tested the water injection at the track.
#27
gross polluter
iTrader: (2)
I have been running water injection for about a year now, 50/50 water and denatured alcohol. I set it up as a preventative measure and did not tune for it. I dont have any exact numbers but by seat of the pants I feel no difference and at the track my times and traps were close enough that I am pretty sure there was no difference. As for intake temps, all I have is the PFC displaying what the stock temp sensor is sending and I see no difference whatsoever. Where I do see a huge difference is in the knock readings on the PFC commander. I used to hit 70-80 just about every time I would really get on it, the knock would show up just as I let off. Now the knock rarely goes over 35. To me that is worth the effort of building my setup, reducing my knock like that is a big + in my book.
You people who think WI will rust your internals please explain how that is going to happen? First off, due to the high temps inside the engine any moisture is quickly evaporated. Next, there only thing in the engine that could potentially rust is the rotor. That thing is so hefty that it would take 50 years of sitting on the bottom of the ocean before any damage was done to it. Then with the carbon, gas, and oil all over everything in there I see no possibility of anything rusting.
And now for losing power due to non-combustible H2O in the combustion chamber, how much water do you think gets pumped into the engine? Rotary engines especially can pump a heck of alot of air through them, you would need one heck of a high flowing spray nozzle to get enough H2O in there to actually cause a noticible difference in output.
You people who think WI will rust your internals please explain how that is going to happen? First off, due to the high temps inside the engine any moisture is quickly evaporated. Next, there only thing in the engine that could potentially rust is the rotor. That thing is so hefty that it would take 50 years of sitting on the bottom of the ocean before any damage was done to it. Then with the carbon, gas, and oil all over everything in there I see no possibility of anything rusting.
And now for losing power due to non-combustible H2O in the combustion chamber, how much water do you think gets pumped into the engine? Rotary engines especially can pump a heck of alot of air through them, you would need one heck of a high flowing spray nozzle to get enough H2O in there to actually cause a noticible difference in output.
#30
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Tom93R1
Haha, I would be more worried about my exhaust rusting from crap I flip up on it from the road. Exhaust rusting is probably as bad of an anti-WI argument as a rotor rusting.
Haha, I would be more worried about my exhaust rusting from crap I flip up on it from the road. Exhaust rusting is probably as bad of an anti-WI argument as a rotor rusting.
#32
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Re: What Mixture
Originally posted by FD_Newb_1974
Zerobanger -
What mixture were you using in your WI @ the track?
Zerobanger -
What mixture were you using in your WI @ the track?
nothing beats 100 pct water for anti detonation properties.
#33
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Thanks!
I had heard of running 50/50 methanol/water. Same problem though, where to get it, where to store it. I wasn't so concerned with the cost, as it is only $4 or so a gallon...and I rarely have to fill my resevoir.
Good to know you tested with 100% water. I use mine the same way, pure reliability and preventative....not tuning for it.
I had heard of running 50/50 methanol/water. Same problem though, where to get it, where to store it. I wasn't so concerned with the cost, as it is only $4 or so a gallon...and I rarely have to fill my resevoir.
Good to know you tested with 100% water. I use mine the same way, pure reliability and preventative....not tuning for it.
#34
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Zero -
Any more input as to your experiences with water injecting kicking in around 4-5 lbs of boost?
How does it effect intake temps? How much quicker do you go through water?
I am currently running 100% water as well, kicking in around 10 lbs of boost. Sometimes I boost as high as 14-15 lbs or 1.00 on the PFC. I can also add that in stop and go traffic I don't soak more than 1-2 degrees celcius after some hard boosting. Aafter 10-15 minutes of hard driving in cool ambient temps (40 degrees F), I don't even notice my engine operating temps rise.
I'm beginning to question if I should turn up the pressure on my aquamist 2d (6bar currently), lower the boost at which my WI kicks in, or use a larger nozzle. Why? Because I don't often sustain > 10 lbs of boost in Atlanta stop and go traffic, my water resevoir lasts a long time currently ( don't have to worry about going dry), and my intake temps are NOT lowering when I am injecting water.
