JoeD

the past two SCCA Solo II autocross events i went to...the few FDs (all of them stock, but one had 17x10 CCW's with 275/40-17 Hoosier Slicks) had no problem keeping the many Z06s that showed up under control.

its those damn Porsche 911 Turbos!

jimlab

Possibly, but you have to admit that the potential to do 0-60 in 2.5*, quarter in 10.6 @ 140.3 mph, with a top speed of 222 mph @ 6,900 rpm in 5th, as well as cracking 200 mph from a dead stop in just over 26 seconds is pretty impressive for an antediluvian, pushrod actuated, naturally aspirated small block...

*Car Test calculations

JoeD

Jim, what exactly is "car test"?? im assuming its a website where you plug in numbers and gives you estimated acceleration figures etc...but what is the address to the site?? or is it a website??

jimlab

Car Test...

http://www.cartest2000.com/index.html

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

"antediluvian"....good word there, Jim, you are full of surprises....I'll have to borrow that one for my creation/evolution thread in the lounge

the potential numbers are indeed impressive...if the car can prove itself on a road course as well as the strip, it will be pretty tough for anyone to question...

what I wouldn't give to see you humble a few pompous 911 turbo owners at their own game....your car will go largely unappreciated by the average beer gut drag race attendee

mightyslash

Actually Supras are rare too.

Protege Menace

Your the supra moderator, you should know

jimlab

Rarer.

~12,100 sold in the United States from 1993.5 to 1998 vs. ~13,500 RX-7s from 1993 to 1995, listing model years. However, of those Supras, only ~7,000 were turbo models, so the turbo Supra is about twice as rare as a twin turbo RX-7...

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

Supras (non turbo) without a wing look even more fugly....the wing seems to downplay the porkiness, kind of like a fat chick with really long hair

*sigh* why are there so many ugly cars in this world?? are there any designers with a sense of taste anymore??? PUT ME IN CHARGE!!!! most of these new cars make we want to vomit, have you seen these compressed bottlenose dolphins that Lexus is churning out these days? YUCK!! and we're literally swimming in silver colored, boxy beemers, with polished wheels and snot nosed drivers that have not a clue what real blood and guts performance is

SOMEONE BRING BACK A REAL, LIGHT WEIGHT, *** KICKING SPORTS CAR WITH SOME CLASS FOR LESS THAN 100K, IS THAT ASKING TOO MUCH????

until then, I'll keep driving my 7....love the Z06, it's just too common

MrZUMZUM

As they say............. TRUE DAT!

I didn't realize that Supras were that rare.......... so I stand corrected if so...............all I know is that the car designer hit that sucker with an ugly stick............matter of fact they damn near beat it to death............JMHO.......

Haven't quite figured out what that car looks like........it just kinda looks like they stuck an air hose in its mouth and left it in a little too long...........

I know there are plenty of you out there that love it............ what the hey............. Viva la diference!........

All I know is that when I see my FD............. blue steel woody that my cats could use as a scratching post.......

eitan

I don't get you people that say the Supra is ugly. I think it's one of the most beautiful cars on the road. The only thing that I think takes away from the car is the front fascia. It's very plain from the factory. Slap a new one on and the car is truly "complete." Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't see why RX-7 people can't appreciate the beauty of a Supra. I appreciate both equally, with a little bias towards the Supra rear. (few things are more beautiful than a wingless Supras' rear end )

sherwin

You're a fool.. the Supra will slaughter your RX7 in a road course, and not blow up too. Oh and it can go a lap without having to pull over and check everything out. I dont care about some ***** Autocross.

Mr. Belvi

Personal attacks and name calling are not tolerated on this forum, this is your first warning.

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

You're a fool.. the Supra will slaughter your RX7 in a road course, and not blow up too. Oh and it can go a lap without having to pull over and check everything out. I dont care about some ***** Autocross

this is a classic response from the typical Supra owner...pompous, arrogant, boasting words....if only all cars had a turbocharged inline six and weighed 3500 pounds, they MIGHT be as good as Toyota's almighty SC300 with a wing slapped on

dude, lay off the crack pipe, please!

