Viton Hoses and Solenoids - Help
10-19-05, 10:14 AM
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Viton Hoses and Solenoids - Help
I am was experiencing turbo problems so I have decided to replace all the vacuum hoses with Viton products and while in there verify that all solenoids are working properly along with all the check valves.
Now having said that, I do have a question for those of you that have used Viton tubing. I ordered Viton vacuum Hoses from McMaster-Carr. 4mm and 6mm Viton Shore 60A "Firm", they also have 75 A and 90A products that have a “Hard” Durometer. These hose are 1 mm think, very thin unlike silicone hoses and once I looked at them I got concern about kinks in them when bent in u-shape. Since I was concerned about this, I tried or simulated one of those tight u loop connections and even before I got to the full u shape the walls collapsed and kinked it. I am wondering If should have ordered maybe the 75 A or 90A or in other words, maybe I ordered the wrong type durometer. Is there maybe a stronger or thicker wall Viton Hose? Please advise, and for those of you that are going to refer me to previous write ups, etc. I have read a bunch of info some people love them some experience the same problem.
While on this topic, I have decided to check all the solenoids and on my initial run, I found three solenoids not functioning properly when 12v applied. I then shook them and sort of hit them against my work table to only find out to be working okay at that given time. Has anyone else experience this? If so, did you go ahead and replaced them anyways to prevent them from sticking in the future? I also, pressure test them and they are working fine.... just not sure if I should leave well alone... the turbos were not working correctly and this is why I am doing a vacuum job replacement.
Any help or advise will be greatly appreciated.
Jay
Now having said that, I do have a question for those of you that have used Viton tubing. I ordered Viton vacuum Hoses from McMaster-Carr. 4mm and 6mm Viton Shore 60A "Firm", they also have 75 A and 90A products that have a “Hard” Durometer. These hose are 1 mm think, very thin unlike silicone hoses and once I looked at them I got concern about kinks in them when bent in u-shape. Since I was concerned about this, I tried or simulated one of those tight u loop connections and even before I got to the full u shape the walls collapsed and kinked it. I am wondering If should have ordered maybe the 75 A or 90A or in other words, maybe I ordered the wrong type durometer. Is there maybe a stronger or thicker wall Viton Hose? Please advise, and for those of you that are going to refer me to previous write ups, etc. I have read a bunch of info some people love them some experience the same problem.
While on this topic, I have decided to check all the solenoids and on my initial run, I found three solenoids not functioning properly when 12v applied. I then shook them and sort of hit them against my work table to only find out to be working okay at that given time. Has anyone else experience this? If so, did you go ahead and replaced them anyways to prevent them from sticking in the future? I also, pressure test them and they are working fine.... just not sure if I should leave well alone... the turbos were not working correctly and this is why I am doing a vacuum job replacement.
Any help or advise will be greatly appreciated.
Jay
10-19-05, 10:29 AM
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I know the main problem to the solenoids is the heat trasmitted on top of the engine,, it kills the mechanism making them stick,,, But ive also read of a guy on here buying new replacements from mazda and haveing some of them not working correctly <(NOT GOOD),#
Im about to rip apart my solenoid rack in the near future,,,,im planning to to just buy 10 second hand solenoids cheap,,,,and check them over and over to get the best ones (i also have turbo running problems). Theres a really good write up on here somewhere about how to check the solenoids correctly because i beleive that some of the solenoids can get through the mazda manual checks yet still be faulty.
Then theres the alternative,, a smart guy on here has come up with a custom replacment solenoid system,,, i saw one for sale on the 3rd gen sale section last week.. completly moves the solenoids to where the ABS unit is.
Now to the viton hoses,,, kinks in the tubes are no good,, i used silicone tubing which has thick walls and experienced no problems with kinking,,, ive heard of guys putting springs inside the tubes at the right point to stop kinking,
Im about to rip apart my solenoid rack in the near future,,,,im planning to to just buy 10 second hand solenoids cheap,,,,and check them over and over to get the best ones (i also have turbo running problems). Theres a really good write up on here somewhere about how to check the solenoids correctly because i beleive that some of the solenoids can get through the mazda manual checks yet still be faulty.
Then theres the alternative,, a smart guy on here has come up with a custom replacment solenoid system,,, i saw one for sale on the 3rd gen sale section last week.. completly moves the solenoids to where the ABS unit is.
Now to the viton hoses,,, kinks in the tubes are no good,, i used silicone tubing which has thick walls and experienced no problems with kinking,,, ive heard of guys putting springs inside the tubes at the right point to stop kinking,
10-19-05, 10:40 AM
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You need to order the English unit viton tubing from McMaster-Carr. The English unit tubing is available with an 1/8" thick sidewall, which is what you'll need to minimize kinking. You'll also then notice that the price of viton is very expensive!