I can tell you once I took off my ground, so the water pump was running 100% of the time the engine was running. I ran through a tank of water in about 6 miles. Additionally, EVERY time I accelerated gently from a stop light, my intake temps dropped a minimum of 10 degrees. There certainly has to be a balance here.
Any more input as to your experiences with water injecting kicking in around 4-5 lbs of boost?
How does it effect intake temps? How much quicker do you go through water?
I am currently running 100% water as well, kicking in around 10 lbs of boost. Sometimes I boost as high as 14-15 lbs or 1.00 on the PFC. I can also add that in stop and go traffic I don't soak more than 1-2 degrees celcius after some hard boosting. Aafter 10-15 minutes of hard driving in cool ambient temps (40 degrees F), I don't even notice my engine operating temps rise.
I'm beginning to question if I should turn up the pressure on my aquamist 2d (6bar currently), lower the boost at which my WI kicks in, or use a larger nozzle. Why? Because I don't often sustain > 10 lbs of boost in Atlanta stop and go traffic, my water resevoir lasts a long time currently ( don't have to worry about going dry), and my intake temps are NOT lowering when I am injecting water.
I can tell you once I took off my ground, so the water pump was running 100% of the time the engine was running. I ran through a tank of water in about 6 miles. Additionally, EVERY time I accelerated gently from a stop light, my intake temps dropped a minimum of 10 degrees. There certainly has to be a balance here.
#35
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Originally posted by FD_Newb_1974
Zero -
Any more input as to your experiences with water injecting kicking in around 4-5 lbs of boost?
How does it effect intake temps? How much quicker do you go through water?
I am currently running 100% water as well, kicking in around 10 lbs of boost. Sometimes I boost as high as 14-15 lbs or 1.00 on the PFC. I can also add that in stop and go traffic I don't soak more than 1-2 degrees celcius after some hard boosting. Aafter 10-15 minutes of hard driving in cool ambient temps (40 degrees F), I don't even notice my engine operating temps rise.
I'm beginning to question if I should turn up the pressure on my aquamist 2d (6bar currently), lower the boost at which my WI kicks in, or use a larger nozzle. Why? Because I don't often sustain > 10 lbs of boost in Atlanta stop and go traffic, my water resevoir lasts a long time currently ( don't have to worry about going dry), and my intake temps are NOT lowering when I am injecting water.
I can tell you once I took off my ground, so the water pump was running 100% of the time the engine was running. I ran through a tank of water in about 6 miles. Additionally, EVERY time I accelerated gently from a stop light, my intake temps dropped a minimum of 10 degrees. There certainly has to be a balance here.
Zero -
Any more input as to your experiences with water injecting kicking in around 4-5 lbs of boost?
How does it effect intake temps? How much quicker do you go through water?
I am currently running 100% water as well, kicking in around 10 lbs of boost. Sometimes I boost as high as 14-15 lbs or 1.00 on the PFC. I can also add that in stop and go traffic I don't soak more than 1-2 degrees celcius after some hard boosting. Aafter 10-15 minutes of hard driving in cool ambient temps (40 degrees F), I don't even notice my engine operating temps rise.
I'm beginning to question if I should turn up the pressure on my aquamist 2d (6bar currently), lower the boost at which my WI kicks in, or use a larger nozzle. Why? Because I don't often sustain > 10 lbs of boost in Atlanta stop and go traffic, my water resevoir lasts a long time currently ( don't have to worry about going dry), and my intake temps are NOT lowering when I am injecting water.
I can tell you once I took off my ground, so the water pump was running 100% of the time the engine was running. I ran through a tank of water in about 6 miles. Additionally, EVERY time I accelerated gently from a stop light, my intake temps dropped a minimum of 10 degrees. There certainly has to be a balance here.
