I may be taking on someone else's aborted project, and I'd like to go in as heavily-armed (information-wise) as I can. Here's what I know about the car:

- Stock port FD that DOES run when assembled.
- Single turbo conversion, tubular manifold and HKS (maybe knockoff) wastegate, appears to be about 42mm
- SRT4 FMIC
- Stock ECU
- No emissions rat's nest

Most of the work done on this car appears to have been very poor, and probably not well-informed. As I understand it, the car will idle and run below ~3-4.5K, at which point fuel cuts out. Sounds like limp mode to me, but I've yet to pull codes. I'm guessing the yanked rat's nest has something to do with this.

I'd appreciate any and all wiring diagrams, FAQs, and tutorials any of you have, I figure if I can see what should have been done, I'll at least have somewhere to start.

Thanks in Advance.

 

On a car like that I'd take 2 approaches -

- Run like hell the opposite direction

- Buy it because it's DIRT damn cheap and you're going to pull EVERYTHING out of it and do it right.

When I saw SRT-4 intercooler, I knew we were talking about a POS.

It's just a shame that people will get FD's and hack them up so bad. I mean, just LOOK at the car - it's one bad-*** car, treat the damn thing RIGHT.

I can about guarantee that everything with that "single turbo conversion" is Ebay **** or half-*** cobbled together. I wouldn't waste my time with any of it. Tear it all out. I seriously wouldn't drive the car in the current state.

Dale

 

Honestly, I'd run the other way in your situation. That is a project car for someone that's been around FDs. I don't know your familiarity with FDs but I would guess that this is a project that is well over your current skill level.

Save yourself thousands and thousands of dollars and purchase one that has been done right. The FD is an expensive learning tool and I fear that you aren't in a position to accurately gauge the vehicle's condition ... which will lead you down a path I'm not sure you're up to.

I'm not trying to rude.. .I'm trying to save yourself a real headache. I could rip ever piece off the FD and Dale Clark could put it back together ... perhaps in his sleep. The question is, can you? DON'T DO IT

 

"Half-*** cobbled together" is pretty accurate. But I've got a chance to save this car, and be compensated for doing so. If I was a buyer, I would indeed run like a bat outta hell in the opposite direction. Or offer him $5K.

When I looked over it, the most obvious thing that worried me was the stock ECU. I thought maybe there was a precedent for that I wasn't aware of, but after some searching I see that's not the case. It's as bad as I was afraid of.

So really, as I see it, there are two courses to take.

Option A. Return to stock. Nothing appears to be damaged beyond repair.

Option B. Tell the backers that it's going to take a new EMS at the bare minimum.

Just wanted some people more experienced with the chassis to confirm that diagnosis.

 

You really need to combine option A and B. Most likely that single turbo setup is HORRIBLY done. A cheap turbo, cheap manifold, cheap wastegate, cheap everything. If it's all crap, it will all fail in spectacular fashion.

I might be wrong, he may have a top dollar Aspec kit on the car or something. But everything else points to cheap. You don't go top dollar and still have a stock ECU and an intercooler off an SRT-4.

Going back to stock may or may not be easy. In theory, you can bolt the twins and stock manifold back on. But, how much stuff was screwed up in the removal - will the oil lines still bolt up or did the previous owner cut the studs off flush in the block or weld things shut? Did they cut up the stock wiring harness? Did they cut a hole in the body so the ghetto fabbed downpipe would fit? (I've SEEN THAT, btw).

Even with all that said and done, does the car have broken and mangled interior plastics from a crappy car stereo install? Is the radiator shot? Are all the coolant hoses shot or replaced with tranny cooler hose from the parts store that will fail in 3 months?

You have to be prepared for the worst and budget accordingly. Like I said, I'd pretty much pull the engine and tranny, go through EVERYTHING, and reassemble.

Or run the opposite direction.

Dale

 

Everything you have said greatly depends on his asking price. If it's anywhere near $10k then stay away from it and buy something that is sorted. If he is asking a low price, and you are up to the challenge of a project, than, sure, why not?

Nothing is un-fixable... just depends if its worth it...

As far as being armed goes, if you decide to take on this project.... FAQ's and the search button will give you all the info you will need.

 

if you take the car and go single ... assuming everything needs to be corrected. You're looking right there at a BIG chunk of money - some estimate going single to be in the 10k$ ballpark.

That's fuel pump, fuel injectors, ECU, Turbo, intercooler, downpipe, manifold, fittings, hoses, block-offs, and maybe a tune. AT A MINIMUM. Not to mention all the other stupid things that need to be replaced (AST, radiator, exhaust, catalytic converter, probably an engine harness, and sensors - dear god don't forget the sensors!) and the countless hours you're gonna be spending on it all.

I don't know what'd it cost to go back to twins - but I'd honestly rather purchase an already good condition twin car. Going back to twins seems like a royal PITA... and honestly once you get there you'll probably want to go single within the year.


I am not trying to discourage you. Do what you want. I just want to make sure you know exactly what kind of situation you're getting into. There are plenty of us here with the disease. So, if you think you're game, then read a bit of the FAQs and then have at it.


EDIT: One last bit. Dale is absolutely right. You're gonna have to go through EVERYTHING. Particularly the engine and transmission. At least do a compression check on the engine and a coolant pressure test. Either of those fail you're in for another 2-4K before you can even spend the 10k on the single process.

 

No definitely a tune.

 

The thing that really irritates me when I read about stuff like this is that its resulted due to pure frigging laziness. A 5 minute search or one read through of an FD FAQ would have pointed out about 10 things wrong with what he was doing off the bat. Ebay cheapskates depress me too, buying chinese built tin-foil turbo kits. There are exceptions, but that $1k turbo kit is $1k for a reason.

