The reason syn. oil is not recomended to be used in rotary engines is because these oils do NOT burn entirely and could coat your cat. with a film of ash.
Remember that rotaries mix oil and gas. If you give 3 ***** about your cats or passing emissions go ahead use syn. oils.
Again the factory manual recomends regular oil since they dont want the liability of people like us that buy a car and want to modify the **** out of it to make our car go beyond their intended uses...


Rotarius has left the building..

 

...and town before he gets flamed for his slander of synthetic oils. A far bigger problem with ash is caking your turbos, but some synthetics will ash even less than fossil oils.

|\/\e]-[ f1/-\m0!2z jO0, 2!!!!!!11

 

For those who aren't on the big list, this has been going on for years. FWIW, the original ban on synthetics in rotaries by Mazda came from an early formulation of Amsoil that did indeed leave deposits from not burning completely. This was conclusive, it wasn't a theory. However that was about 20 years ago so the particular test doesn't apply today. However, Mazda factory remans still contain a sticker saying the warrenty is voided if synthetic is used. There may not be a good reason for this, but maybe there is. Also note that most of the rotary racecars out there and race engine builders DO NOT run an OMP, they premix their gas instead. In this case ashing is not a concern, so keep that in mind. There is no doubt under extreme conditions synthetics provide far superior and very meaningful protection. Lastly, and most importantly, IMHO 3rd gen engines don't last long enough for wear and tear be a factor. I'd say 40% of all rebuilds are due to O-ring failure, 40% due to apex seal failure stemming from overboosting, running lean, running too much timing, or a combination of the 3, and just 20% resulting from actual wear and tear, ie 100k hard miles on boost. Since most of us are replacing our engines before they actually wear out, we should all concentrate on that instead.

 

Thanks Nathan Kwok for your wise words. I do use synthetic oils on my other cars.
And for the looks of my critic above"[yun-(s)kess;%((" ??he should not be worring about oil dilemmas but reaching puberty and becomming an actually usefull person on our society. You make our state a joke.

P.S. dont cack your turbos

 

Originally posted by Rotarius
Thanks Nathan Kwok for your wise words.
Translation: Thank you for agreeing with me. I thought I was all alone out there so I got scared and peed myself.

I do use synthetic oils on my other cars.


And for the looks of my critic above"[yun-(s)kess;%((" ??
Haha, you spelled it wrong!

he should not be worring about oil dilemmas but reaching puberty and becomming an actually usefull person on our society.
Update: I reached puberty. I'm halfway there!

You make our state a joke.
Mission complete! Now I can get on with my life.

P.S. dont cack your turbos
... or you'll flood my email server with pic requests.

-jon
The phrase, "Live before you die" has a double-meaning.

 

Cats? Who has cats? Most of the ash/non-burning issues were with formulas from way back when...truth of the matter is, they're vastly improved and Royal Purple specifically, will not leave deposits. Amsoil is one of the worst synths out there, verified in independent tests (performed by a local car club, think Bugatti, not Honda). There's startup and shutdown wear. When your car is not running, hot oil is baking on the turbine bearings. Nothing short of a better oil or a recirculator will keep oil from coking the bearings.

Synths allow your engine to run cooler and they free up hp to boot. As Nathan said, oil, if properly maintained, doesn't lead to engine failure. Ray Lochead at SR said he's never seen an oil-related failure from a properly maintained system. But if you do go a bit longer, synths do offer superior protection for a longer period of time and many, not all, offer more protection from dilution.

Over the long haul, I guess spending money on things such as oil cooler upgrades would have a more tangible effect on longevity than synths. I guess I'm just a marketing sucker though as it really does give me a bit more peace of mind. To each his own.
Michel

 

I have also noticed that M2 and Tri Point only sell Red Line oil. I'm at the conclusion that synthetic in no longer, if it ever was, a problem for the rotarys.

 

"Father bought it for me Nov2001 w/100K mi. for $8000 (Previous owner's wife made him sell it"

NOW I KNOW Where you get your Attitude!!!!!!!!
MAMA's BOY

It's funny you think your a BIG man HIDING behind your DAD's computer . I bet you never even opened your hood in your car. Let me Guess, your DADDY pays for all the work on it too. Becuase you still work at mickey D's flippin burgers. I bet you dont even know what the HELL you are driving.

I had to Flame because BOOK mechanics like you, have never done **** to their car, but yet tell other people how it's done.

 

It depends on the type of synthetic.
Generally, synthetic have more consistent molecular shapes than natural (fossil).

I think it's best to use natural based oils during an engine break-in period, then switch to synthetic afterwards (if one chooses).
You're not mashing on the throttle and the seals should seat better.

If you run premix (no OMP), then obviously, you don't care about ash content (as mentioned above) since none of the oil will be injected into the combustion chambers.

I personally like the synethic oils, but it does hurt the pocket when you change your oil out often (due to mileage or LEAKS!).

