Saintdog

WHO GIVES A ****!!!

Dang I hate threads like this! We can always take it a step further and say one car is faster or better.

Ok here I got one... Name one Supra or RX-7 that runs 6 second 1/4 miles. Oooops I'm sorry, none, but they have Chevys and Fords doing it... So that must mean that Chevys and Fords are all faster than the Supra and RX7 on the street/strip. Thats it I win! Nothing you can say or do to change my mind...

(Meanwhile plugging ears)


Nope don't want to hear it!



I can't hear you!



LALALALALALALALALALALALA!





NO NO NO!



See how gay threads like this are???

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

drag racing is a test of brute force...if that is the only criteria, than the argument is greatly simplifed...the Supra wins by virtue of it's engine displacement, nearly three times that of the 13B

but brute force doesn't always win in the real world, and certainly not on a roadcourse

I enjoy drag racing, but it's pretty mindless and certainly not anywhere near as technical as roadracing

3rdGenLuvr

Saintdog: ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! Good one!

JimL: Your one lucky bastard! I think you've own(ed) just about every car I dreamt about! I think I hate you!

Ive always liked both cars, they both have their pros and cons. Depending on what kinda driving you prefer will dictate which car better suits you.
Had the SupraTT been in the same price range I might of picked one up instead(might of). I still love the looks of the FD today just like I did back in '92 and no matter what some ppl say it is a competent performer even in stock trim.


Off topic:
What do you guys(JimL) think about that Z06 vs GsxR1000 shootout???

EricM

I don't understand why the RX-7 is even compared to Supra here in States. Back when I used to live in Japan, RX-7 is mostly compared to NSX and Evo, the Supra is quite unpopular there compared to the other 280hp cars. Ah well, only if we had Evo here. That thing is a blast to drive...

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

What do you guys(JimL) think about that Z06 vs GsxR1000 shootout???

I'll put money on the the GSXR1000, no problem....in the bike vs car track shootouts, the bike has always won....corner speed on a car may be higher (because of the larger contact patch), but as soon as the bike gets past the apex, the difference in accleration is night and day...goodbye Z06

P'cola FD

Unless they go agianst Mr. Ligenfelter's car.

Steve Jarvis

The course was actually Carolina Motorsports Park which is a 2.235 mile course. I would consider this a tight track. I would consider VIR full course a high speed track being that it is 3.27 miles and the Supra would have an even larger advantage there. Anything less than 2 miles is more of a track for training and isn't something a race series would actually use (it' more for magazine tests).

I felt very comfortable with the handling of the RX7 (I owned it for 8 years). I am also pretty capable of using the car considering I won the NC state championship in solo II in 1993 with the RX7. I can give you the e-mail address of an instructor (who was a Michelin test driver for 7 years on their performance tires) that rode with me at CMP.

I won't argue that a 500rwhp RX7 could beat a 500rwhp Supra on a roadcourse, but typically the Supra has a hp advantage. I will also agree that the RX7 (given it's weight) has an advantage when it comes to cornering speed and braking, but a Supra typically had bigger tires and brakes which help offset it's weight. A "true" roadcourse combines all the attribute we like in a sportscar. Handling, braking, and acceleration. If the roadcourse or autocross is nothing but tight turns then it doesn't show how well rounded the vehicle is. I am only debating that the typical street Supra is not at the defeceit most people believe it is on the track.

I will admit that an RX7 with same size brakes, tires, and hp will be faster around a roadcourse than a Supra (given it's lighter weight), but typically the RX7 doesn't have the same size brakes, tires, and hp.

EricM,

I kept the RX7 for about 6 months after I bought my Supra because the 7 was so much more balance, faster (since the RX7 was modded and the Supra was basically stock) and fun to drive. After I upgrade the power on the Supra I still kept the RX7 because even though it was slower, it was still more balance. Then I upgraded the wheels/tires on the Supra and it was like a different car (I don't know why people insist on putting 235's and 245's on the front of a Supra). It felt 500 pounds lighter and was every bit as balanced as the 7. After this the Supra was just as much fun to drive as my 7, faster, more comfortable, and more reliable. That is when I sold my RX7. I wish my Supra weighed 2,800 pounds. It doesn't.