Supras are fast, esp in a straight line (with a lot of boost) but they don't rule a road course by a long shot, they are just too heavy, and I don't care how many stabilizer bars you hang off it....weight is the ultimate enemy of any true track car (or bike, for that matter), PERIOD

those 500-600+ hp Supras really beat up on that little 300 hp (or less) RX-7 at the road course in the "G-Games" magazine test right?

jimlab

Do you know how illogical it is to assume that Supras, ALL Supras, cannot outperform RX-7s, ALL RX-7s, because ONE Supra was a few tenths of a second behind ONE RX-7 in a magazine test? Let alone the fact that Rhys Millen was driving that RX-7...

It's absolutely comical to me how many of you think that you inherited super-human driving powers the day you bought your RX-7s. However, the cold hard facts are that a good driver in a Supra, despite the extra weight, could stand a good chance of hurting you where you live... in the "twisties". Barf...

So let's stay grounded in reality, shall we? To say the Supra is a straight-line only car is ridiculous. Toyota's engineers weren't dropped on their heads any more than Mazda's were. It's Mazda's marketing team that were dropped on their heads.

Remember that no one car corners the performance world in any event or area and you'll have learned something. It's fine to like one car more than another, but you have to be realistic when comparing them. On any given day, the Supra or the RX-7 might come out the winner, and personally I think that it's the fact that the Supra is such a close competitor that earns it so much animosity around here...

mightyslash

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

Remember that no one car corners the performance world in any event or area and you'll have learned something. It's fine to like one car more than another, but you have to be realistic when comparing them. On any given day, the Supra or the RX-7 might come out the winner, and personally I think that it's the fact that the Supra is such a close competitor that earns it so much animosity around here...

I don't necessarily dislike Supras, just *most* Supra owners...they are loudmouth jerks, bottom line

Jim, you said yourself that the weight difference is hard to overcome....granted Rhys Millen was a big advantage, but let's not forget that the Supras were packing nearly DOUBLE (or more) the horspower....think that didn't make up a few seconds down the straights? oh yeah, you bet it did! I think it's pretty amazing a little 300 hp (at best) two rotor 7 beat those big monsters, regardless...

it's up to you to create the ultimate road course beast....light weight, superb torgue, and absolutely no turbo lag....hire Rhys and slap down some blistering times....let's see what the ultimate combo fo light weight and torque can do...."G Games" Part II baby....

JoeD

hey Jim, when your done with your car, i think you should ship it over to Germany and see if you can break the best lap record at the Nurburgring.

Enthu

iTrader: (1)

I always believed supras were a superior car in perfromance until 2001. When I used to Play Need for speed on PS, the supra had a higher lateral accel, fatser 0-60, and a better top speed. The FD was good, but I always had better lap times driving a supra. I base alot of stuff on video games. I played alot of 1080 snowboarding on 64. then I went snowboarding for the first time, and did pretty well for my fisrt time, the whole time i thought "hey, i can do this, I played alot of 1080!".

On rarity of supras, here in MN any sports car is rare. but one day I was driving my FD and came to a 4-way stop light @ CTY rd 81/HWY 169 in Osseo. on the opposite side a red Supra sat parked waiting for a green. to my right in the perpindicular lane... another red supra!!! I wish we had all been going the same direction at that light! but that is one of the only sightings I've had. I have seen 5 altogether, and 4 FDs aside from my own. well, I'm off to go race some SUVs and mini-vans tommorrow.

Register2search=(

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Steve Jarvis

yzf-r1,

"typical Supra owner...pompous, arrogant, boasting words"

Does this mean I became pompous and arrogant when I bought my Supra, or was I also a pompous and arrogant RX7 owner when I owned my FD?