J

 

btw, anybody have some experience with Leading Edge?

I have a box of that stuff just sitting in my garage.
I bought a case since my friend helped out on the car when I was dynoing.

J

 

I think about a year or two ago I saw an FD in a pennsoil commercial using their synthetic oil. It was cool

 

Was it moving?

 

Originally posted by MAXIMUS95GST
"Father bought it for me Nov2001 w/100K mi. for $8000 (Previous owner's wife made him sell it"

NOW I KNOW Where you get your Attitude!!!!!!!!
MAMA's BOY

It's funny you think your a BIG man HIDING behind your DAD's computer .
Congradulations! You've broken the pre-natel barrier in immaturity. There are several members on this very forum who could give you a mouthful on judging people based on their financial, parental, occupational, etc. status. FYI, I AM a big man both physically and mentally. I'm 6'3" and I'm going to a first tier (top 50 by US News) engineering and science college (RPI) and I work my *** to the bone there. Never heard of RPI? That figures, someone of your mental caliber shouldn't even consider such a place of study. Ask your parents, they'll know, but seeing as how you are such a rebel you have probably alienated them to the point where you can't even talk to them, right? You're so cool. Everyone wants to be just like you and not the other way around. I'll be your daddy if you still miss your bioligical one. I shouldn't blame you for your inaccurate judgement, seeing as how I hide so well. I mean, look at that picture of my face I have as my avatar, for example. I made that pic 100x100 and less them 6kb so that you can't get a very accurate idea of what I look like. I also made my user profile very vague on purpose and I'm not including my street address in my location so you can't track down the elusive Jon. I just failed to hide the fact that my father bought me the car because he knows that I am so responsible with money that I would never splurge the cash for such a fine machine yet poor investment. I'm really ashamed of this fact and I'm obviously too lazy to remove it from my sig.

I bet you never even opened your hood in your car. Let me Guess, your DADDY pays for all the work on it too. Becuase you still work at mickey D's flippin burgers. I bet you dont even know what the HELL you are driving.

I had to Flame because BOOK mechanics like you, have never done **** to their car, but yet tell other people how it's done.
Don't wager the farm just yet, because I open the hood every time I refuel to check the oil level and condition. I also open the hood to show off the internals to those who are inquiring as to what powers the third gen RX-7. Unfortunately, I'm only a book mechanic and therefore I don't have the credibility to relay basic factual knowledge of the car, and I hope all of those people that I knowingly misled will forgive me. Perhaps that will all change this weekend, which is when I plan on installing my new Fuel Pulsation Dampener. At least I don't knock on stuck-up and spoiled people and then knock on people working "at mickey D's flippin burgers" IN THE SAME POST. Sometimes, I honestly wish I was working in the air conditioned comfort of a McD's. Instead, I work tough, outdoor manual labor in the south west Florida Summer heat for my father, which earns myself $10/hr (plus an extra 4 hours of overtime on Saturday, which pays $15/hr) and my father earns about $100/hr for my efforts. That's a win-win if I ever saw one. Besides, there is a lot of pride in the type of work I do. I wear my farmer's tan like a badge of honor! If anybody else who is reading this does also, then give me a "DAMN STRAIGHT!"

Since you have judged me with very little evidence as to my personality, I will gladly return the favor. When I think of you, this comes to mind:

Now was that either fair or mature?


Hopefully by reading this post you can become a bigger man mentally, but physically you have become very, very small seeing as that both your feet are now permanently lodged in your mouth. However, your fingers should be free to type up an apology to myself and anyone else who was offended by your ignorant and insensative comments.

-Jon

 

Jonske or whatever your name is, you have brought upon your ownself all this flames towards you and it`s so sad it has given you so much anger, even to post all the story of your life. In a couple of years, maybe more you will figure it all out.

DONT slander people for their opinions,

This is America the land of the free not the Al-Queida regiment.

DONT shoot your flames because I op not to use synthetics on my rotary. I know it will coat my catalitic converter. So i posted my opinion on this tread so I could pass my ideas on to others. THATS WHAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS INTENDED.
Good luck with that pulsation dampener in your car, keep me posted on your work, because if you need help here i am;... the guy you accused of slandering and had to take your flames. I would hate to see a rotary fan screw up his ride and loose its faith.

Take it easy and dont lower yourself.

 

Hey,

Jon Skeet.... Oh wait a minute i spelled it wrong.

Dude i hope that picture isn't of you, because you look like a wanna be Vanilla ice crossed with Ice cube... HAHA.

I also didn't ask for your whole life story. And if i wanted to find you, i could VERY easily as i could use SNIFFER( But thats way beyond your comprehension) to find your local ISP(Let me HELP you with that one.. Internet Serive Provider), and find who you are. I see you go around correcting people for mispelling. Why dont you look in the mirror. You can't even spell Congratulations, but dont worry kido i will also be around to correct you like you like to do.