I dont have a real answer for you, but you should not go through a tank of water in 6 miles. I would keep it around 12-15 pct your injector duty. The DIY kits have some advantage as being very simple.
#36
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Thanks for the update. I think mine is working the way it is supposed to currently. The time I ran through a whole tank, I lost the female connector to the ground. the WI ran the whole time (home depot and back). I spoke with the engine builder and they said not to worry about it.
I guess I just want to ensure I am "optimizing" the use of the system. I'll play with when it kicks on as well as the nozzle size. I can also finally play with methanol, as I found a place selling it by the gallon.
I think methanol will give me more cooling capacity, but less anti-detonation.
Looks like the best way is to experiment. I'll keep you updated on my findings.
I guess I just want to ensure I am "optimizing" the use of the system. I'll play with when it kicks on as well as the nozzle size. I can also finally play with methanol, as I found a place selling it by the gallon.
I think methanol will give me more cooling capacity, but less anti-detonation.
Looks like the best way is to experiment. I'll keep you updated on my findings.
#37
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Originally posted by FD_Newb_1974
Thanks for the update. I think mine is working the way it is supposed to currently. The time I ran through a whole tank, I lost the female connector to the ground. the WI ran the whole time (home depot and back). I spoke with the engine builder and they said not to worry about it.
I guess I just want to ensure I am "optimizing" the use of the system. I'll play with when it kicks on as well as the nozzle size. I can also finally play with methanol, as I found a place selling it by the gallon.
I think methanol will give me more cooling capacity, but less anti-detonation.
Looks like the best way is to experiment. I'll keep you updated on my findings.
Thanks for the update. I think mine is working the way it is supposed to currently. The time I ran through a whole tank, I lost the female connector to the ground. the WI ran the whole time (home depot and back). I spoke with the engine builder and they said not to worry about it.
I guess I just want to ensure I am "optimizing" the use of the system. I'll play with when it kicks on as well as the nozzle size. I can also finally play with methanol, as I found a place selling it by the gallon.
I think methanol will give me more cooling capacity, but less anti-detonation.
Looks like the best way is to experiment. I'll keep you updated on my findings.
#38
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (47)
Originally Posted by ZeroBanger
Stephen,
As far as intake temps, I run this on my car all the time on the street. I can tell you my intake temps stay at ambient when I am on the highway or driving in the city. on the track I had it set at higher boost, but I can tell you my intake temps stayed at 44C for my first two runs, on my last run the WI was off and the temps went to over 60 after the last run.
It does eliminate heatsoak, thats been proven also.
As far as intake temps, I run this on my car all the time on the street. I can tell you my intake temps stay at ambient when I am on the highway or driving in the city. on the track I had it set at higher boost, but I can tell you my intake temps stayed at 44C for my first two runs, on my last run the WI was off and the temps went to over 60 after the last run.
It does eliminate heatsoak, thats been proven also.
#39
Need more sleep
iTrader: (1)
I will concur that WI keeps my intake temps constant under full throttle. Logging run after run on the highway the intake temps stay constant, do that w/o WI and intake temps will rise several degC even with the best of front mounts ICs.
WI also keps internal hot spots under control, cools internals better than excess fuel. The only bad is the decreased thermal efficiency which is where our motors are poor to begin with. So they really do want leaner mixes with WI to prevent overcooling the combustion chambers. I had to lean out my motor to over 11 AFR to prevent misfire with the WI. Now around 11.6 and going leaner, really helps turn up the boost and not max out the fuel system!
WI also keps internal hot spots under control, cools internals better than excess fuel. The only bad is the decreased thermal efficiency which is where our motors are poor to begin with. So they really do want leaner mixes with WI to prevent overcooling the combustion chambers. I had to lean out my motor to over 11 AFR to prevent misfire with the WI. Now around 11.6 and going leaner, really helps turn up the boost and not max out the fuel system!
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