It's not like we don't have the damn INTERNET to learn how to do things. It's not the '80's anymore. I'm a DIY type of person myself, and you will make mistakes, but people who do that kind of stuff should need a license or something before they touch a car.

 

I meant that in that there might be money left over for a tune. He will definitely need one.

 

I dunno, after going through almost the same thing with my car, I would definitely go over everything with a fine tooth comb. took me about a year to get everything sorted out and get the car on the road, granted I picked the car up for next to nothing though.

 

If you decide to go into this you better find another ECu like an Apexi PFC.

Main reason why the engie will not run properly (given that the rest is pretty much OK) is that the stock ECU needs input from the rats nest. You can remove soelnoids but you will have to replace them with resistors to 'fool' the ECU. Aftermarket ECU's, like the Apexi PFC (plug in) do not need this and can run without that input.

Again, given the fact that the rest of the engine (compression sensors etc) is OK, that might solve already quite a bit of your problems

 

Yeah, it's a tempting challenge, not gonna lie. I'm not looking to buy it, though, I'd be doing the work to help out a struggling shop (for obvious reasons).

Turbo, downpipe, and manifold all appear to be usable. I'm going to have to be careful with budgeting this project, though. Everything you've suggested is a great idea if I was going for max power. "Do it right or don't do it at all" doesn't apply to this situation, the point of no return has already been passed and it's a matter of saving the car now.

 

i find with the turbo cars (almost the NA's too!) that you really need to just pull EVERYTHING off the top of the engine, make sure it does what its supposed too, and put it back PROPERLY.

it does help to know what you need and what you don't as far as the emissions system/turbo control system, as they both live in the same place.

on like an FC turbo, just to pull it apart, verify everything (especially vacuum lines, they need to go to specific places), and put it back, is like 8-10 hours. its not so much remove and replace as shipwrighting. sometimes you pull it apart and find its ok. sometimes you pull it apart, and find stuff, and keep finding stuff as you dig deeper.

in japan they do chip tuning, and can use the stock ECU to go single turbo, but in the US we just buy a power FC, or keep the stock turbos.

 

or take a hammer to it and blame the PO for helping to destroy a dying breed of car by not knowing jack **** about what he was doing.

 

N

 

Save it. Go through it slowly. Take your time. Do it right. Even if it takes 1-2 years or something, it'll still be worth it.

 

Am I the only one who caught that a "shop" is asking the OP (who's not familiar with the model) to help them with a job, because the "shop" hasn't got a clue?

OP isn't picking the car up himself, he's getting paid to "fix" what an owner (AND mechanic shop) messed up...

I would walk away, but more because this smells like somebody is looking for "good sumaritan" to scapegoat for a busted *** car.

Just my personal opinion..

 

Ah yes, I did miss that one liner. Never mind then. lol

 

Agreed. I am a mechanic and i have seen this kind of situation come up. It is never worth it. Especially given this particular circumstance. Your messing with a can of worms in the form of and fd rx7. Do not think that your conventional knowledge of cars will help you much here. Modifying these things is a particular science. For example. With the stock ecu you can do 2 of 3 mods. Intake and exhaust, dp and exhaust, intake and dp etc. You get the picture. Notice, nowhere in there did i say install single turbo with factory ecu and drive it at or above 4.5k. Oh scary. They are fickle bitches. I finished a gt35r conversion on my fd a couple of years ago but seriously spent hundreds of hours researching before i felt comfortable with the outcome i was seeing. This kind of project is not for the faint of heart and will likely, at some point, involve doubling your original cost estimate to be done right. Yeah that last part is really not a joke either. Its nice of you to want to help someone out. But this is not the right situation to be doing that. RUN unless the current owner has deep pockets and the shop is willing to give them a crazy 10k quote. Not likely. So RUN.

 

No... They are not suggesting these things for tuning for "max power"... These item are suggested b/c they are NEEDED fixes to the problem at hand. So sorry if the owner cannot afford them. This is NOT a damn honda. It is an FD. They are expensive to modify in the correct way.

If the owners cannot afford the car, the best option for both the car and the owner is to sell the car to a responsible, intelligent owner.

I do not intend to be rude. Just honest.

This car at minimum needs an engine management system (haltech, Apexi PFC, or other GOOD system), the fuel system gone through with deletion of fuel pulsation dampner, cleaned injectors, replace the fuel pump, reliable wastegate to hold boost under around 13-15psi depending on turbo, all wiring examined, coolant system examined, oil system examined, new plugs, plug wires, and a tune. This would be cheaper than returning the car to stock twin turbos. This of coarse is saying the manifold and turbo are of decent quality.

 

true but considering you can buy a built single turbo FD for a few k more that is already complete only an idiot would waste their time having one built from already bad starting point.

 

Thanks for the advice, all. Maybe I should have been more clear in my first post, but I wanted to make sure there wasn't some procedure I wasn't aware of involving an OEM ECU, as some import ECUs of similar vintage can be retuned. My knee-jerk reaction was to tear it out and do it right, but I wanted to make sure I was as informed as possible before I sit the owner down and talk with him.

 

there is its just not done on this continent.

if you do decide to do it, double the estimate, and don't warranty ANYTHING.

you'll discover why everyone is so paranoid/insistent when you tear it apart. its likely the stuff that isn't installed wrong is bad, and needs to be replaced.

if you get free reign to pull it apart, inspect everything, and put it back together on your time schedule, then well i'd do it