Later, Steve

P'cola FD

Why don't you just rip out the sound deadening material, leave the spare tire at home, always drive with the targa off, rip out the back seats, carpet, stereo, dashboard and passenger seat. And go on a diet

Just kiddding, but how come the Supra guys don't try some lightening techniques. I guess it's just easier to add Hp than lose weight.

Steve Jarvis

The next round of mods will be weight reduction. I have removed the spare, but it was replaced with stereo equipment. My focus is on a street car that is very fast on a track, so I don't want to give up on the comfort items. I have already switched to a single turbo (saved 45 pounds). I will be removing the battery and replacing it with a 13 pound unit (saves 30 pounds). I will be buying aftermarket seats (saves 40 pounds). I will also remove the airbags which are not really necessary if you wear your seat belt and I use 6-point harnesses at the track (saves ?). This should get the car to under 3,400 pounds with the stereo and all the comfort items. Still heavy, but inline with ZO6 Corvettes, Porsche Turbo's, M3's, etc.

Unfortunately all the things that add to the reliability also add weight. Cast iron block, very stong trans, very strong rear end.

Later, Steve

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

good post, Steve...I wish there were more Supra owners like you without the attitude, and who cared about more than just straight line speed

maybe we can meet for a track day sometime...I'll be on my R1 (bike) though

MrZUMZUM

Help.......... I need to get off this thread.......... how the heck do you "unsubscribe".............

I feel like George Jetson stuck on the runaway treadmill...........HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLP........ ... I need to get off this Thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

jimlab

You'll have to do better than that Steve, the Z06 weighs only 3,115 lbs.

Tad

yeah.... this thread is really stupid,
it's been around since before I even found out
about this board, and just WONT GO AWAY

quit argueing you bunch a' sissies!!!

Steve Jarvis

Jim,

I know it's still heavier than the Z06, but the Supra has a back seat. Believe it or not this is my 600hp family car. I have a child seat in the back 95% of the time. You should see the look on face of the roll bar builder, when I said I need a bolt-in crossbrace and harness bar so the child seat will fit.

yzf-r1,

We will definitely need to get together for a track event. I have owned a 900RR so I don't want any part of your R1. I gave up bikes about 2 years ago (though my friends still ride). I have ridden my friends GSX-R 1000 with titanium exhaust, lap top programable ECU, and re-geared. It is a whole different ball game than my 900RR. BTW the same guy has a viper that made 627rwhp and 826rwtq. He actually runs with a GSX-R1000 from a roll.

Later, Steve

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

BTW the same guy has a viper that made 627rwhp and 826rwtq. He actually runs with a GSX-R1000 from a roll.

how do they stack up 0-60? with 820 ft-lbs, he probably has a little (!!) difficulty getting hooked up!!

that's another advantage of Supras I hadn't really considered....the back seat for Sunday family outings.... keep that kid strapped in tight back there! haha

Steve Jarvis

I'm sure the bike would have a considerable advantage 0-60. They went from about 65mph to about 130mph.

Later, Steve

jimlab

Just for fun, some interesting Car Test calculations...

1. 2001 Honda CBR 929RR
2. My 1995 RX-7 w/NA 396 LT1 on street tires
3. 2001 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
4. 2001 Suzuki Hayabusa GSX-1300R
5. 2001 Suzuki GSX-R 1000
6. 2001 Yamaha YZF-R1

0-60 mph (seconds):
1. 2.68
2. 2.60
3. 2.70
4. 2.53
5. 2.47
6. 2.74

Quarter Mile (E.T. @ mph):
1. 10.34 @ 136.08
2. 10.80 @ 134.46
3. 10.94 @ 123.58
4. 10.02 @ 141.79
5. 9.82 @ 144.33
6. 10.28 @ 138.65

30-50 mph, 2nd gear (seconds):
1. 1.31
2. 1.16
3. 1.29
4. 1.16
5. 1.10
6. 1.31

50-70 mph, 2nd gear (seconds):
1. 1.29
2. 1.14
3. 1.26
4. 1.13
5. 1.09
6. 1.26

70-90 mph, 2nd gear (seconds):
1. 1.34
2. 1.32
3. 1.56
4. 1.17
5. 1.12
6. 1.23

5-60 mph, 1st gear (seconds):
1. 2.92
2. 2.42
3. 3.72
4. 2.67
5. 2.51
6. 4.17

MrZUMZUM

No kidding........... I hope by posting this with the "email notification" box unchecked i will then be unsubscribed........you guys have great info but i'm just too exhausted to read anymore...................Pa, is that you........??