And the only *** is see around here is YOU......

Let me close with this:
Let me correct my self you are not a MAMA's Boy you are a DADDY's Boy

P.S. You should apologize to the people here that you give futile remarks to, and then i'll think about apologizing to U.

 

To get back to the original question "what syn oil should I use in my '93".

I've switched over to Mobile1. The car feels "smoother" and engine temps are down a bit. I'm happy with M1.

BTW: BWM uses their BMW syn oil. All their new models have oil change intervals of 15k miles. Is their BWM syn oil something special, or just repackaged Mobile1, Redline or RPurple, anyone know?

K

 

Back to the subject. After much contemplation for a couple of years, I went from dyno to Mobil 1. Good synthetics burn cleanly, don't break down as easily from heat (better for turbos) according to much of the available oil testing literature. Mobil1 used to have a FAQ on their site mentioning that they have done extensive testing on rotary engines without any problems. I decided to use Mobil1 since it was readily available and stick to 10w30 to keep the oil flow rate the same as Mazda intended. Since I change the oil every 1k - 1500 mi, not sure synthetic makes enough difference to be worth it (although $25 is not too much to spend). Most FD's either break apex seals or blow a cooling seal so I don't know if it will help the motor (other than running 5degC cooler). Synthetic should help your turbo life though. I may move to Royal Purple since it is proven to give additional hp and I can get it at a speed shop.

 

Angry? On the contrary, I was very pleased at MAXIMUS95GST's post and jumped at the chance to set him straight. Every keystroke of blissful, yet educational wit was better than the last. If I was angry, then I would have resorted to REAL flames, better known as insults, which he performed in his very first post on the board. I also notice that he has an empty profile, no RX-7, and comes from the same town as you. I don't suppose you asked someone to stick up for you?

My original posts in this thread were not meant to be flames, so I said that they were flames. By doing so, I was hoping that no one would take me seriously. Low an behold, otherwise has occured. The question is, are you too sensative, or was I too vague as to my intentions. I don't feel like debating it, either way. Besides, this has gone on for long enough.

I understand the value of respecting opinions, but this topic is older than the fossil oil that you use in your RX-7. All of the arguments have been repeated several times and a simple search would reveal them all. So I figured that I would make some silly posts in this thread and still support my opinions.

I certainly understand why my response to your response would seem hostile, but that was honestly not my intent. I apologize for any misunderstanding.


As for MAXIMUS95GST. I'm not sorry that pissed you off. Grow a pubic and you won't be so prone to getting angry when you are wrong. BTW, I don't think BOOSTD 7 would appreciate you spying on his traffic.


Peace out.
Jon

 

I use mobil one.

 

OK guys take it out side.

 

Hey Gordon,

in your opinion is it a good idea for my dad to start running Mobil1? It's the original motor w/63k miles. I'm running Mobil1 15w50, but I have been since the original break in was over. Is it ok to start running synthetic on the original motor?

Thanks--

 

GoodfellaFD3S,
I now have 102kmi on my original engine and I'm giving my car its first taste of synthetic in the form of Mobil1 15w-50 full formula. I couldn't locate the high performance Bosch filter for the life of me, but now I will have another 2500 miles to search for it. I'm just going to use the stock filter for this change. If you want to wait another couple days, I'll tell you how it goes.

-Jon

 

Hey guys,
I live in the Middle East, in Oman to be exact, and in summer May-June-July-August... the weather is VERY VERY HOT!!! 38C-46C / 100F-115F, and in Winter it's 19C-29C/ 66F-84F.

What's the best Oil i can use? here we have BP Visco, SHELL Hilex, Castrol...
5w or 10w?
Synthetic is not good?

Your replys are highly appreciated from the bottom of my heart

Thanks,

 

This is very old synthetic back then didn't burn well and since hte car uses oil for lubrication it caused issues .


Modern Synthetic oils Burn well , so you are free to use synthetic oils .


Synthetic oils have the benefit of working at a wider temp range , so synthetic is better in that aspect .

BUT here is the downside , most modern oils dont have some of the additives that they used to have for maintenance , its that most newer cars dont need it , But us rotards benefit from these additives , and now the oils which still have said additives , are racing oils . Now what would this mean ?

best oil is synthetic racing oils .. but those are about 20 dollars a quart over here,

I use Valvoline 20-50 racing oil and change my oil frequently

If you want to use regular synthetic oil ,you can buy those additives from certain places and mix it into your crank case oil . BUT Its been a while since I read up on that . there is a thread on this very forum about this very subject if you search some more you may locate it . and they tell you where you can buy that additive which will protect your bearings

 

For you, 20w50 or 15w50. Most good brands will suffice. Try and find some Mobil1 15w50 as it has high ZDDP. Change at 3,000 or so b/c the rotary tends to dilute the oil with fuel thinning it out - Unless you do Oil Analysis that shows your oil isn't getting thinned out by fuel.