10-19-05, 12:23 PM
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replace any solenoids that does not release quickly. here is Dave Disney's site http://rx7.voodoobox.net/ follow the how-to link to the solenoid test. read that document and perform the test. I advise you do a hot and cold test and test each solenoid at least 5 times each. I found only under this criteria did I find properly working solenoids. Replace them, there are all kinds of guys with left over solenoids from going single that will be willing to sell for cheap. I would go to www.hightempsilicone.com and check their viton hose kit, high temp has done his homework and fiqured out the right wall thickness and diameters. good luck.
10-19-05, 01:39 PM
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Thanks to all, and you are right, the english version 1/8" wall is very expensive $$$$ try $8.97 per foot for 1/8" and $11.29 for 1/4 tubing. So that pretty much sums it up for me. I will go ahead and use the silicon hoses and hopefully they will last me a few years then I may upgrade to the Viton along with an engine upgrade then.
Now what about relocating the solenoids near the ABS, anyone know who sells this setup and what is required as far as the electrical connections?
If anyone has upgraded to a single turbo and want to get rid of all those nasty solenoids, please e-mail with price.
Thanks again.
Now what about relocating the solenoids near the ABS, anyone know who sells this setup and what is required as far as the electrical connections?
If anyone has upgraded to a single turbo and want to get rid of all those nasty solenoids, please e-mail with price.
Thanks again.
10-19-05, 01:54 PM
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Place your ad here...
Originally Posted by superfastrx7
Now what about relocating the solenoids near the ABS, anyone know who sells this setup and what is required as far as the electrical connections?
https://www.rx7club.com/group-buy-center-69/gb-custom-solenoid-replacement-447238/
10-19-05, 02:10 PM
#7
High Temp Silicone developed his Viton hoses and had them extruded specifically for this application. They are very thick and sturdy, and really need no zip-ties since they grip the tubes so well, and they are more affordable than the McMaster-Carr stuff when I last checked.
If you use the McMaster-Carr stuff, like Rynberg said you must get the 1/8" thick wall stuff. I have samples of the metric sizes and they will not work for this application. I can bend the HTS Viton down to a 1" diameter without kinking, and I think that's a reasonable criteria. Otherwise you'll have trouble with the lines that do a u-turn right against the ignition coil box. If you already bought a bunch, hopefully they will accept a return on it.
Overall, I feel that good silicone is a great solution too. I replaced the silicone and stock rubber in mine for the Viton. And the Viton was much better, but now I think I was comparing it to really crappy silicone tubing. All the other examples of silicone tubing I've seen since then is much better stuff than the silicone I took out of my car. I don't know where the previous owner of my car bought that silicone tubing, but Baker Precision, HighTempSilicone, Hose Techniques, etc are different and better stuff.
I think the approach of buying a set of used solenoids and testing both yours and the extras for the best ones is a good approach. The cost to buy a good Mityvac pays for itself quickly since new Mazda solenoids are $60/ea. I find about 2/3 of the used solenoids I have are perfectly good, and since they're mostly interchangeable you'll be fine. As for sticking solenoids that work after getting unstuck, it's your call. I think once the insides are contaminated they will probably stick again, but it's possible the dirt gets blown out during testing.
Dave
If you use the McMaster-Carr stuff, like Rynberg said you must get the 1/8" thick wall stuff. I have samples of the metric sizes and they will not work for this application. I can bend the HTS Viton down to a 1" diameter without kinking, and I think that's a reasonable criteria. Otherwise you'll have trouble with the lines that do a u-turn right against the ignition coil box. If you already bought a bunch, hopefully they will accept a return on it.
Overall, I feel that good silicone is a great solution too. I replaced the silicone and stock rubber in mine for the Viton. And the Viton was much better, but now I think I was comparing it to really crappy silicone tubing. All the other examples of silicone tubing I've seen since then is much better stuff than the silicone I took out of my car. I don't know where the previous owner of my car bought that silicone tubing, but Baker Precision, HighTempSilicone, Hose Techniques, etc are different and better stuff.
I think the approach of buying a set of used solenoids and testing both yours and the extras for the best ones is a good approach. The cost to buy a good Mityvac pays for itself quickly since new Mazda solenoids are $60/ea. I find about 2/3 of the used solenoids I have are perfectly good, and since they're mostly interchangeable you'll be fine. As for sticking solenoids that work after getting unstuck, it's your call. I think once the insides are contaminated they will probably stick again, but it's possible the dirt gets blown out during testing.
Dave