Pa: "stay away from the light, son"........

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

awesome theoretical numbers there, Jim...but do you think you can match them in reality? what is your current ETA on the project?

the GSXR-1000 is brutally quick stock, at about 145 rwhp....add a pipe and new computer you're at 165, no problem....it's hard to beat a bike for bang for the buck performance, too bad you can't get too many women to hop on the back and hang on tight! oh well, I have a waverunner for that

Yamaha will have a new R1 in '03 that should at least match the performance of the GSXR....the GP bikes are making about 225 rwhp with an inline four or V5 configuration (still 1 L displacement)....amazing

jimlab

Those numbers are very close, based on the actual weight, dimensions and aerodynamic characteristics of the RX-7, the power curve of my engine (done with Dyno 2000, which is usually a little low on horsepower and a little high on torque) and the optimum gear ratio for the differential coupled with a G92 T56, with P275/40-17 street tires.

As soon as my engine is dyno tuned, I'll have exact figures for horsepower, and then the only variable will be weight, but I know where that will end up within 20-30 lbs. which has almost no affect on the numbers.

My only concern is bettering the acceleration curve of the McLaren F1, I already know I can beat a Banzai 20B naturally aspirated, which was why I made the decision not to go with nitrous.

1. McLaren F1
2. RX-6.5

0-60
1. 2.81 sec.
2. 2.64 sec.

0-100
1. 7.01 sec.
2. 6.60 sec.

Quarter
1. 11.03 sec. @ 131.94 mph
2. 10.80 sec. @ 134.46 mph

0-200
1. 30.04 sec. in 6,608 ft.
2. 28.88 sec. in 5,852 ft.

Top Speed
1. 231.78, 6th gear, 7,481 rpm
2. 223.01, 5th gear, 6,788 rpm

Yes, they are only potential numbers, but my creation shows very good potential for the price.

Lost Time

Jim - @ 9.82 Cartest must have figured the GSXR-1000 had a 4' swingarm on it. That is a near-impossible number for 99.9% of bike riders to hit without bottoming-out the suspension and dropping the tire pressure in the back to almost nothing. Cartest must assume a perfect launch and perfect peak torque shifting to arrive at those numbers.

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

Jim - @ 9.82 Cartest must have figured the GSXR-1000 had a 4' swingarm on it. That is a near-impossible number for 99.9% of bike riders to hit without bottoming-out the suspension and dropping the tire pressure in the back to almost nothing. Cartest must assume a perfect launch and perfect peak torque shifting to arrive at those numbers.

wrong....the guy that turned high 9s for Motorcyclist is NOT a professional....they sacked out the suspension and dropped the tire pressure of course, but the bike was otherwise stock....granted, most people (including me) don't have the ***** to launch a bike that hard, but low 10s are very common with GSXRs at the strip, I've seen it first hand....stock tires, too

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

My only concern is bettering the acceleration curve of the McLaren F1, I already know I can beat a Banzai 20B naturally aspirated, which was why I made the decision not to go with nitrous

I admire your dedication, Jim...

as far as top speed goes, I can't imagine going more than about 170 with an FD....220 would be pretty nerve wracking, to say the least....high speed stability of these cars is notoriously poor (and where the Supra really shines, btw)....perhaps with the right add-ons it would be livable....

slap a big wing and some clear tails on there and you'll fit right in with the ricers, ha....hopefully some kid in his Civic would not be foolish enough to challenge you to a race!

the sleeper quality of your car will be positively second to none, hopefully you're going to keep the exterior relatively subdued (stock)

Freaky Monkey007

Would have to slam the car to the ground to make it very stable at those speeds...And put a huge gt wing on the back for downforce as well as a functional front air dam(think thats wut its called)

jimlab

Well, I doubt 200+ mph will be necessary. Against anything but a street bike, the humiliation factor should be in full effect long before then.

The outside is a total sleeper package, with an unmodified hood, Racing Beat twin tip for stock appearance, and unmodified except for an R1 front spoiler. I even decided to scrap the chameleon paint job (with the exception of the engine bay) in favor of a more sedate color. A better dark blue than the MBM and these are the choices that I'm looking at...

1. 2002 Corvette Electron Blue Mettalic
2. 2001 Audi S4 Santorin Blue Pear Effect
3. 1999 RX-7 Innocent Blue Mica