"let's not forget that the Supras were packing nearly DOUBLE (or more) the horspower....think that didn't make up a few seconds down the straights? oh yeah, you bet it did! I think it's pretty amazing a little 300 hp (at best) two rotor 7 beat those big monsters, regardless... "

Were the G-games on a track that really had a straight or a roadcourse that you can turn a 1 minute lap time on (that I would call an autocross)? I if you can turn under a 1:30 second lap time with a street car, than it's and autocross and we know the RX7's have an advantage there. Also keep in mind that those Supra's were running turbo's more suited for dragracing and their spool time probably hurt their ability to have a true horsepower advantage.

I guess the only way to settle this is to have an RX7 and a Supra with similiar mods and have the same driver take them to the a roadcourse and see what the times are. Wait, I have done this. I took my RX7 with basically intake, exhaust, increased boost, and shocks to CMP and turned a 1:57 second lap. I then took my Supra with intake, exhaust, upped boost, and springs to the same track and turned a 1:55 second lap. You would have more money in the Supra, because the base car is more expensive. You could also make a point in saying for the same total $'s I could do more mods on an RX7 and beat the Supra, but this was not an economic question. If you purely want to discuss the basic cars I think the cars are very close on a roadcourse. As Jim pointed out the winner will be due to the driver. And a skilled driver can easily overcome a 50% horsepower defeceit against a less skilled driver.

sherwin,

If you own a Supra, please be more aware of how your personal attacks reflect on the Supra community. It is statements like yours that make people like yzf-r1 have the opinion he does about Supra owners.

Later, Steve

yzf-r1

iTrader: (1)

I guess the only way to settle this is to have an RX7 and a Supra with similiar mods and have the same driver take them to the a roadcourse and see what the times are. Wait, I have done this. I took my RX7 with basically intake, exhaust, increased boost, and shocks to CMP and turned a 1:57 second lap

I assume this was VIR? north course or south course (or both combined)?

anyway, I agree completely that driver skill is about 90% of the equation, for relatively equally matched cars, and certain people are able to push harder in one car than another becasue they simply feel more confident/comfortable

I'm not saying the RX-7 is the ****....it obviously has its weaknesses....but if you gave me a choice between a 500 hp three rotor 7 and a 500 hp Supra, I think we all know which car would turn the better lap time!! too bad there was no Supra in the C&D "Supertuner" challenge

and another thing, roadracing is roadracing to me, I don't know where this "autox" term came up...there are tight tracks and high speed tracks....a good car should be proficient at both, and the Supra is clearly out of its element on a tight track

in all reality, if this new V8 NSX comes out, like everyone is saying, and at a reasonable price, I think that will be the new track king

EricM

Steve,

There is no doubt that the RX-7 is faster than Supra on the race course. That's known already. You acknowledge that on autocross, the RX-7 has an advantage, right there we know that RX-7 owns Supra on cornering. Please don't bring up that Motor Trend article that always shows up and regarded by Supra owners as the bible that compare NSX, Supra, RX-7, 300ZX. I've got tons of article and videos, US or Japanese that showed otherwise. Now, what does race course comprised of ? corner and straights. The only way the Supra could win is thru massive horsepower advantage on a long course w/ lots of straights.
You mentioned that you've got better lap times in your Supra. That's fine, I know you're not lying. But maybe you don't turn the 7 hard enough on corners, maybe your skill is not there yet to wring out all of it. I'm not saying I'm more skillful than you. Hey, everybody can drive fast in straights. I know the 7 will lose in straights. That's probably the reason.

I own a 7 and my best buddy own a Supra, we respect each other car and know its advantages and disadvantages. Supra is more reliable and more powerful, RX-7 is not reliable and feel better in handling(note I say feel better, doesn't necessarily mean it turn up the highest g, big tires/wheel affect that).

BTW, why are you still keeping the 7 ? If I were you, I'll sell it right away since your Supra is faster on both straights and corners from the looks of it.

peace...

TailHappy

He did sell it......and I have it!

Looks like the threads startin' to turn a little nasty...Hey, they're different cars, different strengths and weaknesses....different strokes for different folks!

The bottom line is that they're close enough that 9 times out of 10 the driver's going to be the determining factor. Time to go spend some time at the track....