-11-04 | 02:32 PM
#42
Da RX7 iz my Mistress
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
Originally Posted by matty
2680 with you in it? i call BS.
Dont forget the previous explanation of FD owners being as skinny as Ethiopians and weighing 50 lbs...it makes sense think about it
10-11-04 | 02:58 PM
#43
I think it reflects the mathematical equation:
rHP > pHP, or rHP = pHP+*
rHP > pHP, or rHP = pHP+*
Originally Posted by Icemastr
My thoughts exactly, took me 5 times of reading it to figure out what he was saying and it still doesn't make sense.
10-11-04 | 03:07 PM
#44
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 32
From: Redmond, WA
Originally Posted by Fatman0203
Very few cars come with 4.10 gears stock.
Required gearing is a function of the engine's torque characteristics. Enough gearing is required to multiply available torque to make the car streetable (i.e. not require a push or a hill to get rolling), as well as to get the engine quickly into its powerband (and keep it there). An engine with a lot of low end torque doesn't require as much gearing (the Dodge Viper GTS has a 3.07:1 differential, for example), and the more power you're making, the quicker you get into your powerband anyway, so you can get away with less gearing.
The FD requires 4.10 gears because the stock engine doesn't produce much torque, especially at lower rpm, and because it has a fairly narrow powerband, so it needs more gearing to counteract the weight and various losses to stay in that powerband. Without enough gearing, the engine would just bog, sort of like trying to start out from a dead stop in 2nd or 3rd gear.
Enough about gearing. If you're talking about acceleration, there are four things you need to consider; torque, gearing, weight, and losses. This has been discussed in great detail in a recent thread.
Simply put, the FD combines reasonably good power with good gearing for its engine's characteristics, very light weight, and great aerodynamics, and that's the secret to its speed. The Supra requires more power to offset its higher weight, but has great gearing for its engine characteristics, and good aerodynamics. A Z06 is faster than either because it has even higher power and great gearing, light weight, and very good aerodynamics. So there you have it.
Last edited by jimlab; 10-11-04 at 03:10 PM.
10-11-04 | 04:03 PM
#47
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,639
Likes: 0
From: MIA
Originally Posted by jimlab
Keep in mind that very few cars need 4.10 gears stock.
Required gearing is a function of the engine's torque characteristics. Enough gearing is required to multiply available torque to make the car streetable (i.e. not require a push or a hill to get rolling), as well as to get the engine quickly into its powerband (and keep it there). An engine with a lot of low end torque doesn't require as much gearing (the Dodge Viper GTS has a 3.07:1 differential, for example), and the more power you're making, the quicker you get into your powerband anyway, so you can get away with less gearing.
The FD requires 4.10 gears because the stock engine doesn't produce much torque, especially at lower rpm, and because it has a fairly narrow powerband, so it needs more gearing to counteract the weight and various losses to stay in that powerband. Without enough gearing, the engine would just bog, sort of like trying to start out from a dead stop in 2nd or 3rd gear.
Enough about gearing. If you're talking about acceleration, there are four things you need to consider; torque, gearing, weight, and losses. This has been discussed in great detail in a recent thread.
Simply put, the FD combines reasonably good power with good gearing for its engine's characteristics, very light weight, and great aerodynamics, and that's the secret to its speed. The Supra requires more power to offset its higher weight, but has great gearing for its engine characteristics, and good aerodynamics. A Z06 is faster than either because it has even higher power and great gearing, light weight, and very good aerodynamics. So there you have it.
Required gearing is a function of the engine's torque characteristics. Enough gearing is required to multiply available torque to make the car streetable (i.e. not require a push or a hill to get rolling), as well as to get the engine quickly into its powerband (and keep it there). An engine with a lot of low end torque doesn't require as much gearing (the Dodge Viper GTS has a 3.07:1 differential, for example), and the more power you're making, the quicker you get into your powerband anyway, so you can get away with less gearing.
The FD requires 4.10 gears because the stock engine doesn't produce much torque, especially at lower rpm, and because it has a fairly narrow powerband, so it needs more gearing to counteract the weight and various losses to stay in that powerband. Without enough gearing, the engine would just bog, sort of like trying to start out from a dead stop in 2nd or 3rd gear.
Enough about gearing. If you're talking about acceleration, there are four things you need to consider; torque, gearing, weight, and losses. This has been discussed in great detail in a recent thread.
Simply put, the FD combines reasonably good power with good gearing for its engine's characteristics, very light weight, and great aerodynamics, and that's the secret to its speed. The Supra requires more power to offset its higher weight, but has great gearing for its engine characteristics, and good aerodynamics. A Z06 is faster than either because it has even higher power and great gearing, light weight, and very good aerodynamics. So there you have it.
